Jump to content
superboy

Any news on Lionel Sanders

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, superboy said:

Any news on what happened with LS?

He just said it wasn't his day, not the performance he wanted etc.. time to refocus, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm guessing 8 hour training days in the Kona heat didn't help...

 

 

 

Edited by zed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I like Lionel for his honest appraisal of things, I'm not so sure if his self-coaching philosophy worked this time around ...well obviously it didn't as he didn't come close to replicating last year. 

Being all over your data is one thing, but I think having an experienced person to monitor your performance or at least a second pair of eyes to assess your own training data may be beneficial. 

Will be very interesting to see his evaluation of what happened. 

 

Saying all that, looking at Lange's performance, I'm guessing he would have been hard to beat anyway.

Edited by dazmuzza

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said on another thread someone else needs to do Lionel’s thinking for him.

I reckon Brett Sutton, because Lionel would respect his hard arse approach to training in a way that most others male charges have not adapted to. The point behind my suggestion is that if Lionel does respect Sutton with the hard training he might also respect what he says about tapering properly and in regards to hydration and nutrition: clearly 3 areas where Lionel has lurched from one extreme to the other this year.

Added bonus would be any guidance with his appalling technique in each of the three disciplines.

Lionel obviously had an incredible aerobic engine and mental toughness - or at least the ability to absorb pain for extended periods, but he’s like a frog in a sock in terms of his approach to detail - its not that he doesn’t pay attention to detail, but he seems determined to relive every mistake made by those who have gone before him.   

Edited by Andrew #1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

As I said on another thread someone else needs to do Lionel’s thinking for him.

I reckon Brett Sutton, because Lionel would respect his hard arse approach to training in a way that most others male charges have not adapted to. The point behind my suggestion is that if Lionel does respect Sutton with the hard training he might also respect what he says about tapering properly and in regards to hydration and nutrition: clearly 3 areas where Lionel has lurched from one extreme to the other this year.

Added bonus would be any guidance with his appalling technique in each of the three disciplines.

Lionel obviously had an incredible aerobic engine and mental toughness - or at least the ability to absorb pain for extended periods, but he’s like a frog in a sock in terms of his approach to detail - its not that he doesn’t pay attention to detail, but he seems determined to relive every mistake made by those who have gone before him.   

Yep, as soon as I heard his hydration strategy I thought ‘Maccas already made these mistakes’. He went through the whole sweat testing scientific route, and it failed miserably. It wasn’t until he started the traditional and simple strategies like taking coke o the run run that he became able to compete at Hawaii.

Ryf was I to the coke on the bike!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, The new guy said:

Yep, as soon as I heard his hydration strategy I thought ‘Maccas already made these mistakes’. He went through the whole sweat testing scientific route, and it failed miserably. It wasn’t until he started the traditional and simple strategies like taking coke o the run run that he became able to compete at Hawaii.

Ryf was I to the coke on the bike!

He's tried coke, that didn't work out so well for him...

  • Like 1
  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kienle has an amazing swim, then had to have a wheel change in transition. He kept having minor mechanical issues on the ride - I presume rear mech - and then pulled up lame with a heel injury 1k into the run. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keinle had issues with his gears, kept dropping down to small chain. Thought it may have been due to bike getting water in electronics with the overnight rain in transition. Then had to change a back wheel. Had to stop again to open his brakes as the rim was wider than his normal wheel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More importantly... 

 

Will he be in Busso for redemption? Be nice to see him in a Trannies Trucker cap 👌😎

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, FFF1077 said:

More importantly... 

 

Will he be in Busso for redemption? Be nice to see him in a Trannies Trucker cap 👌😎

Someone should offer he a bed in busso. He might even come. 

On his performance. People have bad races. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Peter said:

Someone should offer he a bed in busso. He might even come. 

On his performance. People have bad races. 

Yeah right. It happens to the best (and worst) of us. Some race  days just suck. 

I once took a (short international) flight to a Sprint race, was quite unwell in the days leading up, then left helmet, chain and pedals at home. Realised as the flight was taking off. No matter, it would end up being an expensive weekend - I'll buy new..... 

4 bike shops later all over the city and i couldn't even source what I needed, bar some ultegra pedals. Sweating bullets from a fever I thought what the f*ck am I doing?!?!?! Mental. Just rest. Then I heard a friend was also in the same city for the weekend so we got drunk. 

Kienle should have just hit the tins with Frodo. 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a similar race in Canberra at Sri Chinmoy back in 1998. Fat, unmotivated and left half my gear at home .... Went to The Bin the night before and stumbled through the door as my mate was off to race. Awesome weekend.

Sometimes the tins call and you take it!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sanders had his best race in training. On race day he cramped up with analysis paralysis.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the question is. 

Did sanders fluke second place in 2017?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, CEM said:

Sanders had his best race in training. On race day he cramped up with analysis paralysis.

To be fair, he had been training for that...

 

1 minute ago, Peter said:

So the question is. 

Did sanders fluke second place in 2017?

Did Luke McKenzie fluke his 2nd place? Possibly.. 

Lionel has the ability on bike and run to win races but in quality fields he will be at the mercy of race dynamics nd how far behind swim bikers he is. I think he could have made a difference on Saturday if he biked like he did last year but given the weather, it might not have had much of an impact on the overall result...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dazmuzza said:

Can you realistically fluke Kona?

I think you can fluke performances.

I did a 5:02 in a half once.  Before and since never gone faster than 5:15. (38 half ironmans in total)

The course wasnt short I just felt awesome all day.  Didn't train more or less than usual.

I believe I fluked the 5:02.

So yeah I think people can Fluke a performance 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last year was a pretty typical race for Kona - hot, humid and enough wind on the way back to make people really hurt: I don’t think you can fluke a great performance in those conditions, but things came together for Lionel last year. This year he’s been over thinking things - lurching from one extreme to another: he really needs top let someone else do the thinking for him for a couple of years.

I think he can still win this thing. Let Sutton turn him into I the male version of Daniele Ryf - remember last year he ran 2:51 off a 4:14 bike with shithouse technique in both and there is ample room for a few minutes improvement in each of the 3 disciplines - enough potential improvement to challenge for the win, especially when Ironman bow to the end it able and introduce a 20M drafting zone rule.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the 2nd place curse of Kona. More who have got 2nd have gone backwards than gone forward. Check the results of the last 40 years.😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fluke a 2nd place in Hawaii, how does that happen again?

You just happen to fluke the swim and ride first pack, and then continue to fluke a lazy ~2:50run on your way to a fluked second place. 

Is that it? Is that how Luke McKenzie did it as well?

i think everyone has bad days and this guy found his.

But what really happened to him in my eyes is that he started doubting himself - all those changes he made were a reaction to his doubts, his over thinking and lack of perspective. That was topped up by poor results prior to Hawaii and that basically sealed it for him. 

Edited by Rog
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The good thing for the Lionel Sanders lovers...... is smart athletes only have one bad day. Hopefully this was it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn’t say you fluke the race but you can fluke the preparation. Habitual over trainers sometimes get it right and have a great day that they can’t replicate again. I don’t see you can get stage fright or over think it either, if the group is doing 260 watts which is normally easy for you but you can’t do it on the day then something physically is wrong not mentally. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty candid. Including changes, and need for an coach. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was incredible. 

So honest. 

 

Really really respect that. 

Definitely no wanky bullshit there. 

 

Holy crap what a guy 😎✌️👌

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So he couldn’t hold 230 watts on the return just to hang onto the bigger group?

i don’t get that. 

Plese was in that group and he averaged 310np 

 

B0DFF370-232E-4066-8199-4DCD97EFE7B7.png

6B786906-38DC-4007-81DD-18E61F60CE6D.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

PJ did.

A 9th with the fastest run of the day, then a fighting and fast second place the year before his win gives the lie to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

A 9th with the fastest run of the day, then a fighting and fast second place the year before his win gives the lie to that.

& done nothing since. Most of the other Kona winners in recent times have gone on to be multiple winners & won other races. I just googled the results from Kona & was surprised by the number of ppl who have won it multiple times.

With his recent (long term) health issues etc I would say he was very lucky to win kona the year he did. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

Wow that's raw hey.

yeah.

 

Total respect for the guy. I really hope he has a good 2019.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You got to feel for the guy and the pressure he must be under, that he knows he has fu$ked up and the immense frustration. I remember thinking man this guy is clutching at straws when he was commenting in a recent vid after training with a running partner ‘wow this must be how Jan trains, it all makes sense now’ and I was mate you are a couple of weeks out from Kona and you are talking like this, writing was on the wall.

I feel sorry for him, he is a good bloke. Always gives credit where credit is due and doesn’t pass the buck-blames himself only and soley when things don’t go to plan. Can’t ask much more than that from a pro sportsman.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, more said:

You got to feel for the guy and the pressure he must be under, that he knows he has fu$ked up and the immense frustration. I remember thinking man this guy is clutching at straws when he was commenting in a recent vid after training with a running partner ‘wow this must be how Jan trains, it all makes sense now’ and I was mate you are a couple of weeks out from Kona and you are talking like this, writing was on the wall.

 

Yeah I was thinking the same. Watching some of his training videos and how he was flipping out after his poor race at Mount-Tremblant. He desperately needs a coach, nutritionist etc He seems to be flying by the seat of his pants, winging it half the time. Didn't he wear a camelbak at Kona a few years ago?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, zed said:

Yeah I was thinking the same. Watching some of his training videos and how he was flipping out after his poor race at Mount-Tremblant. He desperately needs a coach, nutritionist etc He seems to be flying by the seat of his pants, winging it half the time. Didn't he wear a camelbak at Kona a few years ago?

i think first year he did it, he wore a camelbak and had a better swimmer slowing and waiting for him to pull him around faster... he has come a long way since then...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its raw but you can't feel too sorry for him, I'm sure he said similar things last time. Everyone has being telling him to get a coach and there is no need for him to be making these mistakes. The information is out there and people want to help him.

He just needs to find someone he can trust and listen to them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First thing is homeboy needs to wax that chest salad, thats an absolute disgrace 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, yoyo said:

First thing is homeboy needs to wax that chest salad, thats an absolute disgrace 

That's what men look like Yo 

 

Who would be good for him? Coach wise? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we need to look through this with a 'Lionel the human' filter though.  i share a few parallels with him personally that I wont go into, but look past him as an athlete for a moment and his mistakes make a lot of sense.

He is a late developing professional athlete who hasn't gone through ITU. He started triathlon as an adult age grouper and has developed from there, so the whole structured training thing is new to him compared to say an ex swimmer who spend 1200km a week in the pool since birth like some, or athletes who have come through national scholarship programs etc.

But most importantly he is a recovering (recovered??) substance abuser and suicide survivor.  Those things tell me through experience his personality deals with every problem 'in excess'.  He would have massive highs, massive lows. Massive swings of motivation an massive swings in priority, all of which have been seen through hi youtube channel and various podcast interviews et. I remember him telling the story of a conversation with Sebi after his second Kona - Sebi said, 'look at your training from the first time, and look at your training from the second. Both are at extremes, find something in the middle and you will be close.' Next time out he leads the majority of the marathon and finishes second.

Firstly, I think his attitude towards a coach is great. I think that could be the things required to get him into the top 3-4 consistently.

But far more importantly, I hope he has someone good to talk to about his mental state right now. While you wouldnt be putting him 'on watch', I think he needs to get his balance right in his own head before a coach will be able to make the most of his talents - and the last few moths have very very obviously given him a big beating.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The new guy said:

But most importantly he is a recovering (recovered??) substance abuser and suicide survivor.  Those things tell me through experience his personality deals with every problem 'in excess'.

This. That is why I said he should go to Sutton: Sutton will get him to do the uber hard workouts, but then tell him when to stop. Because Sutton will punish him doing the hard stuff Lionel might actually respect him enough to agree to the other stuff that is required.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Dave Scott in Boulder. He played more of a mentor role to Chrissie when she left Sutton (at least from her book).


That could be the balance that has the respected voice, allows him to still live in North America, get him into training group training while still letting him run some of his own stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Lionel is a man of faith. I'm tipping he won't work with someone who commited a sex crime.

There is that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, yoyo said:

 

EC4F1B1F-1BE2-425A-B17D-023E254235BB.jpeg

Is he going to wear white?

Edited by FatPom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×