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Might start a new business, would I get any takers?

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Banned.  It's a prescribed method according to WADA.  Someone should stand out the front handing out fake infraction notices to everyone exciting the building just for giggles.

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Wasn’t there a big uproar a few years back when a US IM had one of these companies as an official expo partner?

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1 hour ago, MSP said:

Wasn’t there a big uproar a few years back when a US IM had one of these companies as an official expo partner?

I think they had a testosterone supplement as a sponsor in their expo... 

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I think anyone having one of these prior to a race is nuts as you never know whats in them. However after a race is different. In Roth they have a massive post race triage. If you are feeling sick they will wack you on a drip and if you still feel unwell they put an anti nausea in the second bag. (To tell the truth I wasn't feeling super awful I had just heard that they were very effective and wanted to find out). I had both and felt so much better the next day. Yes you are still sore but the post race hangover that you can get just wasn't there. There was a noticeable difference between the people who had had an IV to those in our group who hadn't. Not sure if I would head to an IV bar but if an IV comes to you post race Im all for it.

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14 minutes ago, Lesmack said:

I think anyone having one of these prior to a race is nuts as you never know whats in them. However after a race is different. In Roth they have a massive post race triage. If you are feeling sick they will wack you on a drip and if you still feel unwell they put an anti nausea in the second bag. (To tell the truth I wasn't feeling super awful I had just heard that they were very effective and wanted to find out). I had both and felt so much better the next day. Yes you are still sore but the post race hangover that you can get just wasn't there. There was a noticeable difference between the people who had had an IV to those in our group who hadn't. Not sure if I would head to an IV bar but if an IV comes to you post race Im all for it.

Sure, but I think there are pretty strict medical criteria you have to meet for them to give you an IV. You cant just rock up and ask for one to help you rehydrate.

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1 hour ago, AA7 said:

Sure, but I think there are pretty strict medical criteria you have to meet for them to give you an IV. You cant just rock up and ask for one to help you rehydrate.

Why not?  What harm can it do?

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12 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

Why not?  What harm can it do?

No harm, but medical equipment and staff need to be available for people that need serious attention. They're not going to have thousands of IV bags and poles available for every racer.

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Reading Baggsy's book, a lot of the Euros and Yanks used to turn up to Forster fully expecting to be able to get an IV post-race "on demand". They were pretty shocked when he told 'em, " It just doesn't work that way here".

I must confess, I had one after a race in Korea where it was 40C+ and high humidity. But I didn't even ask for it. Probably 75% of the field had one.

At the end of the day, it's a medical procedure, and shouldn't be taken lightly. Needlestick injuries and all that OHS stuff. Plus I'd sure want to know that the people sticking a needle into me had the appropriate level of training and were competent to do so.

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3 hours ago, AA7 said:

Sure, but I think there are pretty strict medical criteria you have to meet for them to give you an IV. You cant just rock up and ask for one to help you rehydrate.

over here you cant, but when I raced in Asia and Europe that was pretty much the go, there would've been a hundred or so of us in the tent and IM Nice

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54 minutes ago, willie said:

over here you cant, but when I raced in Asia and Europe that was pretty much the go, there would've been a hundred or so of us in the tent and IM Nice

You can't just IV in Europe... there needs to be a medical need (for it not to be cheating) and it needs to be administered by a medical practitioner. 

To be fair, for most "normal" people the dehydration etc. experienced at the end of an IM would probably count as a medical need.

But that's not what they are suggesting here, this is a service that is saying that people should attend and receive a "Vitamin" IV as a matter of course which is probably cheating and definitely dubious.

3 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

Why not?  What harm can it do?

Lots. In particular where hyponatraemia could be a problem. 

Directly from the London Marathon medical guidelines:
IV fluids are really only indicated in runners with severe EAC who are hypovolaemic with a low BP even when nursed in the head down position and who cannot drink or tolerate oral fluids, or who have continuing fluid loss from vomiting or diarrhoea, or who have significant hyperthermia (see above). Even with these runners an iSTAT measurement should be made if possible to assess the situation and exclude the diagnosis of hyponatraemia).

Source: https://www.rcem.ac.uk//docs/RCEM Guidance/2017 Guidelines_for_Management_of_Marathon_Related_Medical_Emergencies.pdf

They are prepared by Professor Sanjay Sharma who is known as one of the world's experts on marathon and related medicine.

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I agree with Willie. At Roth the conversation went.

Them- how are you feeling.

Me- pretty average.

Them- can u keep water down.

Me - take a mouthful, of water and pretty much throw it up on their feet.

Them - come this way.

Like willie said the triage had around 100 beds, all drips were administered by drs and med students sat with you whilst is was in. All very regulated and safe. 

It just seems to be accepted over there whilst I had a friend crawl over the line in Busso in a really nasty way and they just shipped her out.

As long as it was safe and regulated I would definielty do it again. Really it is just accelerated hydration. Obviously if the triage was busy, which it wasn’t at the time I’m assuming they would be a bit less accomodating. 

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First thought the topic was 'Ironman Fours',  as in roman numerals .....read on to realise it was I Vees...I must be living in a box.

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7 hours ago, Lesmack said:

I agree with Willie. At Roth the conversation went.

Them- how are you feeling.

Me- pretty average.

Them- can u keep water down.

Me - take a mouthful, of water and pretty much throw it up on their feet.

Them - come this way.

Like willie said the triage had around 100 beds, all drips were administered by drs and med students sat with you whilst is was in. All very regulated and safe. 

It just seems to be accepted over there whilst I had a friend crawl over the line in Busso in a really nasty way and they just shipped her out.

As long as it was safe and regulated I would definielty do it again. Really it is just accelerated hydration. Obviously if the triage was busy, which it wasn’t at the time I’m assuming they would be a bit less accomodating. 

In fairness to WTC, the medical team in cairns gave me a few bags of saline a couple of years ago.

Apparently not being able to get vertical without vomiting after finding a place clear of the finish chute looked sufficiently serious.

 

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25 minutes ago, trilobite said:

In fairness to WTC, the medical team in cairns gave me a few bags of saline a couple of years ago.

Apparently not being able to get vertical without vomiting after finding a place clear of the finish chute looked sufficiently serious.

 

I was peeing nearly black in Forster one year, and that wasn't enough to get a bag.

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15 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I was peeing nearly black in Forster one year, and that wasn't enough to get a bag.

Back when Ironman was harder 😎💪

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19 hours ago, softy said:

First thought the topic was 'Ironman Fours',  as in roman numerals .....read on to realise it was I Vees...I must be living in a box.

Same! Took me a little while to work it out🤔😯

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16 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I was peeing nearly black in Forster one year, and that wasn't enough to get a bag.

I was carried off to the medical tent and put on an IV after finishing at Forster every year for at least the first 9 years I raced.

Certainly assists and accelerates recovery.

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IVs should be like those finisher / participation medals. If you finish you are eligible....you choose to take it or not.

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1 hour ago, JDAF said:

IVs should be like those finisher / participation medals. If you finish you are eligible....you choose to take it or not.

I hope this is tongue in cheek? Giving an IV without both a core temperature (that's up the bum) and a blood analysis from an iStat or similar should only be done in either absolute emergencies or when the history and diagnosis are close to 100% known. You can do a shed load of damage to people if given when there are underlying complications, have a read of the medical guidelines for the London Marathon I linked to above. According to some of the world's experts on endurance medicine you should only think about giving IV fluids if somebody is experiencing serious Exercise Associated Collapse and is unable to rehydrate orally. Giving an IV is a serious medical intervention and shouldn't be considered standard rehydration. I've seen too many people end up in clip because some Doctor / Paramedic who is not experienced in EAC has jammed fluids into them.

/gets off high horse

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Brisbane Lions used to get bags at half time. That's why they would run other teams into the ground after half time. Vossy said it was like a complete physical reset. 

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Back when I started Ironman it was pretty well known that if you wet into recovery and  say you couldn’t remember when you last had a leak etc they would offer you a bag. 

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Pretty sure you would actually have to apply for a retrospective TUE for an IV both before and after a race. Medical emergencies only and you need the paperwork to prove it. 

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Swimmer Ryan Lochte just sent a pic of himself doing one of these on Instagram...... WADA came knocking and gave him a 12months suspension.

As innocent as it is...... they don’t like it.

 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/us-olympian-ryan-lochte-gets-himself-suspended-with-thoughtless-instagram-post/news-story/9e1d707fcd0f28347f651a07adedcda1

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Walmart is where I'd wanna go for my IV drips!

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On 22/06/2018 at 4:03 PM, monkie said:

I hope this is tongue in cheek? Giving an IV without both a core temperature (that's up the bum) and a blood analysis from an iStat or similar should only be done in either absolute emergencies or when the history and diagnosis are close to 100% known. You can do a shed load of damage to people if given when there are underlying complications, have a read of the medical guidelines for the London Marathon I linked to above. According to some of the world's experts on endurance medicine you should only think about giving IV fluids if somebody is experiencing serious Exercise Associated Collapse and is unable to rehydrate orally. Giving an IV is a serious medical intervention and shouldn't be considered standard rehydration. I've seen too many people end up in clip because some Doctor / Paramedic who is not experienced in EAC has jammed fluids into them.

/gets off high horse

I have a client who collapsed at 39km of GC Marathon, vomited by side of road, disoriented, didn't know family names or numbers, couldn't remember her kids' names, off chops big time. Was assisted by a spectator, eventually driven back to race HQ, temp 40 degrees, still vomitting 90 minutes later. Eventually drank 2 cups of water and kept it down before being released under her own care. Hadn't urinated. Went back to unit where she was staying by herself, still off her chops 3am and is a RN so got an uber to hospital still hyperthermic and after 2 bags was allowed to fly home the next morning. I was astounded she was released from the medical tent. The humidity and wearing one skins at 3.20 pace did her in, but there were a lot of collapses in the last 5km apparently.

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43 minutes ago, Parkside said:

I have a client who collapsed at 39km of GC Marathon, vomited by side of road, disoriented, didn't know family names or numbers, couldn't remember her kids' names, off chops big time. Was assisted by a spectator, eventually driven back to race HQ, temp 40 degrees, still vomitting 90 minutes later. Eventually drank 2 cups of water and kept it down before being released under her own care. Hadn't urinated. Went back to unit where she was staying by herself, still off her chops 3am and is a RN so got an uber to hospital still hyperthermic and after 2 bags was allowed to fly home the next morning. I was astounded she was released from the medical tent. The humidity and wearing one skins at 3.20 pace did her in, but there were a lot of collapses in the last 5km apparently.

Heaps of collapses. I would guess 2 per km. I think that was a combo of sneaky humidity and poor aid station stocking myself - they only had x1 gel station at 32km, and only had Electrolyte at every second station, so you could go 5-6km without access to salts. Im sure that caught up with a few people.

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2 hours ago, Parkside said:

I have a client who collapsed at 39km of GC Marathon, vomited by side of road, disoriented, didn't know family names or numbers, couldn't remember her kids' names, off chops big time. Was assisted by a spectator, eventually driven back to race HQ, temp 40 degrees, still vomitting 90 minutes later. Eventually drank 2 cups of water and kept it down before being released under her own care. Hadn't urinated. Went back to unit where she was staying by herself, still off her chops 3am and is a RN so got an uber to hospital still hyperthermic and after 2 bags was allowed to fly home the next morning. I was astounded she was released from the medical tent. The humidity and wearing one skins at 3.20 pace did her in, but there were a lot of collapses in the last 5km apparently.

Wouldn't happen at London! We have full ICUs at the finish lines staffed by doctors, nurses and paras. Nobody gets released without a thermometer up the bum giving a normal core temperature reading.

Whether you have a "busy" marathon or not is very difficult to predict. London this year was one of the hottest on record but we weren't that busy lifting and shifting at the finish line... they were busy round the route. The worst one I ever dealt with was about 10 years ago where it started cool and then suddenly got hot. We were at mile 23 and our treatment centre was a bit like something from the Somme. London Ambulance HEMS turned up and I've never been so pleased to see them!

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3 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Swimmer Ryan Lochte just sent a pic of himself doing one of these on Instagram...... WADA came knocking and gave him a 12months suspension.

As innocent as it is...... they don’t like it.

 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/us-olympian-ryan-lochte-gets-himself-suspended-with-thoughtless-instagram-post/news-story/9e1d707fcd0f28347f651a07adedcda1

That's pretty brutal. 12 months. Clearly needed to either a) have the money for the Sky lawyers or b) not post positive proof of yourself casually breaking the rules from your own instagram account....

Edited by dazaau

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20 hours ago, dazaau said:

That's pretty brutal. 12 months.

Pretty lucky.  The full penalty is 4 years and I'm not sure that he fit the criteria for a reduction of any sort.  Deserves two years just for being that ignorant of the WADA code.

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On 22/06/2018 at 4:38 PM, FFF1077 said:

Brisbane Lions used to get bags at half time. That's why they would run other teams into the ground after half time. Vossy said it was like a complete physical reset. 

Just saline solution? ;):) 

Edited by gregorywannabe

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25 minutes ago, gregorywannabe said:

Just saline solution? ;):) 

No waaayyyy!! 

 

XXXX only bro 😎🤘😂😂

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