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Cranky

920xt elevation stuff up

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Possible that the altimeter has become blocked/clogged. Try cleaning the watch (immersing) especially the altimeter's hole between the front buttons. Otherwise blowing air at it seemed to work with mine last night. 

Otherwise it could be a software issue and a reset maybe be needed, soft or hard.

Edited by Waza

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This happened with my 910 and I was regularly running at 20km  elevation.. it is a 'known issue' but mine was unable to be fixed (didnt bother sending back as didnt want to be offered a replacement/refurb)

I just go into garmin/strava afterwards and click 'correct elevation' and all is usually good..

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=i3SgY6gOKH6SfGFMUlHIy9&searchType=noProduct

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Does it really matter?  This is a serious question.  Not being the gadget hater in this case

Edited by Fitness Buddy
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8 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Does it really matter?  This is a serious question.  Not being the gadget hater in this case

Not one iota... the only time id be interested is if I was cycling in mountainous terrain, seeing how high i had gone after the fact...

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3 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Does it really matter?  This is a serious question.  Not being the gadget hater in this case

Yeah same. 

Just want to see the climbing* that I've done. 

 

*or embarrassing lack thereof 😂✌️

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Actually Cranky, this isn't the first time. I remember one of your swim posts showed some pretty massive altitude gains.

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3 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Does it really matter? 

If someone's asking about it, then it matters to them. Thats all you need to know.

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4 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Does it really matter?  This is a serious question.  Not being the gadget hater in this case

Maybe the assumption could be that if that metric is playing up then it could be a sign that other metrics may not be correct.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, roxii said:

Maybe the assumption could be that if that metric is playing up then it could be a sign that other metrics may not be correct.

 

 

Ah, now you've gone and done it! Cranky's completely freaked out now.

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1 hour ago, Turts said:

If someone's asking about it, then it matters to them. Thats all you need to know.

Maybe less stress not worrying about and concentrating on the key elements of the sessions.  

Pretty sure no coaches say to you need to climb x amount of metres today.  Time climbing more important? 

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39 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Maybe less stress not worrying about and concentrating on the key elements of the sessions.  

Pretty sure no coaches say to you need to climb x amount of metres today.  Time climbing more important? 

Agree with FB here.. someone is asking about it but it is only Cranky so that's no justification.. 😁

 

Possibly the only more meaningless field on watch would be temperature..

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2 hours ago, roxii said:

Maybe the assumption could be that if that metric is playing up then it could be a sign that other metrics may not be correct.

 

 

Yeah... 

 

Meaning theoretically you are still not 40!?

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31 minutes ago, pieman said:

Agree with FB here.. someone is asking about it but it is only Cranky so that's no justification.. 😁

 

Possibly the only more meaningless field on watch would be temperature..

Need to know the temperature. So I know what emojis to use for my Instagram post about my session #blessed #unicorn_magic 

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This is a very common and known fault of the 920xt. Garmin replaced mine even though it was way out of warranty. Call Garmin support 

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3 hours ago, Turts said:

If someone's asking about it, then it matters to them. Thats all you need to know.

 

2 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Maybe less stress not worrying about and concentrating on the key elements of the sessions.  

Pretty sure no coaches say to you need to climb x amount of metres today.  Time climbing more important? 

Like i said.

It matters to Cranky.

Not you.

And unknown about her coach.

Leave your perceptions to you and your clients. 

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24 minutes ago, Turts said:

 

Like i said.

It matters to Cranky.

Not you.

And unknown about her coach.

Leave your perceptions to you and your clients. 

Once again FB has made fair points or asked good questions but you seem to be so focused on taking the opposite view to anything he says you've missed them..

Cranky: how do you use elevation (either looking at it during a workout or afterwards) in your training? (Has this ever been a key focus on any of your training sessions? )

Cheers

 

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It's a well known issue with the 920. If you can't clear it then call Garmin and they'll replace free of charge. 

As to whether it matters I would say yes for three reasons!

1.

So you can track Skydives

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1567572683#

2. rTSS in TrainingPeaks uses elevation data.

3. It MAKES MY BRAIN BUZZ WHEN THE NUMBERS ARE WRONG.

Edited by monkie

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8 minutes ago, pieman said:

Once again FB has made fair points or asked good questions but you seem to be so focused on taking the opposite view to anything he says you've missed them..

Not at all. But just don't k its FB (or anyones) place to question a posters motivation.

Thats all. 

If I took the time, as an experienced triathlete who is experienced being coached, to post a question I'd b looking for a helpful answer. Not a question as to my movation. 

That's all. 

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2 minutes ago, Turts said:

Not at all. But just don't k its FB (or anyones) place to question a posters motivation.

Thats all. 

If I took the time, as an experienced triathlete who is experienced being coached, to post a question I'd b looking for a helpful answer. Not a question as to my movation. 

That's all. 

Am I questioning motivation?

Pretty sure I am just letting her know it is pretty irrelevant and don't stress over it.  That's advice just like the others have said.  Just because mine didn't actually involve fixing the situation from a gadget perspective.  Mine was aimed at fixing the stress associated with and the head space it has created.  Obviously if she posted it she is stressing over it.

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Some people are just data nuts, and having that field messed up in their spreadsheet may cause them more stress than not having done the session at all. 

People are different, thats what make the world a great place. 

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Just now, Fitness Buddy said:

Am I questioning motivation?

Pretty sure I am just letting her know it is pretty irrelevant and don't stress over it.  That's advice just like the others have said.  Just because mine didn't actually involve fixing the situation from a gadget perspective.  Mine was aimed at fixing the stress associated with and the head space it has created.  Obviously if she posted it she is stressing over it.

Nah all good. The first two replies addressed how to fix her issue from gadget perspective so she could stop reading there.. im keen to hear her answers to my questions about how she uses it though (or her coaches although im pretty sure she's self coached right now..) 

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So while we're on this, my 735XT shoes a 15m altitude change when swimming on the dam. Is this an issue (for me, not the suckers who are going to be swamped by the tsunami further down the creek.:))

 

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9 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Does it really matter?  This is a serious question.  Not being the gadget hater in this case

It does matter if you are tracking rTSS (approx run training stress). Because part of the formula for NGP and in turn rTSS uses gradient.  For example running 6 kms in 30 mins on a flat track is not the same effort as running 6 kms up a hill in 30 mins with a 3% gradient. 

From training peaks website. "Normalized Graded Pace (NGP) is the adjusted pace reported from a global positioning system (GPS), or other speed/distance device, that reflects the changes in grade and intensity that contribute to the physiological cost of running on varied terrain".

 

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8 hours ago, monkie said:

..

3. It MAKES MY BRAIN BUZZ WHEN THE NUMBERS ARE WRONG.

With you on that one Brother!

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10 hours ago, ashley_s said:

It does matter if you are tracking rTSS (approx run training stress). Because part of the formula for NGP and in turn rTSS uses gradient.  For example running 6 kms in 30 mins on a flat track is not the same effort as running 6 kms up a hill in 30 mins with a 3% gradient. 

From training peaks website. "Normalized Graded Pace (NGP) is the adjusted pace reported from a global positioning system (GPS), or other speed/distance device, that reflects the changes in grade and intensity that contribute to the physiological cost of running on varied terrain".

 

Appreciate you answering my question. Does TP have the option to correct elevation like in strava and GC? Realise this is only a band aid solution

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Bad information is worse than no information...at least to me.  (Stupid optical HR sensor :frusty:)

But basically - it would just be nice if sensors provided the correct data, no one likes faulty electronics. 

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On 20/07/2018 at 8:28 AM, pieman said:

Appreciate you answering my question. Does TP have the option to correct elevation like in strava and GC? Realise this is only a band aid solution

Yes it does, so it could fix it but it's still broken and so Garmin should sort or replace.

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2 hours ago, monkie said:

Yes it does, so it could fix it but it's still broken and so Garmin should sort or replace.

That will depend how old it is i guess.. they might offer a cheap refurb or cheap 935.. 

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1 minute ago, pieman said:

That will depend how old it is i guess.. they might offer a cheap refurb or cheap 935.. 

They replaced mine for the same fault out of warranty. Because it's a known issue they would have difficulty not offering a free replacement but you might have to argue it. What do we reckon the "reasonable lifespan" of a $500 watch should be? I'm gonna say 5 years...

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On ‎19‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 10:06 PM, ashley_s said:

It does matter if you are tracking rTSS (approx run training stress). Because part of the formula for NGP and in turn rTSS uses gradient.  For example running 6 kms in 30 mins on a flat track is not the same effort as running 6 kms up a hill in 30 mins with a 3% gradient. 

From training peaks website. "Normalized Graded Pace (NGP) is the adjusted pace reported from a global positioning system (GPS), or other speed/distance device, that reflects the changes in grade and intensity that contribute to the physiological cost of running on varied terrain".

 

Doesn't heart rate be the contributor to your stress score?   If you run or cycle up a gradient it will be associated with an elevation in heart rate. If you walk up the same gradient your heart rate will be lower.  So is the stress score going to be same because went up the same gradient (same elevation) or be different because your heart rate is lower?

With your example your stress score of 6km run the gradient alters the stress response to your heart rate is that correct.  There is no way a watch can determine the stress levels to the total body as this would be determined by how you perform the activity 

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59 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Doesn't heart rate be the contributor to your stress score?   If you run or cycle up a gradient it will be associated with an elevation in heart rate. If you walk up the same gradient your heart rate will be lower.  So is the stress score going to be same because went up the same gradient (same elevation) or be different because your heart rate is lower?

With your example your stress score of 6km run the gradient alters the stress response to your heart rate is that correct.  There is no way a watch can determine the stress levels to the total body as this would be determined by how you perform the activity 

From my understanding, you can select rTSS or TSS.  

rTSS utilises your pace and other watch metrics when you don't have HR to calculate your TSS.  You set your own threshold and zone paces through TP and it compares your pace to them. 

TSS will be based on your HR - again based on your HR zones you input. 

 

Similar for cycle - where you can have it based on pace, HR or power.

 

I didn't realise elevation was factored into the run TSS.   But you can get a TSS when you have no HR.  

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32 minutes ago, Turts said:

From my understanding, you can select rTSS or TSS.  

rTSS utilises your pace and other watch metrics when you don't have HR to calculate your TSS.  You set your own threshold and zone paces through TP and it compares your pace to them. 

TSS will be based on your HR - again based on your HR zones you input. 

 

Similar for cycle - where you can have it based on pace, HR or power.

 

I didn't realise elevation was factored into the run TSS.   But you can get a TSS when you have no HR.  

What is it measuring stress on then when no HR?  If HR is not being measured it cannot be calculating CV stress unless just basing off other parameters which could be misleading due to weather conditions or your physical condition.  

E.g if going by power and you are sick you may have low power but high HR so how is stress being evaluated here.  

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41 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

What is it measuring stress on then when no HR?  If HR is not being measured it cannot be calculating CV stress unless just basing off other parameters which could be misleading due to weather conditions or your physical condition.  

E.g if going by power and you are sick you may have low power but high HR so how is stress being evaluated here.  

A lot of these things are best guess, after you input what variables of your own you can, and data it has gathered in the past. It provides one based on HR, but if that isn't available, it gives a "best guess" option for those that need that kind of info.

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3 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

What is it measuring stress on then when no HR?  If HR is not being measured it cannot be calculating CV stress unless just basing off other parameters which could be misleading due to weather conditions or your physical condition.  

E.g if going by power and you are sick you may have low power but high HR so how is stress being evaluated here.  

Perceived effort of different paces. 

No hr = pace & rpe 

 

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Just now, FFF1077 said:

Perceived effort of different paces. 

No hr = pace & rpe 

 

TrainingPeaks does it a bit differently. It "normalises" the pace for the gradient and then compares that to your "threshold pace".

So it doesn't take into account fatigue, illness etc. but neither does TSS which is based purely on power.

I've linked above to the details but basically it is estimating your running power output and comparing that to your threshold. Similar to how TSS uses power output compared to FTP.

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yeah something is off with mine.  Last Saturday's ride on the IM Wales bike course has my Garmin showing 1254mtrs of elevation but the course has 2176mtrs. Strange thing is the elevation plot looks spot on. 

The 935 tells me the marathon had 357mtrs of climbing but I'm bloody sure it has more than that. (felt like it :lol: )

I gave it a good wash with shampoo in the shower last night, will see how it goes in the next week or so.

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On 19/07/2018 at 7:06 AM, Waza said:

Possible that the altimeter has become blocked/clogged. Try cleaning the watch (immersing) especially the altimeter's hole between the front buttons. Otherwise blowing air at it seemed to work with mine last night. 

Otherwise it could be a software issue and a reset maybe be needed, soft or hard.

I've tried this. Will see how it goes in the morning.  Thanks

On 19/07/2018 at 9:19 AM, pieman said:

This happened with my 910 and I was regularly running at 20km  elevation.. it is a 'known issue' but mine was unable to be fixed (didnt bother sending back as didnt want to be offered a replacement/refurb)

I just go into garmin/strava afterwards and click 'correct elevation' and all is usually good..

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=i3SgY6gOKH6SfGFMUlHIy9&searchType=noProduct

Will try this if option A) doesn't work

On 19/07/2018 at 12:30 PM, Fitness Buddy said:

Does it really matter?  This is a serious question.  Not being the gadget hater in this case

No. Not at all except it looks silly when it's in a straight line!

On 19/07/2018 at 4:03 PM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Actually Cranky, this isn't the first time. I remember one of your swim posts showed some pretty massive altitude gains.

Really? Was that a swim? I thought it was a (flattish) bike

On 19/07/2018 at 5:54 PM, Fitness Buddy said:

Maybe less stress not worrying about and concentrating on the key elements of the sessions.  

Pretty sure no coaches say to you need to climb x amount of metres today.  Time climbing more important? 

Not stressing.  Just want my cookies to look pretty..... and make sure that my pace is only slowing on the up hills!

On 19/07/2018 at 6:35 PM, pieman said:

Agree with FB here.. someone is asking about it but it is only Cranky so that's no justification.. 😁

 

Possibly the only more meaningless field on watch would be temperature..

No way! I like to know how tough I am when I run in the cold

On 19/07/2018 at 7:06 PM, FFF1077 said:

Yeah... 

 

Meaning theoretically you are still not 40!?

Thank you!!

On 19/07/2018 at 8:07 PM, James said:

This is a very common and known fault of the 920xt. Garmin replaced mine even though it was way out of warranty. Call Garmin support 

 Thanks! Will do if needed

On 19/07/2018 at 8:17 PM, Turts said:

 

Like i said.

It matters to Cranky.

Not you.

And unknown about her coach.

Leave your perceptions to you and your clients. 

No coach.  My manager says I can't spend any more money on tri

On 19/07/2018 at 8:47 PM, pieman said:

Once again FB has made fair points or asked good questions but you seem to be so focused on taking the opposite view to anything he says you've missed them..

Cranky: how do you use elevation (either looking at it during a workout or afterwards) in your training? (Has this ever been a key focus on any of your training sessions? )

Cheers

 

No

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On 19/07/2018 at 8:55 PM, monkie said:

It's a well known issue with the 920. If you can't clear it then call Garmin and they'll replace free of charge. 

As to whether it matters I would say yes for three reasons!

1.

So you can track Skydives

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1567572683#

2. rTSS in TrainingPeaks uses elevation data.

3. It MAKES MY BRAIN BUZZ WHEN THE NUMBERS ARE WRONG.

You've got them in the wrong order.

3, then 2, then 1

On 19/07/2018 at 9:13 PM, FFF1077 said:

Everyone is awesome and lovely. 

 

Thread closed 

You forgot the xxxx ooooo 😙

On 19/07/2018 at 9:23 PM, pieman said:

Nah all good. The first two replies addressed how to fix her issue from gadget perspective so she could stop reading there.. im keen to hear her answers to my questions about how she uses it though (or her coaches although im pretty sure she's self coached right now..) 

Well I don't have a coach right now.  Self coached? Technically, I guess so. I think I'm a pretty shit coach tough. 

Here's this week.  I'm over training for OD...

Mon 4:45am (2:00) swim & 25 min ramp test bike & strength
Tue 4:45am (2:00) 1:00 bike & 0:55 6x1km run
Wed 4:45am (2:00) swim & 1:00 bike
Thur 4:45am (2:00)1:00 bike & 1:00 8 x 800m Run 
Fri 4:45am (2:00+1:00) 1:30 bike & strength & pm swim
Sat 6:00am (0:22) 5km park run
Sun No alarm! (2:30) BRICK 1:30 bike & 10k moderate run

14 hrs

S3
B4.5
R4
St2

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On 19/07/2018 at 10:06 PM, ashley_s said:

It does matter if you are tracking rTSS (approx run training stress). Because part of the formula for NGP and in turn rTSS uses gradient.  For example running 6 kms in 30 mins on a flat track is not the same effort as running 6 kms up a hill in 30 mins with a 3% gradient. 

From training peaks website. "Normalized Graded Pace (NGP) is the adjusted pace reported from a global positioning system (GPS), or other speed/distance device, that reflects the changes in grade and intensity that contribute to the physiological cost of running on varied terrain".

 

I don't like TP atm. It is telling me that my biking is getting worse and even though my run is on its way up it's still not good enough!

Thanks to Winter Fish, the only thing that's better is my swim!!

I try not to look at it too often :(

Screenshot_20180721-184949_TrainingPeaks.jpg

Screenshot_20180721-185001_TrainingPeaks.jpg

Screenshot_20180721-185007_TrainingPeaks.jpg

Screenshot_20180721-185011_TrainingPeaks.jpg

Screenshot_20180721-185024_TrainingPeaks.jpg

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I wouldn't say that a drop in CTL says your bike is getting worse... it just says that you are not doing as much bike training as you were...

If you're worried about getting worse then do a FTP test on TR and then check again in 4 weeks. You'll be surprised I bet!

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11 minutes ago, monkie said:

I wouldn't say that a drop in CTL says your bike is getting worse... it just says that you are not doing as much bike training as you were...

If you're worried about getting worse then do a FTP test on TR and then check again in 4 weeks. You'll be surprised I bet!

I have one scheduled for Monday after swim squad. I must score higher than my last ramp test!

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26 minutes ago, Cranky said:

You've got them in the wrong order.

3, then 2, then 1

You forgot the xxxx ooooo 😙

Well I don't have a coach right now.  Self coached? Technically, I guess so. I think I'm a pretty shit coach tough. 

Here's this week.  I'm over training for OD...

Mon 4:45am (2:00) swim & 25 min ramp test bike & strength
Tue 4:45am (2:00) 1:00 bike & 0:55 6x1km run
Wed 4:45am (2:00) swim & 1:00 bike
Thur 4:45am (2:00)1:00 bike & 1:00 8 x 800m Run 
Fri 4:45am (2:00+1:00) 1:30 bike & strength & pm swim
Sat 6:00am (0:22) 5km park run
Sun No alarm! (2:30) BRICK 1:30 bike & 10k moderate run

14 hrs

S3
B4.5
R4
St2

And i thought i must be reading strava wrong when i see you riding trainer road  everyday... now i realize it's only 6 out of 7 days.. heard of recovery?  

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1 minute ago, pieman said:

And i thought i must be reading strava wrong when i see you riding trainer road  everyday... now i realize it's only 6 out of 7 days.. heard of recovery?  

6 days a week on the bike, and it doesn't leave the house. I'd go insane.

 

And Cranky, that's not over-training for OD. If you're serious & you want to get better, it's what you have to do.

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12 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

6 days a week on the bike, and it doesn't leave the house. I'd go insane.

 

And Cranky, that's not over-training for OD. If you're serious & you want to get better, it's what you have to do.

Warning: keyboard warrior comment follows..

I have to disagree with that.  Riding 6 days a week is totally unecessary and probably indicates there's a lot of riding for the sake of riding,  noodling around at an intensity that isn't doing anything for an OD.. there's no way you could ride that often and recover unless recovery riding..

but i think she's already said without training she'd be crazy(er) so that might explain there regularity..

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1 hour ago, Cranky said:

I don't like TP atm. It is telling me that my biking is getting worse and even though my run is on its way up it's still not good enough!

Thanks to Winter Fish, the only thing that's better is my swim!!

I try not to look at it too often :(

Screenshot_20180721-184949_TrainingPeaks.jpg

Screenshot_20180721-185001_TrainingPeaks.jpg

Screenshot_20180721-185007_TrainingPeaks.jpg

Screenshot_20180721-185011_TrainingPeaks.jpg

Screenshot_20180721-185024_TrainingPeaks.jpg

I just did the same trainer session I have doen for the past 4 weeks,  Same time started each time.  The only thing I measure is cadence.  At the 4th week I am now riding one gear lower and holding that gear for 30mins then running off the bike.  

Sorry I know this non gaget and no numbers but how you feel on the bike can sometimes be a good mesasure too.  

 

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1 hour ago, pieman said:

Warning: keyboard warrior comment follows..

I have to disagree with that.  Riding 6 days a week is totally unecessary and probably indicates there's a lot of riding for the sake of riding,  noodling around at an intensity that isn't doing anything for an OD.. there's no way you could ride that often and recover unless recovery riding..

but i think she's already said without training she'd be crazy(er) so that might explain there regularity..

I wasn't looking at the specific sessions, but more the total. 14 hours for a week is nothing over the top. If you have the time to do that, and as you say, you get recovery in, then that's perfectly OK for a 2 hour event. If anything, 4.5 hours on the bike (though I think her maths is a little out) is a bit short for the bike. The bike is half of the time of an OD, and only 1/3 of her training. And if you don't get off the bike strong, you aren't going to run well.

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen
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