Jump to content
superboy

Any news on Lionel Sanders

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Is he going to wear white?

He already does. When his sponsors desert him after his shock result he’ll be in all white - as coach yo-yo ordered.

Having freed himself from the yolk of Louis Garnaeu he’ll begin wind testing on an all white Specialised Transitions with unobtainium bearings next week.

Edited by Andrew #1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure he can ever win Kona. Lange is flying, Frodo will return, Gomez will get stronger, Brownlee etc 

He's 7 mins behind the lead pack out of T1, tough enough to bridge that gap, but when they're working together in a train, nigh on impossible. And come run time his run split is at least 10mins slower than the top runners. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, zed said:

Not sure he can ever win Kona. Lange is flying, Frodo will return, Gomez will get stronger, Brownlee etc 

He's 7 mins behind the lead pack out of T1, tough enough to bridge that gap, but when they're working together in a train, nigh on impossible. And come run time his run split is at least 10mins slower than the top runners. 

Agree. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, zed said:

Not sure he can ever win Kona. Lange is flying, Frodo will return, Gomez will get stronger, Brownlee etc 

He's 7 mins behind the lead pack out of T1, tough enough to bridge that gap, but when they're working together in a train, nigh on impossible. And come run time his run split is at least 10mins slower than the top runners. 

Possibly. However I think the real issue for Lionel is to get his ‘best race’ out of his body in Kona, regardless of whether he finishes 1st or 30th. One of Lionel’s internal metrics is to contest with other athletes, so it’s not just a case of some individual time trial where he just focuses solely on his own one square metre, however Lionel clearly believes that last year was not the best his body has to offer in Kona and I tend to agree. 

Turning to specifics he’s clearly improved his swimming in the pool but is completely inconsistent with open water swimming: sometimes he makes the second pack, but other times - like Saturday - he’s behind the third pack. With a full time coach with the requisite swimming background (most of the likely coaching candidates have such a background) I think he has the realistic possibility of matching what Cam swam - 3 minutes behind the amberger pack but in the main pack.

we know that Lionel can match Seb, Starky and most of the way back into town least - Cam. On a normal Kona day that should see that group off the bike 10 minutes ahead of the main bunch, especially if WTC bows to the seemingly inevitable and introduces a 20M draft zone rule - even if Lange can step up in response that change will take something out of his legs for the run and that changes the dynamics appreciably.

we know Lionel can run a 2:51 in Kona. We know he can run sub 2:45 outside Kona. He clearly needs to get his nutrition and tapering strategies dialed in. He also needs to address his appalling technique across all three disciplines - not necessarily to go faster on the bike or even the first half of the marathon - but particularly to be strong in the back half when the uber runners will be coming at him: if he still has enough matches to burn so he can hold 6:25 mile (4 minute km) pace out of the energy lab with a 3 minute lead, then he might just hold them all off. BUT, he clearly needs a very good coach to do this thinking for him with respect to this last paragraph. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Lionel totally can win Kona, but like most athletes who aren't Frodo or Lange, they need conditions to suit.

This year came 100% down to a runners race because the bike conditions took a lot less out of the runners, and didn't allow the super strong riders to excel in the normal challenging conditions.  He was only 2 minutes off winning last year, with a blow up on the run.  The reason he was ok last year is he got into an uber cycling group early, and they rode big time into the runners in normal Kona conditions. This year, neither he nor Sebi got into that rider pack due to other issues.

If he can get out in the second swim group - like he did last year, if he can get in a good cycling group, like he did last year, and that group can work together to gap the runners, like they did last year, he is 'potentially' one for the strongest runners in the 'cyclist' group.

His run in Samorin was awesome, where for the first time he was unable to catch Sebi on the bike (due to the first mistake of switching to a small frame bike after Oceanside) but still completely schooled Sebi on the run leg.


The problem is that he wont always be in that swim pack, and from there its really game over.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lionel can win Kona. The guy is new to the sport and making the same mistakes we all made when we first started out racing. He's just making them as a pro. He's new to the sport.  Look how many times Macca raced Kona & failed. I read in his book he went and spoke with a body builder to get tips on how to win Kona.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a tough gig when you judge success as winning the world championships, especially in a sport where you have limited (to no) control over your competition. As @Andrew #1 said, the goal has to be to get his best effort out on the day. Will that ever be enough on the day Kona rolls around? Who knows. 

I love his honesty, but I do wonder if it gives an edge to his competition.

At very least he is an entertaining personality for the sport. Keen to watch it continue to unfold. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, zed said:

Not sure he can ever win Kona. Lange is flying, Frodo will return, Gomez will get stronger, Brownlee etc 

He's 7 mins behind the lead pack out of T1, tough enough to bridge that gap, but when they're working together in a train, nigh on impossible. And come run time his run split is at least 10mins slower than the top runners. 

With wurf swimming better it is really hard for him to bridge back up and then pass and get a lead.

Swimming is just super hard to improve from where he is to being a main pack swimmer, the guys ahead all swam as juniors and have brilliant technique. This year the swim seemed to stay together, throw brownlee and Frodo in the mix and I expect the whole thing to get strung out.

I really could see Frodo going off the front with Amberger and holding on to win the race in 2019, brownlee will be able to go with those two and is a very strong biker over 70.3 so he might be able to go with them on the bike too, Gomez will be stronger next year also.

Sanders is going to need a day that is really hot and really windy to make it super hard for everyone else to have a chance.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gilliga said:

With wurf swimming better it is really hard for him to bridge back up and then pass and get a lead.

Swimming is just super hard to improve from where he is to being a main pack swimmer, the guys ahead all swam as juniors and have brilliant technique. This year the swim seemed to stay together, throw brownlee and Frodo in the mix and I expect the whole thing to get strung out.

I really could see Frodo going off the front with Amberger and holding on to win the race in 2019, brownlee will be able to go with those two and is a very strong biker over 70.3 so he might be able to go with them on the bike too, Gomez will be stronger next year also.

Sanders is going to need a day that is really hot and really windy to make it super hard for everyone else to have a chance.

 

 

Yeah he's never going to be a gun swimmer. 

I'd love the guy to win, but the only way he can is if a number of the top guys are out injured or have bad days or IM clamp down on the drafting. No idea how close together these trains are and for how long, but looking at some of the photos it's little more than 4 or 5m. If they're allowed to race like that, unfettered, there is zero chance of someone not part of the train catching them and hitting T2 relatively fresh. Candles will get burnt.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gilliga said:

really could see Frodo going off the front with Amberger and holding on to win the race in 2019, brownlee will be able to go with those two and is a very strong biker over 70.3 so he might be able to go with them on the bike too, Gomez will be stronger next year also.

Frodo only has one more year in the sport more than likely. I don’t think we’ll see either Brownlee step up to full Ironman distance (as opposed to dabbling in 70.3) until after the Tokyo Olympic campaign and then they’d need a 2 year build before debuting (like Frodo, Crowie and Michelle all took two years to debut in Kona after their last ITU campaign). Gomez is a 50-50 proposition to go back to ITU and have one more crack at the olympics as well. So we are really talking 2021 or 2022 before those athletes will likely feature. In between Frodo retiring and the next big ITU Star to emerge Lionel could well have 2-3 good years to crack Kona.

Further, save for Tim O’Donnell, no one from the amberger swim group placed in the top 10 at the finish - so the group that Lionel needs to aim for is the one that trickled in from 49.45 to 51.30 - he should be able to improve his swim to make that group. Especially with a decent coach with the requisite swim pedigree.

Edited by Andrew #1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would Brownlee need a 2 year build? His volume is and always has been very high, higher volume than a lot of the long course top guys, close to 40 hours a week.   

Edited by zed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, zed said:

Why would Brownlee need a 2 year build? His volume is and always has been very high, higher volume than a lot of the long course top guys, close to 40 hours a week.   

He needs to change the way he is training, not so much the volume. It's very different training for IM compared to an all out effort in a foot race of the ITU. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, willie said:

He needs to change the way he is training, not so much the volume. It's very different training for IM compared to an all out effort in a foot race of the ITU. 

A while back the great man Lance referred to itu as a shampoo followed by a group ride and a fast 10km.. given race dynamics from the weekend he'd just need to learn to run a bit longer.. 😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, pieman said:

A while back the great man Lance referred to itu as a shampoo followed by a group ride and a fast 10km.. given race dynamics from the weekend he'd just need to learn to run a bit longer.. 😁

It’s taken Gomez two years to make his debut. It took Michelle two years. Crowie had one last blast at strictly short course and middle distance course racing after missing the 2004 Olympic team in 2005 before committing to an Ironman focus in 2006. He didn’t debut in Kona until 2007. Frodo took two years after 2012 to step up to Ironman. Macca made the switch over summer in 2002, but didn’t have a Kona race diallled in for another 4 years. Ryf didn’t step up for two years after the London Games either.

Sure Brownlee might jump in at the deep end, but he strikes me as someone who does things the right way. Thorough like.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, zed said:

Why would Brownlee need a 2 year build? His volume is and always has been very high, higher volume than a lot of the long course top guys, close to 40 hours a week.   

He is too fragile and injury prone, and IM specific training will break him. His run technique is not suited to long course, and especially not IM. He should stick with ITU to win Tokyo before he loses his run speed.

Gomez is past his ITU best days and wouldn't be a factor in ITU. He's between a rock and hard place at present with ITU and IM. He's got more chance at IM.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alistair is never going to race IM.

 

johnny is a maybe.

 

straight from the horses mouth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, yoyo said:

Alistair is never going to race IM.

 

johnny is a maybe.

 

straight from the horses mouth.

I don't know what horse you been riding but A Brownlee has talked quite recently about IM and Kona. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, willie said:

I don't know what horse you been riding but A Brownlee has talked quite recently about IM and Kona. 

Isn’t it proven the Brownlees can’t run in the heat. If so Kona is a no no. Though he may do some Ironmans but I reckon Kona would be a massive question mark for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alister should stick to 70.3 and never do Kona. 

He would win everything. 

Race more often. Win cash. 

Sponsors would get awesome exposure. 

Fark racing 3 times a year. 

Mind you he doesn’t need to make a living from it. He’d be doing okay 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, willie said:

I don't know what horse you been riding but A Brownlee has talked quite recently about IM and Kona. 

Sponsor talk 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Isn’t it proven the Brownlees can’t run in the heat. If so Kona is a no no. Though he may do some Ironmans but I reckon Kona would be a massive question mark for them.

I reckon they would fear racing in Kona - they would have more to lose than they could gain 😕

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Alistair wins gold in Tokyo I reckon Kona would be a massive incentive for him. Would solidify his claim to be the GOAT. Even if he just one it once.

that would have to be tempting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Andrew #1 said:

If Alistair wins gold in Tokyo I reckon Kona would be a massive incentive for him. Would solidify his claim to be the GOAT. Even if he just one it once.

that would have to be tempting. 

Why would Kona be a massive incentive? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Why would Kona be a massive incentive? 

The full collection. 

Jan is the best

michellie Jones next. 

Mark allen

ryf 

Wellington 

dave Scott 

erin Baker (104 wins in triathlon of 117 starts) with 2x Kona 

i currently don’t even have brownlee in my top 8. But a kona win or 2 and he would move up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Peter said:

The full collection. 

Jan is the best

michellie Jones next. 

Mark allen

ryf 

Wellington 

dave Scott 

erin Baker (104 wins in triathlon of 117 starts) with 2x Kona 

i currently don’t even have brownlee in my top 8. But a kona win or 2 and he would move up. 

No love for TGE?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, trilobite said:

I hear Callum Millward is looking for a coach too?

If Yo-Yo can get Lionel, Callum and the Brownlees on his roster we will really see some action in Kona next year 😍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20 October 2018 at 3:07 PM, Peter said:

The full collection. 

Jan is the best

michellie Jones next. 

Mark allen

ryf 

Wellington 

dave Scott 

erin Baker (104 wins in triathlon of 117 starts) with 2x Kona 

i currently don’t even have brownlee in my top 8. But a kona win or 2 and he would move up. 

So Michael Phelps needs to win the Olympic 1500m gold to be considered the greatest ever? 

Not eveyone who races triathlon is obsessed with Kona.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bored@work said:

So Michael Phelps needs to win the Olympic 1500m gold to be considered the greatest ever? 

Not eveyone who races triathlon is obsessed with Kona.

What distance has Brownlee won WC at? Other than Dave & Chrissie, I see a lot of WC at different distances. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

My statement was aimed at the distance

I understand, but Peter's list was mainly full of Triathletes that have won at multiple distances in their careers. One of the only 2 that haven't is a legend of the sport. Brownlee has only won at 1 distance. If he'd won in SA that would be a 2nd distance & put him further up in my rankings as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/10/2018 at 4:41 AM, AP said:

I reckon they would fear racing in Kona - they would have more to lose than they could gain 😕

The Brownlees have a lot words thrown at them, ‘fear’ isn’t one of them though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FatPom said:

The Brownlees have a lot words thrown at them, ‘fear’ isn’t one of them though.

I agree.

Easy thing for AB to do would have been to pull out of worlds with only 4 weeks of training. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, zed said:

I agree.

Easy thing for AB to do would have been to pull out of worlds with only 4 weeks of training. 

4 weeks of training...That would be laughable. These guys never have only 4 weeks of training. So he has done nothing for 6 months and then trains for 4 weeks. Don't believe what you read........next you'll believe Kanye Kardashian is a real person.

Edited by IronmanFoz
typo (ever is now never)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

4 weeks of training...That would be laughable. These guys never have only 4 weeks of training. So he has done nothing for 6 months and then trains for 4 weeks. Don't believe what you read........next you'll believe Kanye Kardashian is a real person.

The classic Aussie reply "not doing munch", then smashes everyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, zed said:

I agree.

Easy thing for AB to do would have been to pull out of worlds with only 4 weeks of training. 

 

1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

4 weeks of training...That would be laughable. These guys never have only 4 weeks of training. So he has done nothing for 6 months and then trains for 4 weeks. Don't believe what you read........next you'll believe Kanye Kardashian is a real person.

Agree. If you follow some guys on Strava that came top 10, they are already back into it. 8 days later. 

I doubt AB has had more than 10 days off training this year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, zed said:

I agree.

Easy thing for AB to do would have been to pull out of worlds with only 4 weeks of training. 

Overtraining you think?

I mean, everyone here knows you can do an ironman on zero training.

 

In pink. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

4 weeks of training...That would be laughable. These guys never have only 4 weeks of training. So he has done nothing for 6 months and then trains for 4 weeks. Don't believe what you read........next you'll believe Kanye Kardashian is a real person.

He obviously wasn't sitting around eating KFC and playing Call of Duty 10 hours a day, but he was injured and wasn't able to fully train until 4 weeks out and still came 2nd. Some pros had trained for months, uninterrupted. 

 

Edited by zed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The doping stuff isn't cool. Keep those opinions off here. 

Comments RE convicted dopers are fine with me, I think it's BS they're allowed to compete again even though it's been proven the lasting effect doping has on your body. 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is pick your moment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, willie said:

The doping stuff isn't cool. Keep those opinions off here. 

Comments RE convicted dopers are fine with me, I think it's BS they're allowed to compete again even though it's been proven the lasting effect doping has on your body. 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is pick your moment. 

So in theory you could grab a few young folk with incredible potential, that aren't competing at a top level, take them out of competition, dope them to the eyeballs for a couple of years, then when the drugs have left the system, they become professional athletes.

 

Or just go mainstream and manage your drug levels properly & never get caught.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

So in theory you could grab a few young folk with incredible potential, that aren't competing at a top level, take them out of competition, dope them to the eyeballs for a couple of years, then when the drugs have left the system, they become professional athletes.

 

Or just go mainstream and manage your drug levels properly & never get caught.

Yep. It’s why dopers don’t join TA. 

You cant get on the list of even potentially getting tested if you aren’t on a list. 

Then the only day you can get tested is on race day. 

The half life of most drugs are under 24hours. 

They will never catch 98% of the drug cheats out there. 

Edited by Peter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

So in theory you could grab a few young folk with incredible potential, that aren't competing at a top level, take them out of competition, dope them to the eyeballs for a couple of years, then when the drugs have left the system, they become professional athletes.

 

Or just go mainstream and manage your drug levels properly & never get caught.

I was more alluding to pick your moment for commenting on dopers and throwing stupid comments and basically saying someone is doping with no proof. 

But yes, there are plenty of way that you can dope. There is a train of thought from a couple of scientist types that I know that think if you were to dope someone when they were young this would definitely have an effect when they're older and you'd have zero chance of knowing. 

There was a female chinese swimmer that the conversation was about and it's been an ongoing thing ever since. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/10/2018 at 12:25 PM, willie said:

I was more alluding to pick your moment for commenting on dopers and throwing stupid comments and basically saying someone is doping with no proof. 

But yes, there are plenty of way that you can dope. There is a train of thought from a couple of scientist types that I know that think if you were to dope someone when they were young this would definitely have an effect when they're older and you'd have zero chance of knowing. 

There was a female chinese swimmer that the conversation was about and it's been an ongoing thing ever since. 

This is why drug cheats should be banned for life. I’ve also read that say you take a heap of steroids and then stop-you don’t loose 100% of the effect, your body physiology is permanently altered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎22‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 12:25 PM, willie said:

I was more alluding to pick your moment for commenting on dopers and throwing stupid comments and basically saying someone is doping with no proof. 

 

Reminds me of some dick called macca who wrote a book and point out there are a lot on drugs but refused to name any. What a dick.

If you can't name and shame, then don't comment!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Niseko said:

Needs to start eating meat or all hope is lost for him.

Better ask yoyo what eating plan he’s got the colonel on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×