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Peter

After a swimming drill (High Elbow)

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During the catch phase, I've noticed my elbow drops and isn't near the surface of the water.

Any drills I can do to work on this?

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8 minutes ago, Peter said:

During the catch phase, I've noticed my elbow drops and isn't near the surface of the water.

Any drills I can do to work on this?

doggy paddle 

 

 

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Been a long time Ive been coached but isnt the "thumb to armpit" one for this.

After your hand enters the water as you pull back make your thumb touch your armpit before continuing. 

Just tried it at my desk and it feels like it is impossible to drop your elbow doing this (unless you are some sort of freak) 

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Wide arm catchup (i.e. hands remain shoulder width apart) looking forward and observing your hand/elbow position as the other arm takes the stroke (i.e. as you rotate). 

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Interesting question and a hard one to answer without seeing you swim. 

Sometimes what happens under water is a symptom of how you are setting up your catch before your hand enters the water. 

If your hand goes in shallow/too much in front it’s pretty much impossible to avoid the “elbow drop”. At a minimum you will need to push water down before you can push it back.

What seems to work for a lot of people is to consciously enter the water earlier, closer to your head (spear the water) and never stop moving your arms (spear and pull at the same time). 

Edited by Rog

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The doggy paddle drill is good to get a feel for what’s like to catch the water but doesn’t fix the problem. 

Catch up is probably the worse you can do as it actually encourages reaching out too far in front and you always start with the hand flat on the water. 

Edited by Rog
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I follow Brenton Ford from effortless swimming on youtube. He has lots of clips on drill to develop a high elbow

 

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1 hour ago, Rog said:

The doggy paddle drill is good to get a feel for what’s like to catch the water but doesn’t fix the problem. 

Catch up is probably the worse you can do as it actually encourages reaching out too far in front and you always start with the hand flat on the water. 

Disagree with you here - if you are keeping your arms wide & looking forward and watching your hand and elbow it ensures that you don't over reach and that you keep your elbow bent.  You can watch what your elbow is doing as you pull through with the other arm - that's when you rotate and when the elbow tends to drop...  

Interesting to hear comments about entering the water too shallow and having a straight arm - entering nearer your head is what I hear all the time, however if you look at the really good pool swimmers (e.g. Mack Horton), they have really shallow entries and straight arms.   pools vs open water I guess ???

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Just point your fingers to the bottom of the pool - imagining they're following a "swiss ball" from the entry to the catch position making sure the fingers are below the elbow at all times - then just keep the fingers pointing to the bottom all the way through

 

And swim often 😂 people who swim good swim times swim often

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23 minutes ago, AP said:

Just point your fingers to the bottom of the pool - imagining they're following a "swiss ball" from the entry to the catch position making sure the fingers are below the elbow at all times - then just keep the fingers pointing to the bottom all the way through

 

And swim often 😂 people who swim good swim times swim often

The swiss ball one is what head coach always tell the juniors where I swim. He's an Olympic swimmer so I think he knows his stuff.

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1 minute ago, AA7 said:

The swiss ball one is what head coach always tell the juniors where I swim. He's an Olympic swimmer so I think he knows his stuff.

What on earth is a swiss ball?

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really question the value in someone not swimfit doing drills.  guess it might help between the ears

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53 minutes ago, AP said:

Just point your fingers to the bottom of the pool - imagining they're following a "swiss ball" from the entry to the catch position making sure the fingers are below the elbow at all times - then just keep the fingers pointing to the bottom all the way through

 

And swim often 😂 people who swim good swim times swim often

I pretty much swim daily at the moment. Enjoying it. 

I just noticed that my left elbow is low in the catch phase. 

 

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1 hour ago, Merv said:

really question the value in someone not swimfit doing drills.  guess it might help between the ears

You may question it but you can build swim fitness through practising drills etc at low intensity - it's a better path than doing heaps of miles with bad technique trying to get "swim fit" - lots of short swims done correctly will pay off in the long run 😎 no point practising bad habits

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29 minutes ago, AP said:

You may question it but you can build swim fitness through practising drills etc at low intensity - it's a better path than doing heaps of miles with bad technique trying to get "swim fit" - lots of short swims done correctly will pay off in the long run 😎 no point practising bad habits

It’s exactly what brett sutton says. 

Lots of 1k are good. 

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Keeping up is a bigger priority in many tri squads.  Maintaining the 5 sec gap to the swimmer in front is way more important than any drill.

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3 hours ago, monkie said:

What on earth is a swiss ball?

Fitball, gymball. 

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17 hours ago, Merv said:

really question the value in someone not swimfit doing drills.  guess it might help between the ears

It’s the first thing I start doing when I get in the pool. Normally with flippers on until I’m strong enough not to develop old, bad habits from yesteryear. 

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13 minutes ago, willie said:

It’s the first thing I start doing when I get in the pool. Normally with flippers on until I’m strong enough not to develop old, bad habits from yesteryear. 

I also find if I'm "fit" but not "swimfit" I will push too far and too hard on shoulders that aren't up to it and gives me grief.  So drills are a good easy way to get the miles up without smashing the shoulders. 

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AP learnt a lot of survival skills during National Service training.

5 hours ago, willie said:

It’s the first thing I start doing when I get in the pool. Normally with flippers on until I’m strong enough not to develop old, bad habits from yesteryear. 

 

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On 04/09/2018 at 8:10 AM, Peter said:

During the catch phase, I've noticed my elbow drops and isn't near the surface of the water.

Any drills I can do to work on this?

I’m guessing that the main cause of your elbow dip is the placement of your hand at the beginning of the catch phase. Specifically, I suspect that it may be too close to the surface (ie. 4-8 inches below the surface).

Try this as an extreme drill - aim to place your hand 15-18 inches below the surface before starting the catch phase. I’ll bet that your elbow dip disappears immediately - although you’ll also likely notice a drop in forward propulsion from both the catch and pull phases.

So, start off doing 50M placing your hand 18 inches below the surface becfore the catch. Next 50M bring your hand up a couple of inches. The following 50M bring it up another couple of inches and so on until you find that ‘sweet spot’ - where your elbow doesn’t drop, but you can still do a proper ‘reach, catch and pull’ front quantrant. I’m guessing that sweet spot will be when your hand is between 10 and 12 inches below the surface.

Once you have established your sweet spot do 8 x 50 on the minute focusing on the mental image of where you are placing your hand at the start of the reach, catch pull front quadrant. That should set you up for your main set.

Edited by Andrew #1

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It could be something simple, Pete. If you want someone have a look at your stroke while swimming, I'm at Bayfit every Friday from 4pm. I usually have a swim after an exercise rehab session. The lap lanes are usually empty or a few slow swimmers. Just txt me if you want to meet.

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13 hours ago, Greyman said:

It could be something simple, Pete. If you want someone have a look at your stroke while swimming, I'm at Bayfit every Friday from 4pm. I usually have a swim after an exercise rehab session. The lap lanes are usually empty or a few slow swimmers. Just txt me if you want to meet.

Can you do before 3:20?

Trex, KP, Regie and I usually swim at 2pm on Fridays.

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13 hours ago, Peter said:

Can you do before 3:20?

Trex, KP, Regie and I usually swim at 2pm on Fridays.

Nah. I work until 3 on Fridays then have a physical therapy session 3.15 until 4pm in the gym part of the complex. Then  I'm free to swim after that. 

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