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Plastic bag ban.....

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2 minutes ago, monkie said:

There is a specific issue with lightweight plastic bags (and general lightweight plastic) in that by its nature it is difficult to manage in the waste chain because they literally blow away. The plastic is also very difficult to recycle.

The trees used for paper bags are planted specifically for that purpose and new ones are planted in their place so it's much more sustainable and doesn't kill animals like plastic bags do.

I remember a few years back driving down to the snow and passing the "tip" on the outskirts of Canberra on the main drag.  It was a real windy day and the chainwire fence on the perimeter of the tip was covered in plastic bags that were being blown against it and there were also rogue bags and other crap being blown across the highway. 

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1 hour ago, monkie said:

There is a specific issue with lightweight plastic bags (and general lightweight plastic) in that by its nature it is difficult to manage in the waste chain because they literally blow away. The plastic is also very difficult to recycle.

The trees used for paper bags are planted specifically for that purpose and new ones are planted in their place so it's much more sustainable and doesn't kill animals like plastic bags do.

Mill Creek MTB trails next to Lucas Heights tip are an eye opener. The gum trees for kilometres away from the tip are full of plastic bags and remnants of them, way up in the air and on the ground (before it was burnt out in the April bushfires)

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2 hours ago, Turtle said:

Same here. I use public transport to/from work.  To stop in to the shops on the way home I now can't pick much up.  Will have to learn to bring a shopping bag with me.

Personally, I'm somewhat cynical about the bag ban. I'm all for helping the environment but I think this is a token gesture and somewhat falsified (as people will now buy bags...which are the heavier, less environmentally friendly ones) so I wish I'd bought shares in Glad.  I will now unwrap the plastic packaging from the herbs, fruit and veg, etc. and leave it at the counter on the way out...

I'm also confused. if we go back to paper, as some suggest, isn't that just leading to an increase in the felling of trees?  which is why we went so anti paper a number of years back??

two options: don't buy the individually plastic wrapped fruit, some of it is ridiculous  and instead of leaving the plastic wrapping on the counter, look for a RedCycle bin which in our Coles and Woolies are at the front door literally 2m from the front counter. We started recycling all our soft plastic in these a few weeks ago. For the first time ever I have had space in our red bin on bin night and not had to go a and poach neighbours bin space with our overflow. I reckon at least a 30% reduction in volume going to landfill from our family. If we bothered composting it would be 50%

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I bought a news paper on the weekend.  I've used that to wrap my rubbish before putting it in the bins at our apartment complex.  Worked for my folks and theirs.  Plastic's gotta go.

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2 hours ago, lawman said:

I bought a news paper on the weekend. 

So you're the one!

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I just want to see a mindset in the retailers in general in their packaging.  How many times do you see at McDonalds someone orders a single burger or muffin.  It comes out wrapped in the normal paper wrapping, and then the person behind the counter puts it into another paper bag.  You walk outside, take the burger out of the outer bag, take off the wrapping, put the wrapping in the bag and then deposit them both in the first bin you find.

Same thing at the supermarkets, I go in to buy one item, such as earlier this week when I grabbed some yoghurt.  At the check out the young kid put it straight into a bag and had to stop and think when I told him I didn't want the bag - it was like I was going against all of his training.  It's one item, I'm capable of carrying it to my car and then into my house

It should be the norm that in all cases the outer carry case is available on request only - if the retailer chooses to charge for it than so be it.

And I think it was Parky, get onto the composting.  Between the composting and putting out cardboard into our wood fire that we use for heat, our bins are easily under half full every week now.  I'll look to do your plastic back to Coles thing and see how much lower we can get it.  We have a 120 litre container for compost and after half a year it is only half full, and that's with the top up with the fire ash and some soil and straw - mind you a small amount goes to my daughters guinea pigs

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1 hour ago, Tyno said:

So you're the one!

Yep, couldn't come at wrapping the rubbish in my ipad. 

Saw a Murdoch paper and couldn't see any better use than filling it with more rubbish.  Miranda Divine's page is excellent for picking up dog shit, seems to stick very well.

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1 hour ago, lawman said:

 Miranda Divine's page is excellent for picking up dog shit, seems to stick very well.

I thought likes repelled? 

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On 28/06/2018 at 1:34 PM, Parkside said:

two options: don't buy the individually plastic wrapped fruit, some of it is ridiculous  and instead of leaving the plastic wrapping on the counter, look for a RedCycle bin which in our Coles and Woolies are at the front door literally 2m from the front counter. We started recycling all our soft plastic in these a few weeks ago. For the first time ever I have had space in our red bin on bin night and not had to go a and poach neighbours bin space with our overflow. I reckon at least a 30% reduction in volume going to landfill from our family. If we bothered composting it would be 50%

 

On 28/06/2018 at 1:40 PM, lawman said:

I bought a news paper on the weekend.  I've used that to wrap my rubbish before putting it in the bins at our apartment complex.  Worked for my folks and theirs.  Plastic's gotta go.

Have done all three....and we live in an apartment.  Compost in a twin tumbler, soft plastics to Coles and we have started newspaper wrapping this week.  We also reuse glass wrap, as long as it has not been wrapped aronund meat. Not hard, just have to have a few more bins inside.  Normal rubbish is far more reduced. Left over soap is soaked and becomes a bigger bar, and recently discovered shampoo and conditioner natural soap bars.   Only had to use one take away coffee cup so far this year.  Can be done, just a small change in thinking.  🤔😀

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I recycle a lot, have two large yellow council recycle bins and never fill my single half as big council red bin.

I use the supermarket  bags for bin liners etc and picking up the dogs shit when it out walking and needs to unload.  I also use them for covering shoes when I travel and I also  put my dirty clothes in them for washing when i get home.   I havnt bought a newspaper for years.

Guess I can buy other bags to overcome these uses but supermarkets getting rid of these bags just looks like a cash grab.  Though if they stop selling garbage bags, newspapers and magazines, I'll believe their sincerity.

 

ps.  i still buy books in paperform both hardback and paperback... havnt quite to ebooks yet.

 

Edited by Oompa Loompa
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I went shopping this morning and survived. I suppose we'll all live through it.

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46 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I went shopping this morning and survived. I suppose we'll all live through it.

when I was little supermarkets had paper bags, crazy shit.   and jewel in the capital,  had an area where you went grabbed boxes and put your shit in them on benches.   

 

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5 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

and jewel in the capital,  had an area where you went grabbed boxes and put your shit in them on benches.   

Our local supermarket still has that, as does Bunnings.

 

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We didn't have a bag when we went to Aldi for a bottle of wine. That was a good look walking across the rail bridge from Meadowbank to Rhodes with an uncovered bottle of wine in one hand and cordial in the other!

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Mark Robson out doing his shopping, trying to cut corners on having to pay full price for bags..... 

 

In all reality though, this is being reported around the world and they are laughing at is.  Even yanks think we're starting to make them look good!

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But I bet the yanks get to use boxes that the supermarket has, at least that's what Costco has here. Coles and Woolworths don't offer it, and Aldi used to, but now you have to hunt the shelves for a product that has a big enough box and is nearly empty to take it. 

That was the deal in Austria, the local supermarkets were bag less back in 2003 when I went to St Anton, we just grabbed a couple of boxes at the register on the first trip. If we forgot to take the box on the next trip, just grab another one. Best way to transport boxed items back to the apartment.

Oh and I am not entirely sure if this is true....

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/mans-reusable-bag-refused-for-sporting-competitors-logo/news-story/d1946a36ddee96cbd0289cd44893957e

Edited by MissJess

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I too think that's a crock Jess.  Someone afterwards reckoned it happened to them at Coles.  But many people are shits and will say whatever they want to suit them and their argument.  Look at that shithouse waste of a Pollie Leyonjelm and what he insists was said to him, yet no one else heard it, no mics picked it up etc.  

Before this ban came in place, my daughter has had customers come in with bags that are filthy, have cockroaches and mouse droppings in them, or big hole and the customer insists they still use them!  I was talking to the guy at Woolies the other day and he said he's had live mice in a bag before.  I reckon something like that was the case for these people, but they twist it to suit their whinge.

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Most folks in the UK take clean bags to the shops but then again, we pack pack our own bags here ( shocking I know :lol:)

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17 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Most folks in the UK take clean bags to the shops but then again, we pack pack our own bags here ( shocking I know :lol:)

I am rather in awe as to how badly this is being taken over here... maybe I have rose tinted glasses but when it happened in the UK my recollection is we all just shrugged and took reusable bags to the supermarket...

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8 minutes ago, monkie said:

I am rather in awe as to how badly this is being taken over here... maybe I have rose tinted glasses but when it happened in the UK my recollection is we all just shrugged and took reusable bags to the supermarket...

That is exactly what happened and I was going to type something similar. It was an issue for a day and then everyone found their own way of dealing with it.

We are on a different system in Hampshire to my Mother in Somt when it comes to recycling and food waste but Mum has a choice of either wrapping foodstuff in newspaper (any paper i guess) or buying the cheap as chips super degradable plastic bags that are specifically designed for food scraps. That the goes in the food bin provided by to each home by council.

She has one for tins and bottles/plastic, one for food and one for paper.  It all seems to work remarkably well.

In Hampshire we have separate wheelie bins for general recycling and general waste and we are also provided with hyper fast degrading bags if needed but most people here just separate appropriately.

In the supermarket, you rarely see anyone buying a bag.  Even in dept stores you pay for a bag. I bought an £80 pair of Levis the other day in Debenhams and they wanted to charge 5p for a bag, so I carried them home as we have a load of bags at home and I just forgot to take one.

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32 minutes ago, monkie said:

I am rather in awe as to how badly this is being taken over here... maybe I have rose tinted glasses but when it happened in the UK my recollection is we all just shrugged and took reusable bags to the supermarket...

It's only been in 2 days. Next week it'll be old news & no-one will talk about it.

The only thing that riles me about it is that they are still selling plastic bags. If they were serious about getting rid of plastic, it wouldn't be an option, and they wouldn't be selling plastic bags of veges. It'd just be loose ones, or in string bags like onions used to come (though that was probably nylon anyway).

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Well I don't recall anyone in the UK being choked over it.  More tea, less coffee 😎

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50 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

It's only been in 2 days. Next week it'll be old news & no-one will talk about it.

The only thing that riles me about it is that they are still selling plastic bags. If they were serious about getting rid of plastic, it wouldn't be an option, and they wouldn't be selling plastic bags of veges. It'd just be loose ones, or in string bags like onions used to come (though that was probably nylon anyway).

In the UK they still had the single use ones for 5p if you wanted them. The difference was that money went to charity not to the supermarkets. Maybe having the option of having a single use bag made people calmer during the transition...

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Been back in SA for 18 months now where the bag ban has been in for years. 

Newsflash: The world didn’t end. 

By the way, we have this other silly little idea here that no one has cottoned on to for 40 years. Container Deposit Legislation. Can’t wait to see the Eastern States lose their minds over that one when it’s inevitably introduced. “What do you mean I have to pay 10c extra for my drink?” 😂😂

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2 minutes ago, downesy68 said:

Been back in SA for 18 months now where the bag ban has been in for years. 

Newsflash: The world didn’t end. 

By the way, we have this other silly little idea here that no one has cottoned on to for 40 years. Container Deposit Legislation. Can’t wait to see the Eastern States lose their minds over that one when it’s inevitably introduced. “What do you mean I have to pay 10c extra for my drink?” 😂😂

We get the refund over here already but I don't think the price went up...

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19 minutes ago, monkie said:

We get the refund over here already but I don't think the price went up...

Yeah, I’m not even sure that we actually pay more. We’re one of those terrible families that buys the 24x600ml water for my partner’s kids to take to school. It’s about $8.00 at Coles and we get $2.40 back when we return them. I know when I was living in Qld they were about $8 there. 

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A QUT study has found Woolworths & Coles are likely to make a combines profit of $71M this year on the sale of reusable plastic bags, and save a further $171M by not providing the single use ones free. 

We should be seeing some more discounts I suppose, or the farmers will get paid more. 

 

 

Did anybody see that pig fly by?

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2 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

A QUT study has found Woolworths & Coles are likely to make a combines profit of $71M this year on the sale of reusable plastic bags, and save a further $171M by not providing the single use ones free. 

We should be seeing some more discounts I suppose, or the farmers will get paid more. 

 

 

Did anybody see that pig fly by?

Hey ho. I'm sure a lot of your super is in both Woolies and Wesfarmers so we all benefit and we reduce plastic killing animals and us. Yeah Australia suffers from duopolies but that's just the way it is. To be fair they've been giving out replacement bags for free and don't seem to be planning on stopping that for a while. Here in Chatswood I went to Woolies today and everybody just put stuff in their backpacks. Hooray!

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12 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

A QUT study has found Woolworths & Coles are likely to make a combines profit of $71M this year on the sale of reusable plastic bags, and save a further $171M by not providing the single use ones free. 

We should be seeing some more discounts I suppose, or the farmers will get paid more. 

 

 

Did anybody see that pig fly by?

There is also an academic study saying that to have best effect bags should be charged for.

Whether Coles and Woolworths should benefit is a different question.

We have ****ed the environment for too long.

There is a cost to fixing it (to the extent that it ever can).

That will be a financial and inconvenience cost. It applies to the issue of single use plastic as much as it applies to electricity costs.  Yes, they will be greater.  People have to deal with it and accept that it is a direct cost of fixing what we have stuffed in the past.

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15 minutes ago, lawman said:

There is also an academic study saying that to have best effect bags should be charged for.

Whether Coles and Woolworths should benefit is a different question.

We have ****ed the environment for too long.

There is a cost to fixing it (to the extent that it ever can).

That will be a financial and inconvenience cost. It applies to the issue of single use plastic as much as it applies to electricity costs.  Yes, they will be greater.  People have to deal with it and accept that it is a direct cost of fixing what we have stuffed in the past.

I've got no issue with getting rid of the bags, but the fact that I walked into Coles yesterday and bought a plastic wrapped cucumber, then put it in another plastic bag in the fruit section, and get to the checkout to have the guy ask me if I wanted to buy a plastic bags just screams ridiculous.

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10 hours ago, monkie said:

Hey ho. I'm sure a lot of your super is in both Woolies and Wesfarmers so we all benefit and we reduce plastic killing animals and us. Yeah Australia suffers from duopolies but that's just the way it is. To be fair they've been giving out replacement bags for free and don't seem to be planning on stopping that for a while. Here in Chatswood I went to Woolies today and everybody just put stuff in their backpacks. Hooray!

That's the same as in Redfern.. (except they skip the checkout after putting the stuff in backpacks..)

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53 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I've got no issue with getting rid of the bags, but the fact that I walked into Coles yesterday and bought a plastic wrapped cucumber, then put it in another plastic bag in the fruit section, and get to the checkout to have the guy ask me if I wanted to buy a plastic bags just screams ridiculous.

Hey Ex,

Agreed, but tell me that was for effect and you didn't really ........

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4 minutes ago, lawman said:

Hey Ex,

Agreed, but tell me that was for effect and you didn't really ........

I knew I had to go to another shop to grab a couple things and figured I may as well carry them all in one bag.

Coles have absolutely no issue with putting plastic out there into the environment. I've bought a single breadroll, and was told I had to put it in one of the bags they put next to them. You can grab as many of these bread or fruit bags as you want. If I ever buy a corned beef, it comes in a plastic bag, but there's usually blood & juice on the outside, so I put it in a fruit bag as well. 

I don't think I've ever not re-used the "single use" bags though. They carry my lunch, my clothes, my shoes, and after they've done that a few times, my rubbish. I even re-use the fruit bags. They've been very handy over the years, but I suppose I'll just find something else to put all this stuff in.

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1 minute ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I knew I had to go to another shop to grab a couple things and figured I may as well carry them all in one bag.

Coles have absolutely no issue with putting plastic out there into the environment. I've bought a single breadroll, and was told I had to put it in one of the bags they put next to them. You can grab as many of these bread or fruit bags as you want. If I ever buy a corned beef, it comes in a plastic bag, but there's usually blood & juice on the outside, so I put it in a fruit bag as well. 

I don't think I've ever not re-used the "single use" bags though. They carry my lunch, my clothes, my shoes, and after they've done that a few times, my rubbish. I even re-use the fruit bags. They've been very handy over the years, but I suppose I'll just find something else to put all this stuff in.

Most people I think intend to reuse the single use supermarket ones. We have had a shopping bag holder thing hanging in our kitchen for 20 years, it used to overflow so we'd just throw out the bags from the weekly shopping every week, now that bag is empty and our car boots have the long life reusable ones.

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30 minutes ago, Parkside said:

Most people I think intend to reuse the single use supermarket ones. We have had a shopping bag holder thing hanging in our kitchen for 20 years, it used to overflow.

I think this is one of the problems. Everyone has a bag full of plastic bags somewhere in the kitchen, we use to do the groceries and come back with about 10-15 bags, there is no way we were reusing all of them each week. So then ended up going into the bin. 

 

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13 "reusable" plastic bags will add less than $2 to your weekly shop and make you feel good that you are doing something to help the environment.  Next shop you invariably forget your bags, berate yourself and pay another $2.  It will reduce the issue a little as people don't take bags for one or two item shops but the reality is that the people who actually care enough about the issue were undoubtedly already using reusable bags.  $2 a week is not enough incentive to change behaviour.

Numerous studies have shown that when people do something that makes them feel good they are more likely to do something bad in the same field because it is already offset by the previous action.  It's one of the reasons why a day of dieting often ends in a food based treat and why people who pay extra for renewable energy are far less likely to make any attempt to cut their power usage in spite of the fact that the higher price makes it more rewarding to do so.

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20 hours ago, Stikman said:

$2 a week is not enough incentive to change bbehavior

5p a bag did in the UK...

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So there's been uproar about Coles deciding to give away the reusable bags indefinitely.  Now the end date has been set as 28 August, which happens to be two days after their special promotion giveaway of the little plastic grocery items!  A lake memo to store managers has revealed that Coles decided to giveaway the plastic bags for free because the promotion has been quite successful and by giving away plastic shopping bags it will quicken things at the register so they can get through more people causing less annoyance for shoppers while more people are shopping to collect more mini plastic toy grocery items which are wrapped in plastic.

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On ‎4‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 8:12 PM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

A QUT study has found Woolworths & Coles are likely to make a combines profit of $71M this year on the sale of reusable plastic bags, and save a further $171M by not providing the single use ones free. 

lol

This whole 'issue' is all kinds of awesome

A greeny so-called initiative that will both raise revenue and cut costs for big evil corporations whilst doing three-fifths of f*ck all for the environment

Well done guys, keep it up

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On 07/08/2018 at 4:03 PM, IronJimbo said:

lol

This whole 'issue' is all kinds of awesome

A greeny so-called initiative that will both raise revenue and cut costs for big evil corporations whilst doing three-fifths of f*ck all for the environment

Well done guys, keep it up

How on earth do you work out it does nothing for the environment?? Here's some reading: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=impact+of+plastic+bag+tax+uk

As to everything else, surely something that improves the environment by reducing lightweight waste and also benefits the economy is the dream right? I'm quite happy that my super fund gets to make a profit whilst nudging people towards producing less waste.

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5 hours ago, monkie said:

How on earth do you work out it does nothing for the environment?? Here's some reading: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=impact+of+plastic+bag+tax+uk

As to everything else, surely something that improves the environment by reducing lightweight waste and also benefits the economy is the dream right? I'm quite happy that my super fund gets to make a profit whilst nudging people towards producing less waste.

Do any of those articles take into account any increase in sales of bin liners to replace shopping bags?

Those are the companies which your super fund should be investing in

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Damn straight!  I'm burning through my stockpile, less than 10 bags left, then I'll be buying some!

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39 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Do any of those articles take into account any increase in sales of bin liners to replace shopping bags?

Those are the companies which your super fund should be investing in

 

😴 Really? You reckon people will just go out and spend money on buying replacements? Or maybe they'll find alternatives. However none of that is relevant to the removal of lightweight plastic bags from the waste chain which is literally the only point of this.

Fewer plastic bags on the ocean floor. That's cool. Fewer lightweight plastic bags being in the waste chain = fewer plastic bags in the trees = fewer plastic bags in the digestive tracts of wildlife. That's cool. Making consumers be mindful about their waste decisions. That's cool.

Do you have any evidence at all that all the good stuff above is doing "three fifths of **** all" for the environment or is that just your opinion? You're welcome to it, the data would suggest you are wrong.

Also, buy bio-degradable bin liners. Simple.

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39 minutes ago, goughy said:

Damn straight!  I'm burning through my stockpile, less than 10 bags left, then I'll be buying some!

Great. Go bio degradable.

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There was an interesting story recently on SMH about some trials of using plastic bags as a partial replacement of the tar component in asphalt used for road construction.

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30 minutes ago, XCOM! said:

There was an interesting story recently on SMH about some trials of using plastic bags as a partial replacement of the tar component in asphalt used for road construction.

In the Shire

https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/5566192/recycled-plastic-bags-used-in-asphalt-laid-on-old-princes-highway/

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3 hours ago, monkie said:

 

😴 Really? You reckon people will just go out and spend money on buying replacements? Or maybe they'll find alternatives. However none of that is relevant to the removal of lightweight plastic bags from the waste chain which is literally the only point of this.

Fewer plastic bags on the ocean floor. That's cool. Fewer lightweight plastic bags being in the waste chain = fewer plastic bags in the trees = fewer plastic bags in the digestive tracts of wildlife. That's cool. Making consumers be mindful about their waste decisions. That's cool.

Do you have any evidence at all that all the good stuff above is doing "three fifths of **** all" for the environment or is that just your opinion? You're welcome to it, the data would suggest you are wrong.

Also, buy bio-degradable bin liners. Simple.

So you want me to buy thicker biodegradable bin liners instead of biodegradable shopping bags...

What do you propose we do about countries like China, Indonesia and the Philippines as the source of the vast majority of plastic bags in the oceans?

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To refute an above assertion with some facts taken from https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/case-study/plastic-bag-charge-in-the-uk/  Charging 5p a bag reduced plastic bags issued in UK by 80% and plastic bags found on sea floor by 30%. Retailers largely donate the 5p to charity 'the government estimates that, by 2025, it will have resulted in GBP730 million in retailers’ charitable donations." 

These results appear to be consistent across every country to have introduced similar schemes. If Australia can replicate these results I'm happy with that 3/5 of whatever quoted above.

And to illustrate a personal experience: since recycling soft plastics in redcycle bins a month or two ago, we have never used more than one bin liner a week. We have a large bin in our kitchen with a black garbage bag and often would produce 2 or more a week (doing the dodgy bin-poach on the neighbours many Sunday nights). We have halved our bin liner consumption. You can still use your paid-for resuable plastic bags for whatever refuse you choose. And it's better to buy biodegradable dog poo bags than a massive shopping bag for a dog crap. Or wrap it in The Australian or Telegraph

Edited by Parkside
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