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New IMWA swim course = chaos?

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I can't remember if this got mentioned, but having a look at the new IMWA swim course, is it not going to be a complete clusterf*ck. 1500 people + 2 laps. When the first lot come round for the 2nd lap, they'll have 1200/1300 swimmers in front of them. Isn't it going to be gridlock?? Anyone done a swim course like this?

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If it was a rolling start, then yes, I'd agree with you, but with a mass start the lead swimmers won't be catching the field till fairly late, and they'll be very strung out at the tail, so it shouldn't be an issue.

You'll have to watch out for all those WA cheaters hiding at the buoys waiting for the crowd so they can skip a lap though. ;)

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In one fell swoop they've taken away the two distinctive things about the race:  the swim around the jetty; and the mass start.  What on earth would bring you to Busselton now if you weren't a local?

Not dissimilar to Cairns.  I don't think it causes much of a problem from people getting lapped, even with the rolling start.  1500 might be a bit optimistic though, depends on how they separate the half distance athletes.

I am interested in how it affects water safety though.  Somebody being rescued from the offshore leg potentially needs to be carted 500m before they hit shore or more to get them to what will be a presumably central first aid area.  I can't imagine they'd send motorised equipment through the onshore leg.

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2 minutes ago, Stikman said:

In one fell swoop they've taken away the two distinctive things about the race:  the swim around the jetty; and the mass start.  What on earth would bring you to Busselton now if you weren't a local?

Not dissimilar to Cairns.  I don't think it causes much of a problem from people getting lapped, even with the rolling start.  1500 might be a bit optimistic though, depends on how they separate the half distance athletes.

I am interested in how it affects water safety though.  Somebody being rescued from the offshore leg potentially needs to be carted 500m before they hit shore or more to get them to what will be a presumably central first aid area.  I can't imagine they'd send motorised equipment through the onshore leg.

Yeah someone pointed out at they'll be almost a km from the jetty at the furthest point. At least during sharkgate 2017, we were swimming close to the jetty and everyone was up the jetty ladders pretty quickly and efficiently. 

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Dont see an issue.  But raceday will tell the story.  Just focusing on training for now and will worry about the what ifs on the second lap of the swim.

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We will have the opportunity to bum slap willie in the swim and on the run! Happy days 

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51 minutes ago, zed said:

It's a rolling start now.

Maybe they should update their athlete guide?

image.thumb.png.e9d9d6c399d863e88ba1b8108f3ddf78.png

Yes, it'll be an absolute fustercluck.

 

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen

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13 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Maybe they should update their athlete guide?

image.thumb.png.e9d9d6c399d863e88ba1b8108f3ddf78.png

Yes, it'll be an absolute fustercluck.

 

 mass start?? - 1500 people trying to round the first marker buoy 280m out.... lols I'm sure they changed it to rolling.

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The IRONMAN Western Australia and IRONMAN 70.3 Western Australia will have rolling starts, while IRONMAN 70.3 Busselton (May race) will retain its wave start.
 

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I’m just disgusted you started the identical thread on twits 

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28 minutes ago, Peter said:

I’m just disgusted you started the identical thread on twits 

Who's on twits? Do we stop talks them. What's the protocol here? Hehehe.

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I got a refund on WA when they announced the swim change. I went for the 70.3 about 5 years ago and the course got changed to near the beach swim due to the shark sightings down the coast, so I missed out then and now not flying all that way for an otherwise boring course. Cairns and Port are way more interesting to race on.

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4 hours ago, Stikman said:

In one fell swoop they've taken away the two distinctive things about the race:  the swim around the jetty; and the mass start.  What on earth would bring you to Busselton now if you weren't a local?

Agreed Stikman. Was keeping an option of Busso in the back pocket as a return to the long game, because of these two things...and sharing a bunk bed again...

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3 hours ago, Bikebeast said:

Lanzarote has the same format and it works. 

First turn at Lanza is the biggest cluster  of all, especially with people swimming the wrong side of the rope.

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13 minutes ago, FatPom said:

First turn at Lanza is the biggest cluster  of all, especially with people swimming the wrong side of the rope.

Heh FP,

My recollection of IM Lanzarote which was a few years ago (and just checked and they still have the same course) is there is no first turn until nearly 1k into the swim (which was pretty leisurely by then).  The problem there was similar to a marathon where unless you got up the front it took a wee while until you actually hit the water due to the gridlock going under the inflatable start entrance - once in the water you were fine, but numbers have increased since.

A bigger problem I found re: first turns was IM Switzerland and IM Germany the following years where instead of entering the water within a 15 m wide area, you are now stretched over 200 meters wide on the beach (in a mass start) converging on the fist turn 200-300 meters from the start.  It was dog paddling for a long while to get your turn in there.  IM Forster was not too disimilar but somehow did work better, although was closer to 500m into the race.

Comparing Busso proposed Swim course to the examples I gave above I think it's closer to Switzerland example where turning that first buoy will be a problem, unless they do it in a more sweeping fashion like Lanzarote (which is actually has permanent bouys year round due to the drop off in the depth due to the edge of a shelf going from say 5m to ...long way down- deep blue).  It was kinda cool to swim into nothing underneath but look left and you see the bottom 5m down with a cliff separating.

The discussion above about heading back into oncoming traffic given it doesn't occur until after 1k into the race and is separated by 100m is a non issue in my opinion.

Conclusion, if a mass start, make the first between more sweeping than hard and it would be much better, but finally around the Jetty was so much better so I agree with Stikman's observation.

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4 hours ago, Peter said:

I’m just disgusted you started the identical thread on twits 

Always interested in what the Sepos think!

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6 hours ago, FFF1077 said:

We will have the opportunity to bum slap willie in the swim and on the run! Happy days 

You’re just mean :( you’d wanna hope I don’t run past you... 

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2 hours ago, GSP said:

Heh FP,

My recollection of IM Lanzarote which was a few years ago (and just checked and they still have the same course) is there is no first turn until nearly 1k into the swim (which was pretty leisurely by then).  The problem there was similar to a marathon where unless you got up the front it took a wee while until you actually hit the water due to the gridlock going under the inflatable start entrance - once in the water you were fine, but numbers have increased since.

 

Hi Geoff,  I was referring to his turn, which seems to be after approx 150 mtrs. All the overhead video I've seen looks frightening!

 

mapa1.jpg

iron-n6dzc80yprqg2nc52v8xspl22a7jr97h0n6jeumqpk.jpg

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Reminds me of the Port Mac swim 6-7 years ago. Swim out, do a loop and then swim back. In my opinion it was pretty bad espcially as people were looping and swiming through/over slower swimmers and no doubt lots of people cutting the course by missing a loop.

In my opinion, of course having never been there which makes it so much more valuable, they should retain the jetty swim and use an alternative as a contingency course.

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7 hours ago, willie said:

You’re just mean :( you’d wanna hope I don’t run past you... 

Hahaha 

Yeah I really should shut up.... Never know what could happen... 🤐😳😳

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6 hours ago, FatPom said:

Hi Geoff,  I was referring to his turn, which seems to be after approx 150 mtrs. All the overhead video I've seen looks frightening!

 

mapa1.jpg

iron-n6dzc80yprqg2nc52v8xspl22a7jr97h0n6jeumqpk.jpg

He doesn't mean the mayhem at the first turn. They've turned it into a rolling start (which I didn't realise at first). The problem will be that the lead guys will be turning into their 2nd lap before the last groups of swimmers reach that point on their first lap. The quick swimmers will be doing their whole 2nd lap swimming around slow swimmers, and not just a couple of stragglers late on the course. Additionally with no exit between laps, there likely won't be timing on each lap, so it will become very difficult to identify who has & hasn't done 2 laps.

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1 minute ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

He doesn't mean the mayhem at the first turn. They've turned it into a rolling start (which I didn't realise at first). The problem will be that the lead guys will be turning into their 2nd lap before the last groups of swimmers reach that point on their first lap. The quick swimmers will be doing their whole 2nd lap swimming around slow swimmers, and not just a couple of stragglers late on the course. Additionally with no exit between laps, there likely won't be timing on each lap, so it will become very difficult to identify who has & hasn't done 2 laps.

I/we were talking about Lanza and saying there is no turn before the first 1km. I'm simply pointing out there is and it's a cluster**k

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I will be more a disaster if there are waves at imwa 

Busselton surf might not happen often but when the wind blows and waves form, it will be a tough 4 k being hit side on. 

They still need an alternative going straight out too. 

Edited by Peter

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8 hours ago, FatPom said:

Hi Geoff,  I was referring to his turn, which seems to be after approx 150 mtrs. All the overhead video I've seen looks frightening!

 

mapa1.jpg

iron-n6dzc80yprqg2nc52v8xspl22a7jr97h0n6jeumqpk.jpg

Hi FP,

My recollection was the corner illustrated in the course map above was more gradual although I did get out there relatively early.  The photo above appears to favor a wider entrance to the water from when I was there which would contribute to the convergence to the Yellow rope which was really what almost everybody was trying to stick to which made it uncomfortable for the 1st kilometer.

Cheers

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12 hours ago, GSP said:

My recollection of IM Lanzarote which was a few years ago

I have a great recollection of you at Lanzarote as well. Something about the Green Machine.  :cheers:

FM

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2 hours ago, Flanman said:

I have a great recollection of you at Lanzarote as well. Something about the Green Machine.  :cheers:

FM

Right you are.  There was the Trannies km sponsorthon with GM on my back.  Even made a 2 page article in one of the Tri Magazines which I lost unfortunately.

Cheers

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54 minutes ago, GSP said:

Right you are.  There was the Trannies km sponsorthon with GM on my back.  Even made a 2 page article in one of the Tri Magazines which I lost unfortunately.

Cheers

Don't be afraid to contact them and get a copy. Probably one of the greatest things that Trannies did as a community.  Could not have done it without you.

FM

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3 hours ago, GSP said:

Right you are.  There was the Trannies km sponsorthon with GM on my back.  Even made a 2 page article in one of the Tri Magazines which I lost unfortunately.

Cheers

I remember sponsoring you for two Km of climbing 

Edited by FatPom
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7 hours ago, GSP said:

Hi FP,

My recollection was the corner illustrated in the course map above was more gradual although I did get out there relatively early.  The photo above appears to favor a wider entrance to the water from when I was there which would contribute to the convergence to the Yellow rope which was really what almost everybody was trying to stick to which made it uncomfortable for the 1st kilometer.

Cheers

Yeah it seems to go wide to relatively narrow. The folks I know that went this year said that slow AWA swimmers lining up at the front was also contributing factor. I think the lane narrowing is a bit better than it used to be. It still looks like a bunfight though. I watch this video a lot when but always wince from the 4min mark!

 

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9 hours ago, Peter said:

I will be more a disaster if there are waves at imwa 

Busselton surf might not happen often but when the wind blows and waves form, it will be a thought 4 k being hit side on. 

They still need an alternative going straight out too. 

Maybe run the swim inland from the beach. 3.8km out and back where we walk and pretend to swim? 

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The waves will be from FFF's 6 beat kick as he motors through the field.

 (No pressure FFForpedo!) :D

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14 hours ago, FFF1077 said:

Hahaha 

Yeah I really should shut up.... Never know what could happen... 🤐😳😳

:blowup::blowup::blowup:

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Stay positive kids, it will be great. Remember they did this for your safety as sharks dont swim in this bit, they stay over near the jetty.

Remember its all about finishing, not how you get there.

 

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I'm not sure why they do that. Rolling start at Busso, there were 3 or 4 "portly" looking gentleman right at the front, but you get swimmers in all sorts of shape and sized, so I figured they'd be quick. But gun went off and quick they weren't, they got totally cleaned up by the swimmers behind, swam over, smacked in the head etc...

On 16/08/2018 at 1:56 PM, FatPom said:

said that slow AWA swimmers lining up at the front 

 

Edited by zed

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Thanks FP,

I love this clip!! The visuals, the music , the drama....

Thanks for sharing.

Any one have any favourite videos?

I am a sucker for them. Watching with a glass of wine counts as training, doesn't it?

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Ms M said:

Thanks FP,

I love this clip!! The visuals, the music , the drama....

Thanks for sharing.

Any one have any favourite videos?

I am a sucker for them. Watching with a glass of wine counts as training, doesn't it?

 

 

This was quite good. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Ms M said:

Any one have any favourite videos?

This would be a great go-to thread on its own

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On 16/08/2018 at 3:56 PM, FatPom said:

Yeah it seems to go wide to relatively narrow. The folks I know that went this year said that slow AWA swimmers lining up at the front was also contributing factor. I think the lane narrowing is a bit better than it used to be. It still looks like a bunfight though. I watch this video a lot when but always wince from the 4min mark!

 

 

Heh FP, I don't normally watch Youtube vids but after a few posters mentioned it was good I watched it and I agree it is a must watch clip.  Brings back a lot of memories and actually would love to go back again.after watching that. 

To the swim question, I question why so many of those starters headed out right rather than sticking to the rope (yes it is a bit congested but you're with the current) but I still think the sweeping turn isn't too bad 

Here is another great clip, a little shorter but of the same year (with customary camels included) but is one my favorites.

 

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