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goughy

Plastic bag ban.....

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We can't do jack shit about 3rd world countries disposal of plastic. How that is relevant to Australia's consumption of single use plastics and contribution to pollution I'm not sure?

 

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On 4/7/2018 at 6:43 AM, monkie said:

We get the refund over here already but I don't think the price went up...

It sure did go up. 1L mineral water bottles used to 75c, went up 10c months ago

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

So you want me to buy thicker biodegradable bin liners instead of biodegradable shopping bags...

What do you propose we do about countries like China, Indonesia and the Philippines as the source of the vast majority of plastic bags in the oceans?

The biodegradable bin bags we have are not thick at all... Would love biodegradable shopping bags but that wasn't the case. 

Bringing up other polluting countries is classic "whataboutism". My mum always taught me that two wrongs don't make a right. Perhaps as a rich country we should lead the way? Just an idea.

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13 minutes ago, Parkside said:

It sure did go up. 1L mineral water bottles used to 75c, went up 10c months ago

Goodo. There's the motivation to take them back! Or get a water filter and a Sodastream. I love my sodastream! Saved me from a $10 a day San Pellegrino habit!

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On 04/07/2018 at 6:43 AM, monkie said:

We get the refund over here already but I don't think the price went up...

Qld is about to start a container refund scheme. The only issue with it is that they are likely to set up only 100 - 200 return sites throughout the entire state. In many cases, that means it will be a few hours drive just to return your bottle or can.

To add to the ridiculousness, they are only refunding on "take-away style" containers, and not the kind you would use at home. The fact that you would have to take them home to stockpile before making the trek to a refund site doesn't seem to strike them as stupid.

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4 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Qld is about to start a container refund scheme. The only issue with it is that they are likely to set up only 100 - 200 return sites throughout the entire state. In many cases, that means it will be a few hours drive just to return your bottle or can.

To add to the ridiculousness, they are only refunding on "take-away style" containers, and not the kind you would use at home. The fact that you would have to take them home to stockpile before making the trek to a refund site doesn't seem to strike them as stupid.

This does seem a little daft!

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Can't do milk, wine or juice  bottles, can do poppers, stubbies and cans It is more restricitive than I thought and I think we'll wait until we get a big amount before going to the trouble of depositing. They have 2 collection points within 15 minutes of us. We've started collecting them at home. Use an app and it credits your paypal account, won't make a dent on my wife's online habit but anyway. There are people doing the old-school practice of searching through bins again now though I've noticed

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28 minutes ago, Parkside said:

It sure did go up. 1L mineral water bottles used to 75c, went up 10c months ago

In NSW. One interesting side effect is that 350ml water bottles sales have slowed up as the price when up more as a percent.

Also 500ml/600ml sales have increased. Total sales do not seem to be impacted.

There is also a move by at least 2 major drink manufacturers to increase recycled content into PET bottles. Over the next few months it will be interesting to see how they market this.

Disclaimer: I work in the single use water bottle manufacturing sector and analysis production and sales figures daily.

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17 minutes ago, rory-dognz said:

Disclaimer: I work in the single use water bottle manufacturing sector and analysis production and sales figures daily.

I might need to tap you up for some thoughts on a new side project I have (after I've done the shoe data thing)... basically an app that tells you from the barcode whether / how to recycle packaging...

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11 hours ago, monkie said:

I might need to tap you up for some thoughts on a new side project I have (after I've done the shoe data thing)... basically an app that tells you from the barcode whether / how to recycle packaging...

Will be an interesting data base and need buy-in from the packers as that is the recycling symbol on the bottle/can

Eg PET is 1 in the triangle and that is on all the bottles we make, but the recycled component is not on the embosed on the bottle but may be a marketing claim.

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1 minute ago, rory-dognz said:

Will be an interesting data base and need buy-in from the packers as that is the recycling symbol on the bottle/can

Eg PET is 1 in the triangle and that is on all the bottles we make, but the recycled component is not on the embosed on the bottle but may be a marketing claim.

Yep it's the Triangle information that I think will be key. The idea being I can scan any barcode and be told "The cap is made of X and cannot be recycled in your area except in a specialist location such as Y. The bottle is made of Z and can be recycled in your yellow council bin."

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1 hour ago, monkie said:

Yep it's the Triangle information that I think will be key. The idea being I can scan any barcode and be told "The cap is made of X and cannot be recycled in your area except in a specialist location such as Y. The bottle is made of Z and can be recycled in your yellow council bin."

I have a house full of eco warriors, but i struggle to remember what can and can not go in the yellow lid recycle bin, an app would be brilliant for me personally.

Side note - Does anyone here have a bogashi bin, we have just strated using one and it has cut down the volume of waste that goes into our waste wheelie bin, when i took the bin out this week i noticed a substantially lighter bin than what we have had in the past, but our recycle bin was nearly full.

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14 hours ago, monkie said:

The biodegradable bin bags we have are not thick at all... Would love biodegradable shopping bags but that wasn't the case. 

Bringing up other polluting countries is classic "whataboutism". My mum always taught me that two wrongs don't make a right. Perhaps as a rich country we should lead the way? Just an idea.

'We're a rich country so we have to Do Something even though the impact of other countries dwarfs the effect of our self-nullifying gestures. '  Hmmm, where have I heard that before?

Two questions:

- What proportion of marine plastic is comprised of shopping bags?

- How is rubbish encased in a purchased bin liner any less harmful than rubbish encased in a free shopping bag?

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1 minute ago, IronJimbo said:

'We're a rich country so we have to Do Something even though the impact of other countries dwarfs the effect of our self-nullifying gestures. '  Hmmm, where have I heard that before?

Two questions:

- What proportion of marine plastic is comprised of shopping bags?

- How is rubbish encased in a purchased bin liner any less harmful than rubbish encased in a free shopping bag?

1) Some. That's enough.

2) Eh? Bio-degradable. The bag bio-degrades. Also, I think you're missing the specific point about the damage that light weight plastics do in the waste chain. 

3) Self-nullifying is a tautology and is incorrect in this instance.

You've been shown data but it's never going to be enough for you so it's kind of pointless even engaging. Fact is, the law has changed so you're gonna have to suck it up anyway which makes me happy.

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48 minutes ago, KieranR said:

I have a house full of eco warriors, but i struggle to remember what can and can not go in the yellow lid recycle bin, an app would be brilliant for me personally.

I'm constantly presenting the wife with various bits of rubbish and asking her what I can do with it! #romance.

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2 minutes ago, monkie said:

I'm constantly presenting the wife with various bits of rubbish and asking her what I can do with it! #romance.

Does she then give you a response indicating where you can stick it??   :lol: 

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On a slight tangent I have noticed a real trend developing where a lot of people who deny climate change, and reckon we should still be using coal as our primary energy source due to the cost are also the folk who most vocally want us to support our farmers in the worst drought in living memory.  :blink:

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3 minutes ago, roxii said:

On a slight tangent I have noticed a real trend developing where a lot of people who deny climate change, and reckon we should still be using coal as our primary energy source due to the cost are also the folk who most vocally want us to support our farmers in the worst drought in living memory.  :blink:

Temperature anomalies arranged by country 1900 - 2016.

Puts it nicely!

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14 minutes ago, monkie said:

1) Some. That's enough.

2) Eh? Bio-degradable. The bag bio-degrades. Also, I think you're missing the specific point about the damage that light weight plastics do in the waste chain. 

3) Self-nullifying is a tautology and is incorrect in this instance.

You've been shown data but it's never going to be enough for you so it's kind of pointless even engaging. Fact is, the law has changed so you're gonna have to suck it up anyway which makes me happy.

1) So you don't really know how serious the problem is that you're trying to solve?

2) Free shopping bags are also biodegradable

3) Not so.  We're talking about cost-benefit

I have asked for more specific data, but given your inability (or unwillingness) to answer question  #1, I have to assume that you care more about feeling smug than the actual impact of what you propose.  As shown by your last sentence

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Just now, IronJimbo said:

1) So you don't really know how serious the problem is that you're trying to solve?

2) Free shopping bags are also biodegradable

3) Not so.  We're talking about cost-benefit

I have asked for more specific data, but given your inability (or unwillingness) to answer question  #1, I have to assume that you care more about feeling smug than the actual impact of what you propose.  As shown by your last sentence

1) 5 seconds on Google. http://oceancrusaders.org/plastic-crusades/plastic-statistics/

2) I don't think they are. Do you have any evidence? Bio-degradable bags are made from non-mineral materials.

3) Eh? Self-nullifying is a tautology and you're throwing it out there without anything to back it up except the fact that you are going to go and buy bin bags...

Not about feeling smug, I think the term you're looking for is schadenfreude.

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7 minutes ago, monkie said:

1) 5 seconds on Google. http://oceancrusaders.org/plastic-crusades/plastic-statistics/

2) I don't think they are. Do you have any evidence? Bio-degradable bags are made from non-mineral materials.

3) Eh? Self-nullifying is a tautology and you're throwing it out there without anything to back it up except the fact that you are going to go and buy bin bags...

Not about feeling smug, I think the term you're looking for is schadenfreude.

1) Nothing there about how many shopping bags end up in the oceans.  Just a big scary number about how many get used

2) My mistake.  I withdraw and apologise

3) We are penalising ourselves for a non-discernible benefit

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For the recycling bin, we put in anything that may possibly be recyclable!, it may or may not be recyclable in Australia, 

It is called "Wish Recycling", and yes it causes hassle at the recycler and potentially increases there costs as they have to dump the waste. But if one extra bottle is recycled because of uncertainty then better off.

Edit to add

here is an official list of Visy recycling website

https://www.visy.com.au/recycling-education/what-can-you-recycle/

Edited by rory-dognz

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be wary of Bio-degradable plastic claims. Some just break down to smaller pieces of plastic, some need UV light, etc

What is required is non plastic biodegradable eg corn stach and some others. I think they are generally claimed as compostable, rather than bio degradable

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Was watching something the other day about recycling, basically they said if it's smaller than your first don't bother putting it in the yellow bin as anything smaller will go through the spring grow and end up in landfill anyway.

A mate of mine who's an engineer reckons right now that our major cities have 100 years of landfill ready right now, as they use old quarries and since we still want concrete etc, we'll keep making more.

I have no issue with going the way we have, I just stuck it up and not complain cause it ain't changing back.  But myself, I think the bigger problem isn't the bags themselves, but people.  People who are too lazy to dispose of something properly, and this laziness, world wide, is the issue.  Face it, how often over the years, and still today, do you see people ash cigarettes or the car window or on the ground, and just toss the butts.  It doesn't even require and extra 5% effort to be more careful/thoughtful but plenty of people (plenty) couldn't put in that effort!

I got up a guy in the Brissie mall the other day.  He had a KFC box of food and tossed it all out on top of the Queen St mall toilets (out of reach) and when I berated him for it he said it's for the birds, see!  ****ing lazy pricks who couldn't give a shit!  It's not all this plastic that's the real problem, it's people!

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59 minutes ago, rory-dognz said:

It is called "Wish Recycling", and yes it causes hassle at the recycler and potentially increases there costs as they have to dump the waste. But if one extra bottle is recycled because of uncertainty then better off.

Actually, maybe not better off.

Earlier this year Ipswich council was dumping the yellow top bins straight to landfill for 4 weeks due to cost blowouts because of the amount of non-recyclable material in them. They back-flipped after the spotlight came on them, but costs will obviously end up being borne by the ratepayers.

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1. Be completely ignorant about facts pertaining to topic being discussed

2. Be factually incorrect on more than one occasion

3. Demand facts be produced by others and don't bother performing own research

4. Make condescending claims about others' behaviour or opinions

Wow.

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35 minutes ago, Parkside said:

1. Be completely ignorant about facts pertaining to topic being discussed

2. Be factually incorrect on more than one occasion

3. Demand facts be produced by others and don't bother performing own research

lol

God you're a sook

And a hypocrite...

4. Make condescending claims about others' behaviour or opinions

Wow.

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52 minutes ago, Parkside said:

1. Be completely ignorant about facts pertaining to topic being discussed

2. Be factually incorrect on more than one occasion

3. Demand facts be produced by others and don't bother performing own research

4. Make condescending claims about others' behaviour or opinions

Wow.

 

15 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

lol

God you're a sook

And a hypocrite...

 

 

Ban/don't ban guns

ban/dont ban plastic bags

are plastic (3d printed) guns okay?

discuss you two..

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Please let's not turn this into another shit fight....

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1 minute ago, goughy said:

Please let's not turn this into another shit fight....

a bit late I'd say...

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2 hours ago, goughy said:

It's not all this plastic that's the real problem, it's people!

Selfishness is the real scourge of our times, and we're all guilty of it.

The bottom line is that there is a cost, and we want someone else to pay.

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8 minutes ago, goughy said:

Please let's not turn this into another shit fight....

I'm a lover, not a fighter

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I’m Only seeing what people are quoting for a certain user. Who knows, I may be missing the well considered, well informed thought provoking posts being made. Or not.

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On 10/08/2018 at 4:35 AM, pieman said:

are plastic (3d printed) guns okay?

 

well, a student shut down Dundee University when he was seen carrying a gun through campus.

Turns out he made it on the 3D printer in the Art School, so I guess it's a pretty dumb thing to do.

Edited by The Customer

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14 hours ago, The Customer said:

well, a student shut down Dundee University when he was seen carrying a gun through campus.

Turns out he made it on the 3D printer in the Art School, so I guess it's a pretty dumb thing to do.

Darwinism should usually take care of people like that

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So Coles now have these mini items.  They are made from plastic.  WTF one minute we need to stop using plastic bag but it is ok to make useless mini items out of plastic

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If it's something the kids want and collect, then the parents will shop there.  Woolies normally do some sort of collectable card thing.  I just don't tell the kids about them....

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I went to Coles yesterday, and they are still giving away their re-usable bags. The only problem is, the handle just about tore right out of it between the mall & my office, and the only thing of significant weight was a 2l bottle. I used to carry 2 x 2l bottles in the old grey ones.

It appears the new re-usable ones may also be single use.

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19 minutes ago, goughy said:

If it's something the kids want and collect, then the parents will shop there.  Woolies normally do some sort of collectable card thing.  I just don't tell the kids about them....

I recently seen a thing on FB.  Kids collecting rocks and painting them.  This is brilliant IMO.  Creativity gets kids outdoors finding rocks and using imagination.  

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I've been using the green so-called 'eco' bags for years, and I don't have issues carrying them with me. I get about a year before a seam will start to tear and they need a few stitches to fix them, and about another year after that before the handles finally break and they need replacing. Calico is probably better environmentally, but at least I'm currently only tossing a bag every few years.

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The Calico bags I believe are one of the worst for the environment!  Massive amount of water used to produce each.  When you look at the state about how many times each bag has to be used to counter the impact of a single use bag.......

It's something like this - of you used a single use bag as your rubbish bag, then you had to use a Calico bag like 4000 times to compare.  If you used that single use bag once then just threw it out, you had to use the Calico bag still like 1500 times.  This obviously is looking at the complete environmental impact etc, not just from a waste perspective.

I could be wrong in assuming this, but from a complete environmental impact, it seems to me that single use bags aren't all that bad, of people weren't last and disposed of them properly.  From a rubbish perspective only, they're probably the worst.

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Re-using the cardboard packaging boxes to carry your groceries, or just carrying out 1 or 2 items in your pockets or back-pack is the most environmentally friendly.

Then of course, the folk down at Logan have been doing the latter for years to help the environment. ;)

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen
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3 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

I recently seen a thing on FB.  Kids collecting rocks and painting them.  This is brilliant IMO.  Creativity gets kids outdoors finding rocks and using imagination.  

yeah our kids do this, we go and hide them around town, then others find it, paint it and do the same thing, my kids have found some pretty cool rocks painted up.

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1 hour ago, XCOM! said:

I've been using the green so-called 'eco' bags for years, and I don't have issues carrying them with me. I get about a year before a seam will start to tear and they need a few stitches to fix them, and about another year after that before the handles finally break and they need replacing. Calico is probably better environmentally, but at least I'm currently only tossing a bag every few years.

and you can recycle the eco bags in the Redcycle bin with your soft plastics

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3 hours ago, goughy said:

The Calico bags I believe are one of the worst for the environment!  Massive amount of water used to produce each.  When you look at the state about how many times each bag has to be used to counter the impact of a single use bag.......

 

I hope you don't buy orange juice!

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I do.  But I don't have any Calico bags so it balances out.

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2 hours ago, Parkside said:

and you can recycle the eco bags in the Redcycle bin with your soft plastics

Yeah, I do, but of course you know where that ends up these days... not like the good old days when we could send it to China.

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19 hours ago, goughy said:

I could be wrong in assuming this, but from a complete environmental impact, it seems to me that single use bags aren't all that bad, of people weren't last and disposed of them properly.  From a rubbish perspective only, they're probably the worst.

It's this. It's a very specific problem about lightweight waste. And the long term aim is that people change their behaviour and don't need to buy the reusable bags but just get used to either putting stuff in a rucksack or tote that lasts forever.

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