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Kona qualifier 15+

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7 minutes ago, chappy019 said:

 

I just don't understand how there doesn't seem to be the same conversation about athletes who "qualify" to represent Australia in years where the event is held overseas where qualification is essentially pay to go and few if any age groups take the maximum allocation per age group. ? 

 

That topic has been done to death over the years too.  

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1 hour ago, Bored@work said:

Can you please quote Peter as saying he was not impressed? Peter loves Kona & keeps trying to get me to race there. 

You are also wrong re qualifying for Kona, I would have got a spot when I raced the XC class but I didn't go to roll downs. This was achieved using the same brocken process that allows you to qualify every year. 

I can see how you love the current system, Kona is your life, your income and the thing that give you purpose in life. 

The topic was driven by Trilobite who started the thread, I simply highlighted facts & numbers to support my believe the system could be improved to make in fairer for the majority of ppl. 

 

So go fk yourself. 

For completeness, I did not start the thread.

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20 minutes ago, trilobite said:

For completeness, I did not start the thread.

Sorry about that, I was on my phone & must not have scrolled up enough.

My message remains the same :) 

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1 hour ago, Turts said:

That topic has been done to death over the years too.  

Well there you go! Apologies if that opens a hornets nest!

It seems that regardless of how much of society today is geared towards anti bullying, inclusion and the like, almost all facets still suffer from some degree of wanting to devalue other people's achievements.

Can't we all just get along? *insert multiple giant sized sarcastic emoji's

 

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3 hours ago, FFF1077 said:

But if you took the top 50 AGers, wouldn't you only have a shit tonne of a certain bracket? 

 

Like at Busso when you have a heap of younger men going 9-10hrs. 

And that would not represent the whole field. BUT, I guess it would represent the "best" 

Yeah good point.

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14 hours ago, Bored@work said:

I would be happier if the spots were allocated by age group but age groups with low number got rolled up into the next age group with a handicap applied. 

This way you don't  have 1 spot for 10 people or less. It's BS & makes a joke out of the qualifying process. Make it a minimum of 50 per bracket etc 

15:2X & getting a spot for Kona is taking the piss. 

Can't agree more.

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6 hours ago, AP said:

Thanks Paul Every for a balanced reply to the thread

What's interesting here is that most of the debate is being driven by one guy who did Kona as a legacy lottery athlete and has said he was not impressed - and the other one who has said on many occasions that he has no interest in going to Kona (and that's good because he would never qualify anyway)

But so much passion from two disinterested blokes - a girl who wanted to go got the chance of a lifetime and these two debate the legitimacy of the whole process for page after page

Thanks again Paul for adding a bit of common sense to the debate 😎

As I said earlier, the main aim is to maintain the integrity and credibility of this sport and the "World Championship".  It's great having 70 year olds doing it and people that have survived cancer etc etc We need a diverse group of participants, as Sam alluded to. We don't want 2000 18 - 24 year old blokes, but we need to find a way of maintaining diversity whilst maintaining integrity. Finishing last in your AG and qualifying with 15 hours+ is not good for the sport and is probably not good for the individual. What does this woman do now, when she moves up an AG she will have to go 5 hours quicker to KQ. She'll probably quit. I'm happy for her she's going, but I'm not sure how you or anyone else can argue this is good for the sport and the credibility of the World Champs?  

 

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22 minutes ago, chappy019 said:

devalue other people's achievements.

 

 

Kona is the holy grail, I think people have an issue with that being devalued, not a case of devaluing someone's achievement. The qualifying process is the problem. As someone else said earlier, chuck all the participants from the AGs with low numbers together, F18-24, M70-74 etc and give them 3 spots or whatever. 

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2 minutes ago, zed said:

It's great having 70 year olds doing it and people that have survived cancer etc etc We need a diverse group of participants, as Sam alluded to. We don't want 2000 18 - 24 year old blokes, but we need to find a way of maintaining diversity whilst maintaining integrity.

And that's where Age Grading comes in. You get the best of each AG. If there are no "good" athletes in a particular AG at a race, then none from that group get to go, but if there is a really good performance by a 70yr old, then they certainly qualify.

At the moment, you could get the situation of a 68yr old not qualifying with a time that is 2 hours faster than a 63yr old due the the luck of the draw in the current system. Age Grading totally eliminates that.

 

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10 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

And that's where Age Grading comes in. You get the best of each AG. If there are no "good" athletes in a particular AG at a race, then none from that group get to go, but if there is a really good performance by a 70yr old, then they certainly qualify.

At the moment, you could get the situation of a 68yr old not qualifying with a time that is 2 hours faster than a 63yr old due the the luck of the draw in the current system. Age Grading totally eliminates that.

 

Sounds like a great idea. Young lady qualified in a time slower than a 70 year old woman and 80 year old man and she's in her prime.... I think age grading is an awesome idea. Is it done in any other sports? 

 

AP (or anyone else) would you have a problem with age grading?

Edited by zed

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Alan in the past have you taken aim at able bodied men under 50 who can't crack a certain time or qualify as not wanting it enough?

 

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2 hours ago, chappy019 said:

So i guess if we are changing the Kona qualification to the best 50 across any age group we should do the same for the ITU world champs as well?

I am an average 70.3 and olympic distance athlete so either are of no bearing to me personally.

I just don't understand how there doesn't seem to be the same conversation about athletes who "qualify" to represent Australia in years where the event is held overseas where qualification is essentially pay to go and few if any age groups take the maximum allocation per age group. Are they any less worthy of calling themselves an australian representative then this girl is of a Kona qualifier? 

It's not like the qualification process for Kona isn't known before the event - no one can complain that the goal posts are moved on them after the fact.

Actually that conversation has been had quite a few times. And there are people who get worked up about that subject too. 

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3 minutes ago, A2K said:

Actually that conversation has been had quite a few times. And there are people who get worked up about that subject too. 

aint that the truth..

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AP (or anyone else) would you have a problem with age grading?

I don't have a problem with the present system - each age group gets a place - if you think its soft and you want it - turn up - if you sit back behind your keyboard bitchin about it - but you don't enter what have you got to say

Whatever they change it to - if they bother to change it based on the opinions of a small minority of people who hardly ever race - then I'd still be racing because I enjoy the whole process - the training - the racing - the roll downs - the presentations and the after party :whistling:

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3 minutes ago, AP said:

I don't have a problem with the present system - each age group gets a place - if you think its soft and you want it - turn up - if you sit back behind your keyboard bitchin about it - but you don't enter what have you got to say

Whatever they change it to - if they bother to change it based on the opinions of a small minority of people who hardly ever race - then I'd still be racing because I enjoy the whole process - the training - the racing - the roll downs - the presentations and the after party :whistling:

Cool.

I'm just shootin' the sh!t not bitchin' :)

 

Edited by zed
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21 minutes ago, AP said:

I don't have a problem with the present system

Of course you don't. You benefit from the system.

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I completely understand as athletes the "feel" of the devaluation of the qualification process.

but doesn't an organisation who by it's own admission offers spots that can be auctioned off to the highest bidder to attend, devalue its own world championship / brand? Surely if they as the owners of the event don't have a problem with its commercialisation / devaluation do any of us really think that they have an issue with the qualifying times of its attendees?

To me it's kind of like the active fee conversation - you know the rules and either opt in and play by them or you don't. Opting in and then complaining about them after the fact is pointless.

 

 

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I remember being st cairns in 2015 and Pete Murray said at the start of roll down "this system just works" I missed by one spot and honestly could not agree more.  

 

Also to the person who said she came last in her age group, she also came second.

 

Edit to add - I am in an easy age group though so my opinion may be biased.

Edited by RunBrettRun
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14 minutes ago, chappy019 said:

I completely understand as athletes the "feel" of the devaluation of the qualification process.

but doesn't an organisation who by it's own admission offers spots that can be auctioned off to the highest bidder to attend, devalue its own world championship / brand? Surely if they as the owners of the event don't have a problem with its commercialisation / devaluation do any of us really think that they have an issue with the qualifying times of its attendees?

 

 

 

Yeah the point is moot. Ironman couldn't give a f**k. Lottery, celebrity spots, legend status etc etc It's a shame Challenge aren't proving more of a competition to them, they just do what they want. It's all about the $$.

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38 minutes ago, AP said:

I don't have a problem with the present system

 

16 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Of course you don't. You benefit from the system.

Given that AP often podiums at Kona, he would most likely qualify using age grading as well. You still get the best of each AG along, but you just don't get the ones lucky enough to be in a small AG and get a KQ with a time 2 hours slower than the winner of that AG.

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Anyone care to let me know what a young female needs to do in order to legitimately qualify and not be questioned or scrutinized by the tri community? 

 

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1 minute ago, Tossacoin said:

Anyone care to let me know what a young female needs to do in order to legitimately qualify and not be questioned or scrutinized by the tri community? 

 

She's not being questioned, the qualification process and "World Championship" status is being questioned. The qualification process is flawed and calling the race a "World Championship" is a misnomer. 

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7 minutes ago, Tossacoin said:

Anyone care to let me know what a young female needs to do in order to legitimately qualify and not be questioned or scrutinized by the tri community? 

 

3 minutes ago, zed said:

She's not being questioned, the qualification process and "World Championship" status is being questioned. The qualification process is flawed and calling the race a "World Championship" is a misnomer. 

Finally.  Thankyou.  Not one person has questioned this girl getting a spot doing 15hrs.  She raced.  She came second.  She qualified.

 

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