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Active fees

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I contact Active as their website states "no processing fee" for those who pay $80 for membership.
However this isn't actually true. I contacted them and they said its up to $10 off the processing fee (If a race is cheap enough this could potentially mean that there is no processing fee) Obviously not the case for those entering Ironman and 70.3 events.

Can anyone explain to me how a company can warrant charging 8% to enter is some details?

Can Ironman not do this or find someone who does it for less?

I also don't understand how Ironman can state an entry fee seperate of the processing fee as it is part of entering is it not?

Legally I don't understand how companies are able to get away with being misleading 
 

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Bit of a discussion going on about the Active fees in the GC Worlds Team facebook group too. It is a rort. I doubt anyone could explain it.

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Easy solution - don't enter!  The fact there's a service fee (no matter how ridiculous) is not hidden.  You either accept it or you don't, if you don't then don't enter.

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This is one thing I have never understood why they have to advertise this fee.  There are so many fees broken down in your entry to any race, can you imagine if they listed seperately every single one?  Ie on course nutrition fee, some people take all their own fuel so I assume if they saw what they charge each person for that those people would be up in arms.  Same as the swim course setup and insuarance fee for races in WA...

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46 minutes ago, goughy said:

Easy solution - don't enter!  The fact there's a service fee (no matter how ridiculous) is not hidden.  You either accept it or you don't, if you don't then don't enter.

I accept it, but still think it is a rort.

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1 hour ago, goughy said:

Easy solution - don't enter!  The fact there's a service fee (no matter how ridiculous) is not hidden.  You either accept it or you don't, if you don't then don't enter.

Agree, people will whinge about the fee & then pay it.

I think paying $12 for a hotdog at the footy is a rort but I still pay it.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Bored@work said:

Agree, people will whinge about the fee & then pay it.

I think paying $12 for a hotdog at the footy is a rort but I still pay it.

 

 

$12!!!!  Holy crap i havent been to the footy in years.... thats inflation for you!

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Go to the movies and but a frozen Coke.  Something like $7 each.  Actually, just go to the movies!!!!!

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12 minutes ago, goughy said:

Go to the movies and but a frozen Coke.  Something like $7 each.  Actually, just go to the movies!!!!!

Bugger me, haven't done that for years either......

Edited by Pencil_Towel
spelling mistake

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2 adults and 2 kids at the movies and snack bar and you won't get any change from about $130 (paying full price of course, who does that).  Discount tickets, water bottles and snacks from Coles.

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I stand to be corrected here but my understanding is that a decent portion (c50%) is a rebate provided back to the race organiser. So the race doesn't want to give it up as it is income for them and if an alternative provider comes in with a cheaper offer, the race organiser isn't sold on it as they don't get their rebate because they are worse off. If they do get a rebate then it pushes the price higher back towards Active territory and they don't see the need to change.

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As I have said on another Active thread, surely it it was that much of a money spinner, with all its resources Wanda (Ironman) would simply have made their own. 

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Easy solution - don't enter!  The fact there's a service fee (no matter how ridiculous) is not hidden.  You either accept it or you don't, if you don't then don't enter.

No I dont agree, we should protest against it rather than accept it as a rip off.

Over $500 net to enter a 70.3 race is just that  a rip off

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11 minutes ago, roxii said:

As I have said on another Active thread, surely it it was that much of a money spinner, with all its resources Wanda (Ironman) would simply have made their own. 

They should buy ACTIVE as well if they don't already have an interest.

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I challenged this active fee when the government brought in new laws last september regarding payment fees. The laws in short said you could only charge what you were being charged.

So I went to ironf*cks and said whats the go, there response was and I quote

"The 8% processing fee is imposed by Active to use their registration system.  This applies to any events that use the Active Network to take registrations, not just IRONMAN events. 

The 8% is the total processing fee imposed by The ACTIVE Network, LLC, or its applicable subsidiary, (collectively ACTIVE) including sums charged by ACTIVE as consideration for providing its software and services (including without limitation promotional and marketing services) to the activity organizer. These sums, as part of the total processing fee, are in addition to any actual costs incurred by ACTIVE from third party providers for each transaction."

 

So if you were to ask for a breakdown of the costs you could probably challenge it further but since they claim that it's for marketing etc you probably shit out of luck unless youve got some big legal balls.

Another issue with the ironf*cks is i believe(it may have changed since i last read) it's illegal to not allow a way to pay for an item/service that doesn't incur a fee. Merchants have to accept a fee free form of payment ie cash

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Book a movie ticket online. 

$10 discount ticket. $1.40 booking fee.

 

That's 14%. Don't tell active.

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Where do you get tickets for $10???.  The online booking fee is a flat rate per ticket.  Up here adult tickets are $20, children $16.

Worth it to not have to queue up, plus you get to see the faces of all those in the regular queue that are spewing they you walked straight up!

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3 minutes ago, goughy said:

Where do you get tickets for $10???.  The online booking fee is a flat rate per ticket.  Up here adult tickets are $20, children $16.

Worth it to not have to queue up, plus you get to see the faces of all those in the regular queue that are spewing they you walked straight up!

Normal prices are $13 - $17, so it's still more than Active. We are in Cinebuz. No joining fee, & flat rate of $10 per ticket at Events Cinemas.

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it's not owned by active anymore... this mob bought it because I think there is a pretty solid contract for them to provide services to IM. 

story here

Company details below

Global Payments Inc.
Public
Traded as NYSEGPN
S&P 500 Component
Industry Payment processing
Founded

2000; 18 years ago, as a National Data Corporation subsidiary

2001; 17 years ago, spun off from parent company
Headquarters Atlanta, Georgia, U.S.
Key people
William I. Jacobs
(Chairman of the Board)
Jeffrey S. Sloan
(CEO)
Cameron M. Bready
(Executive VP & CFO)
Revenue Increase US$ 3.98 billion (2017)
Increase US$ 558.87 million (2017)
Increase US$ 494.07 million (2017)
Total assets Increase US$ 13.00 billion (2017)
Total equity Increase US$ 3.97 billion (2017)
Number of employees
~10,000 (2017)

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53 minutes ago, goughy said:

Where do you get tickets for $10???.  The online booking fee is a flat rate per ticket.  Up here adult tickets are $20, children $16.

Worth it to not have to queue up, plus you get to see the faces of all those in the regular queue that are spewing they you walked straight up!

$8.50 at my local cinema chain, they have all the big movies.

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1 hour ago, goughy said:

Where do you get tickets for $10???.  The online booking fee is a flat rate per ticket.  Up here adult tickets are $20, children $16.

Worth it to not have to queue up, plus you get to see the faces of all those in the regular queue that are spewing they you walked straight up!

Go to cineplex. Heaps cheaper. Snacks too! 

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5 hours ago, goughy said:

Easy solution - don't enter!  The fact there's a service fee (no matter how ridiculous) is not hidden.  You either accept it or you don't, if you don't then don't enter.

Where is the logic in that?
Do you not like to see change in the world or do just choose to cop it expecting nothing to change and tell others to live the same way?

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WTC could just bundle it into the overall cost like some race organisers do. Then you would be none the wiser about the charge. But they are showing it separate hence transparency.

What i don't understand is if i enter a $200 race and get charges 8% Active fee, and enter a $900 race and get charged the 8%, i get the same service from Active in collecting the info for the race organiser, etc

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5 hours ago, goughy said:

Easy solution - don't enter!  The fact there's a service fee (no matter how ridiculous) is not hidden.  You either accept it or you don't, if you don't then don't enter.

It's not like buying coffee where the new coffee shop is charging $5 for a small and you go, that's BS, I'll go 3 doors up and buy a coffee for $3.

So your solution isn't easy as you say..

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15 minutes ago, Peter said:

It's not like buying coffee where the new coffee shop is charging $5 for a small and you go, that's BS, I'll go 3 doors up and buy a coffee for $3.

So your solution isn't easy as you say..

U don't have to drink coffee

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2 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Normal prices are $13 - $17, so it's still more than Active. We are in Cinebuz. No joining fee, & flat rate of $10 per ticket at Events Cinemas.

Normal prices up here are 16 to 20, and I'm a member of cinebuzz and don't get anything like that discount for movies!  Tell us your secrets oh wise one?

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57 minutes ago, Cranky said:

Go to cineplex. Heaps cheaper. Snacks too! 

Sure, 2 hour drive..... Only one choice up here.  Every independent cinema that's tried to get council approval gets knocked back.

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IMO going to the movies is a total waste of money. 

 

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My opinion is that it should be tested with respect to third line forcing.  By law you can't sell a product on the condition that the customer also purchases from a third party.  By separating the Active fee from the race cost and providing no other way to enter you are being forced to buy the services of Active in order to by the service offered by Ironman.

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5 hours ago, Stikman said:

My opinion is that it should be tested with respect to third line forcing.  By law you can't sell a product on the condition that the customer also purchases from a third party.  By separating the Active fee from the race cost and providing no other way to enter you are being forced to buy the services of Active in order to by the service offered by Ironman.

 

Ditto

remember "legal tender" ? 

there should always be a way to pay domestic entry fees in cash

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22 hours ago, Pencil_Towel said:

$12!!!!  Holy crap i havent been to the footy in years.... thats inflation for you!

No no.... 

This is inflation 😎🤘

images (8).jpeg

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The ACCC cracked down on power balance bands as bullsh@t - the active fee is hardly any better.

Not to mention WTC’s transfer policy...

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4 hours ago, trilobite said:

The ACCC cracked down on power balance bands as bullsh@t - the active fee is hardly any better.

Not to mention WTC’s transfer policy...

So report them. 

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On 15/06/2018 at 11:58 AM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Book a movie ticket online. 

$10 discount ticket. $1.40 booking fee.

 

That's 14%. Don't tell active.

We got movie ticket voucher for Xmas. Wife and I went Gold Class last night and booked on line. $20 each + $3 booking fee each. WTF, how does that work. I do all the work for them and they charge me.

Again make ACTIVE look good

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get on to your tri club presidents. they cant do anything about Ironman but they do control TA charging this via the state boards they elect and nomination via the state boards to the ta  board.  They can turn this off if they want too.

In the old days when it first happened, the sport use to absorb the fee's but they changed their operating rhythm and started passing it on.

The argument about a hot dog costs $10 or a bike $10k so you should shut up and accept having your wallet trawled is fanciful.  Whats a bank charge for a visa or MC transaction, or is that they are efficient so its lower.

 

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Nah they're saying they take none of the registration fees. Note the registration fee is different to the extra fee active charges on top of this. Active still makes their extra 8% or whatever, they just don't take any of the registration. 

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When we set up an event in Active's system, we choose to have the processing fee included in the total price we advertise to enter our race(Hervey Bay 100, 50 & Barge2Beach). 8% is an interesting amount that Ironman/Active charge. Think about that..........

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24 minutes ago, Jeff said:

When we set up an event in Active's system, we choose to have the processing fee included in the total price we advertise to enter our race(Hervey Bay 100, 50 & Barge2Beach). 8% is an interesting amount that Ironman/Active charge. Think about that..........

If thats the case I cant work out why is it advertised and not just included in the initial cost?  Is it law they have to advertise it?

 

 

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Surely processing th info would be a fixed cost to a database. 

I think its screwy it's a percentage, rather than a flat rate. 

Does it cost them more to process an entry worth $800 than one worth $200? I'd think not

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Just now, Turts said:

Surely processing th info would be a fixed cost to a database. 

I think its screwy it's a percentage, rather than a flat rate. 

Does it cost them more to process an entry worth $800 than one worth $200? I'd think not

 

I do think there are some costs involved from the banks (and possibly tax implications) as the bank that Active uses will most probably also charge their transaction fee at a % so YES it can cost more to process a larger figure. 

Remember that they have to accept, hold and then forward the amounts charged but only retain the Active fee, so essentially $100 might go into their account, but only $8 stays there after the entry fee is forwarded on to the race organisation.

Some "entry portals" can charge a % flat rate, others may charge the bank fee, say 2% on the whole number, plus a flat rate processing fee of $20 or something. 

 

 

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Eventplus charge a flat rate when I last checked. 

Only the Credit card fees would grow with race cost entry. 

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1 hour ago, roxii said:

Remember that they have to accept, hold and then forward the amounts charged but only retain the Active fee, so essentially $100 might go into their account, but only $8 stays there after the entry fee is forwarded on to the race organisation.

How long do they hold it in their account before sending it on? I wouldn't mind holding a few million dollars in my account earning interest then handing back 92% of it.

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I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure there are some pretty strict tax implications as you need to explain to the tax dept and feds why there is a huge amount of money passing through your account but you aren't showing it as income or paying tax. 

Big Chris may be able to chime in here as he does this stuff for online entries. 

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I stopped doing ironman branded events long ago. They are thieves. Plenty of better races around.

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22 hours ago, roxii said:

I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure there are some pretty strict tax implications as you need to explain to the tax dept and feds why there is a huge amount of money passing through your account but you aren't showing it as income or paying tax. 

Big Chris may be able to chime in here as he does this stuff for online entries. 

Since the IM brand and associated IP are presumably owned somewhere offshore (ie subject to lower tax rates than in Australia), it would be interesting to know what intragroup fees are charged to use that branding and IP in Australia and the margin that is left as subject to tax here.

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