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Karl Stefanovic backs us

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I thought he’d be the last person. He holds a bit of weight around the place and this is worth way more than 87,000 idiots that signed the petition  

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/karl-stefanovic-backs-cyclists-as-road-rule-petition-blows-up/news-story/b1a71b37798718661546edfe6db3923b

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I'm actually sick of the whole debate.  It's not helping anyone, and just making everyone angry.

Edited by goughy
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Just now, goughy said:

I'm actually such of the whole debate.  It's not getting anyone, and just making everyone angry.

Me too. It is actually scary reading some of the tripe on the comments on FB articles. I dont know how RBR does it as he spends a lot of time replying to that guff...

the thing is though. If this law was passed, would it all be rosy between cars and drivers? No of course not, it would just be onto the next thing:

  • cyclists dont obey the road rules (like saying all drivers are drink drivers and pretty funny when most dont know the rules that cyclists are allowed to ride 2 a breast, rid eon footpaths etc).
  • why do they use the roads when they dont pay for them via rego.. (um duh, if rego paid for roads then roads in QLD would be pretty crap if we only spent $1.5B a year on them and Id hazard most cyclists pay higher income taxes than most of these bogans in the comments anyway..)
  • I had to wait behind one while racing to my friends for an emergency (for what, 30 secs? and what was the emergency (run out of mixer for their JD probably) and why didnt you call 000 if it was an emergency)

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Yeah something has got to give at some point.  The anger is completely unjustified.

 

Pieman I dont comment as much as i used to, there is no point you get no logic out of people.  Even here in Port Mac there is a local Wauchope page, when I explained that it was safer to ride out around the back of wauchope up to Papinbarah  where you might see 2 cars vs riding the ironman loop where you might see 200, the response was that 2 cars can still kill you.  Just blows me away how they come up with these thought up situations where a cyclist will magically jump in their way on a country road cause they have to do 80kph around a blind corner cause that's what the sign tells them to do.

 

At the moment I can't even see how they can start to shift the thinking unless more people like Karl get on board.

 

 

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1 minute ago, RunBrettRun said:

Yeah something has got to give at some point.  The anger is completely unjustified.

 

Pieman I dont comment as much as i used to, there is no point you get no logic out of people.  Even here in Port Mac there is a local Wauchope page, when I explained that it was safer to ride out around the back of wauchope up to Papinbarah  where you might see 2 cars vs riding the ironman loop where you might see 200, the response was that 2 cars can still kill you.  Just blows me away how they come up with these thought up situations where a cyclist will magically jump in their way on a country road cause they have to do 80kph around a blind corner cause that's what the sign tells them to do.

 

At the moment I can't even see how they can start to shift the thinking unless more people like Karl get on board.

 

 

Yeah I know mate. I saw a couple of crazies on there saying "what if I come over a crest and see a cyclist riding on the shoulder,what am I supposed to do to avoid them cos I cant cross into oncoming traffic.." well what would you do if it was a broken down car over the crest, or backed up traffic, or a dead cow? FFS, drive with a bit more thought and be prepared to slow down, stop and wait for 10 seconds and then pass the obstruction...

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4 minutes ago, pieman said:

Yeah I know mate. I saw a couple of crazies on there saying "what if I come over a crest and see a cyclist riding on the shoulder,what am I supposed to do to avoid them cos I cant cross into oncoming traffic.." well what would you do if it was a broken down car over the crest, or backed up traffic, or a dead cow? FFS, drive with a bit more thought and be prepared to slow down, stop and wait for 10 seconds and then pass the obstruction...

I live down the road from a crest and the amount of cars that pass me when riding on the crest is amazing.  People assume there is never anything coming the other way.  

FWIW i ride solo all the time and i cannot say single file changes attitudes.  I can be a 3-4 lane road and yet you still drivers whinge and moan on the horn for taking up 1/8th of a lane where they 3 others to choose from.  Yet u meet them again at the next lights so really they achieve nothing

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1 minute ago, Fitness Buddy said:

I live down the road from a crest and the amount of cars that pass me when riding on the crest is amazing.  People assume there is never anything coming the other way.  

FWIW i ride solo all the time and i cannot say single file changes attitudes.  I can be a 3-4 lane road and yet you still drivers whinge and moan on the horn for taking up 1/8th of a lane where they 3 others to choose from.  Yet u meet them again at the next lights so really they achieve nothing

I think thats a big part of their problem sometimes...

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Or on the flip side you meet them at coles or woolworths and say gday and they are nice as pie, put them behind the wheel and you on a bike and they completely flip out?  

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I live in a town of <20k people, & im no longer on FB, but when i was and I was out for a ride on a Sunday arvo which generally means less people out driving up here as the West coast eagles or freo are playing which means they are all at home drinking copious amounts of Emu Export.  I was deliberately  targeted by a Ute with P plates on, something was thrown at me and the verbal spray i received was shocking as it drove past slowly.  I immediately pulled over got my phone out of back pocket and posted on the local FB group to whoever just attacked me to come back and front up to me man to man and have a real go if they are so worried about a cyclist riding safely in the bicycle lane.  I waited for nearly half an hour....but nope the gutless P.O.S never showed up despite plenty of replies to my post including who i believe was responsible for it.

The majority of their attacks on cyclist are totally  unfounded!

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It is about people being narcissistic and selfish, on both sides!  Most cyclists I see so the right thing, but some don't.  Most motorists do the right thing too, but some don't.  I live in a place renowned for having some of the worst drivers around.  Yet I rarely have any issues.

87000 is a pittance nationally, considering how back the angry unwashed masses are.  And the media themselves have done as much as they can to keep this fight going.  And that exasperates things.  

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I don't ride or run on the roads round here but back "home" I will run around my village where some sections don't have a pavement. I run 1m out from the verge so that people have to make a conscious decision to go around me. I had one memorable incident when somebody leant on the horn, I carried on, they screamed round me and then pulled up, jumped out and saw it was me (this is a village of about 10k people and I know a lot of them) they couldn't have been more apologetic... I asked what they would have done if it was somebody else... they didn't have an answer. Everybody just needs to chill out but if they do want a barney then I'm happy to oblige :)

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I think this sums up where things are on our roads at the moment.

 

6 months ago i was driving out of my street and came to a T intersection where a car was waiting with its right hand indicator on, a car was approaching from the right continuing on the road and at the last minute the car in front pulled out in front of the car already on the road.  The car that was driving through put on the brakes and stopped so he didn't hit the car that pulled in front of him, he waited for the car to pass then drove off.  He never hit his horn, never threw his hands in the air, simply stopped and then continued with his day.  All I could think was what a F#@king psycho, surely he is on his way to kill someone.

 

It did blow me away that I thought this was not normal behaviour though  

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From the Safe Cycling FB page about the guy who started the petition.
 
19105649_1444831408897591_35210125592228
 
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Background on the page owner and sole admin of Drivers for registration of cyclists, Gold Coast based and disgraced former competitive cyclist 27a1.png?_nc_eui2=AeHD1TbXTF7kwFYwWBLzS9➡️27a1.png?_nc_eui2=AeHD1TbXTF7kwFYwWBLzS9➡️27a1.png?_nc_eui2=AeHD1TbXTF7kwFYwWBLzS9➡️ Ivan Vetsich 2b05.png?_nc_eui2=AeHZcLwPY8apP3qsccT8NK⬅️2b05.png?_nc_eui2=AeHZcLwPY8apP3qsccT8NK⬅️2b05.png?_nc_eui2=AeHZcLwPY8apP3qsccT8NK⬅️

Advice to all cyclists worldwide, but particularly those in Australia, and those in Southeast Queensland. The owner of the page "Drivers for Registration of Cyclists" (or "Single File Please") is former cyclist turned vigilante, who believes it is okay to misappropriate photos, to attach fake comments ("from innocent motorists"), to alter the images or take them out of context, and to INCITE AGGRESSION AND VIOLENCE towards cyclists by other road users.

This individual has been stalking local riders, trawling the internet, collecting photos (not his own), altering or otherwise misrepresenting them, and reposting them on his own page, in order to create division and hatred between motorists and cyclists. You might be inclined to ask, "Why?"

As mentioned, he is a former cyclist. He used to make it his mission as a cyclist to prove how "strong" he was, by riding off the front of groups, encouraging racing, tailgating motor vehicles, and otherwise disrupting the group he was supposedly a part of. The usual result? He would be asked to leave the group, because his behaviours were causing problems.

You'd think it might stop there? NO! This individual would then go on to create "splinter groups" (by selectively grooming others who he felt were "too strong and could benefit from better training") whose sole purpose was to compete with, and humiliate, the group he had just been banned from. His splinter groups would gather a short distance from the target group, wait 5 minutes after the target group had left, and then chase them down along the known route . . . harassing and disrupting the target group as they went past (3 or 4 abreast, mind you!).

As a result, this individual has been banned from every ride group and club on the Gold Coast (and possibly elsewhere). He has thankfully not been seen riding his bike in over a year . . . which is a good thing, considering the number of serious accidents he himself has caused. (A couple of years ago he was going too fast on a descent, couldn't hold his line, crossed to the OTHER side of the road, and took out a cyclist who was coming up! Naturally, he made no restitution to the guy whose bike he destroyed.)

This individual has created fake accounts on Facebook in order to stalk people. He has created fake accounts in local cycling clubs, in order to stalk groups. He has created fake Strava accounts (one he arrogantly called "Strava Admin"!), so that he could pretend to "admire" a rider's efforts, while at the same time actually reposting that rider's data in order to critique it and make fun of it. 

This individual is pretty good with photo-shop too, so one can never trust the veracity of the images he posts. Your group went through a green light at an intersection? He can show a photo where it was red. Your group was avoiding a hazard on the road, by going out into the traffic lane. He can show that there was no hazard. One of your riders took a photo of the group at the roadside, dealing with a fallen rider? He will show that an upset motorist took the photo and witnessed the crash.

This post is just to advise you all, but particularly those in Southeast Queensland, Australia, that a conscienceless, manipulative, deceitful, disgraced and hatred-inciting vigilante is out there, and YOU are on his radar. If you so much as sneeze while you're riding your bike on a public road, he will somehow post a photo of you causing traffic chaos while disobeying road rules.

WATCH OUT FOR THE CRAZED VIGILANTE!

(And if enough people complain to Facebook about his activities, perhaps he will get shut down.)

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So what exactly do you do about a person like this?  Out them? How, and to who?  And would motorists even care?  

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5 hours ago, goughy said:

I'm actually sick of the whole debate.  It's not helping anyone, and just making everyone angry.

Just allow us to pay rego and then we can ride on any road whenever we want. 

Please.  

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Totally agree!  Takes their main argument of the table.  Of course they'd find something else!

And I wonder how many of them would bother registering their own or their kids bicycles?  Guessing none!

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I have mixed thoughts. I'm glad a reasonably high profile media person is publicly on-side, but I still think Karl is a bit of a knob. Anyway, I'll take the positive, public support. I happened to also see Mark Beretta also providing public support and explaining good cycling practice to his (ignorant) colleagues on Sunrise. It was a good effort in the face of three idiots.

With all of these arguments I never quite understand how non-cyclists seem to think that cyclists (or at least the majority of them) don't pay car/truck/motorbike/trailer/etc rego and actually have licences. Everyone has the same rules and permission to ride a bike on the road, but if non-cyclists choose not to, then don't begrudge those who choose to. I've also never heard a strategy for getting all the mums and dads to pay for rego and licences for their kiddies riding on the road.

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54 minutes ago, Peter said:

Just allow us to pay rego and then we can ride on any road whenever we want. 

Please.  

I'd prefer to not pay rego, but if that was the rule I would be happy to do so.... especially if it shuts down that part of the argument.

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

Just allow us to pay rego and then we can ride on any road whenever we want. 

Please.  

I'd like to think that would work, but all it does it take one issue off the butt heads agenda.  While ever drivers see a bike on the road there will be reasons to continue the attack.

If its not rego, its "they are a danger to everyone", if its not that its "they don't have to pay insurance".  It will never end while we are allowed to ride on the road.

Sad. but I think true.

Edited by lawman

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I wouldn’t worry about it....Worrying about this debate is just giving you all stress. You will never convince people of certain opinions. Let it go and just ride safely or places where it is genuinely safe.

Having said that I rarely see people abusing cyclist etc in Sydney and I ride on a lot of main roads. But then again, I aren’t a prick like a lot of cyclists I see. In fact.......there are a lot I feel like running over - and that’s just on Bobbin Head Road (North Turramurra). Some of the groups who ride through here are so arrogant it’s frightening.

Luckily for them I am calm cool and collected!

The message here is not lol people on bikes do the right thing.

Edited by IronmanFoz
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1 hour ago, lawman said:

I'd like to think that would work, but all it does it take one issue off the butt heads agenda.  While ever drivers see a bike on the road there will be reasons to continue the attack.

If its not rego, its "they are a danger to everyone", if its not that its "they don't have to pay insurance".  It will never end while we are allowed to ride on the road.

Sad. but I think true.

Whilst you could be right, it would wipe out about 10 arguments in one go. 

We could take up whole lanes. Be that 3 abreast. 

I’d love riding on some roads just blocking cars. 

Car drivers would be begging for it to be removed so fast. 

Then the whole rego would be dead. 

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The debate is one that the press love to recycle every 3 months. There will not be a resolution. For all the sins theat bike riders committ, car drivers do many more all the time:

1.  Speed, nearly everyone in a car speeds

2. run lights

3. don't give way to anyone

4. don't leave the 1 metre.

They have rego insurance etc and their behaviour does not change. So we know it won't change a thing. The law as it stands says we are allowed to ride. The police need to enforce the law and behaviours need to change.

How many bunches really affect cars anyway, riding at 6 am for an hour or so two abreast impacts people how?

Edited by BarryBevan

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3 things I have noticed in this never-ending debate: -

1. People will never always get along?

2. With the inattention and aggression shown by drivers all over the world, it's amazing that more people haven't been killed or seriously injured. I would happily pay some moderate registration and display some form of ID as long as it didn't impinge on my ability to control a bike.

3. Karl is still a tool. 

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It's great that Karl has shown support, however, I think he did it because a few mins earlier, over on Ch 7, Kochy had backed the drivers arguement and was trying to shut down Mark Baretta's points in support of cyclists. 

Time will tell if Karl is the real deal. He may  be legit as well, as his brother and sister in law are right into cycling at present. So he might be seeing the cyclists point of view a bit more these days. 

 

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Karl is a **** tard sexist wanker macho cock head. 

 

This is a poor attempt to get people to watch their show, click on their links etc. 

 

He needs to shut the **** up and learn how to respect women. 

 

Rant over. 

Must be the flu 

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The only solution I can see is to get such a huge number of people cycling on the road so that everyone intimately knows someone that rides.

Some people will never been convinced by an opposing argument, no matter how well structured.

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Mods, can you move this thread to the official Karl Stefanovic thread I started a few years ago please.

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Mods, can we delete the thread so we can get back to B@W and AP arguing etc. 

 

Surely someone needs a new bike? Geez.... LOL 

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Yes, and all the motorists will firmly believe this is just propaganda from cyclists.

None of this is any good!  And nothing is gonna change

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What if you come up behind a slower cyclist? When are you allowed to pass? 

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21 minutes ago, FFF1077 said:

What if you come up behind a slower cyclist? When are you allowed to pass? 

Most will just ride past you when it's safe.

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29 minutes ago, FFF1077 said:

What if you come up behind a slower cyclist? When are you allowed to pass? 

 

7 minutes ago, Peter said:

Most will just ride past you when it's safe.

 

3 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Exactly.  

Come on FB. You don't have to have a go at FFF as well.

Leave that to the experts.

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Honest question to all who ride on the road.  

How many risks do you take when riding?  

- descend like you are the only one of the road.  

- try and beat the lights (i see this a bit and it frustrates me) 

- ride next to parked cars (i allow a door width just in case)

-take pics while riding (see this a bit too).  Plain ****ing stupid if you ask me.  Give it time and your instagram pic could land you in trouble.  

 

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5 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Honest question to all who ride on the road.  

How many risks do you take when riding?  

- descend like you are the only one of the road.  

- try and beat the lights (i see this a bit and it frustrates me) 

- ride next to parked cars (i allow a door width just in case)

-take pics while riding (see this a bit too).  Plain ****ing stupid if you ask me.  Give it time and your instagram pic could land you in trouble.  

 

Is it just me or doors seem to open a lot wider these days? I rode past a car the other day and had given a wide berth but I swear the door just kept going and going...

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9 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Honest question to all who ride on the road.  

How many risks do you take when riding?  

- descend like you are the only one of the road.  

- try and beat the lights (i see this a bit and it frustrates me) 

- ride next to parked cars (i allow a door width just in case)

-take pics while riding (see this a bit too).  Plain ****ing stupid if you ask me.  Give it time and your instagram pic could land you in trouble.  

 

- I descend as fast as humanly possible, but not too fast that I'm unsure of maintaining control

- I'll only try to beat the lights if I know I'll get across before they turn red.  Never run a red

- Never trust a car door (or a blinker)

- Don't pic while mobile, although admittedly I might if I had a GoPro

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23 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

- I descend as fast as humanly possible, but not too fast that I'm unsure of maintaining control

- I'll only try to beat the lights if I know I'll get across before they turn red.  Never run a red

- Never trust a car door (or a blinker)

- Don't pic while mobile, although admittedly I might if I had a GoPro

Same here 

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24 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

- I descend as fast as humanly possible, but not too fast that I'm unsure of maintaining control

- I'll only try to beat the lights if I know I'll get across before they turn red.  Never run a red

- Never trust a car door (or a blinker)

- Don't pic while mobile, although admittedly I might if I had a GoPro

 

Just now, FFF1077 said:

Same here 

Me too. The only point I'll add is that when passing parked cars, I always try to see if there's anybody in them, and when I see a car waiting to turn in front of me, I look at their face and try to make eye contact.

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32 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Honest question to all who ride on the road.  

How many risks do you take when riding?  

- descend like you are the only one of the road.  

- try and beat the lights (i see this a bit and it frustrates me) 

- ride next to parked cars (i allow a door width just in case)

-take pics while riding (see this a bit too).  Plain ****ing stupid if you ask me.  Give it time and your instagram pic could land you in trouble.  

 

I ride hill repeats in the rain. I don't care about the poor visibility and cars not seeing me. It's a mental thing. I think it will never happen to me because the Kona gods will protect me.

If I do get hit, I'll go see a Chinese spiritual healer. That guy will have me back training in no time. Just look what he was able to do for Daniel Son

 

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5 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Me too. The only point I'll add is that when passing parked cars, I always try to see if there's anybody in them, and when I see a car waiting to turn in front of me, I look at their face and try to make eye contact.

Yeah, I don't trust the lack of a head in a car either.  There might be a sheila in it picking up her handbag off the floor

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2 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Honest question to all who ride on the road.  

How many risks do you take when riding?  

- descend like you are the only one of the road.  

- try and beat the lights (i see this a bit and it frustrates me) 

- ride next to parked cars (i allow a door width just in case)

-take pics while riding (see this a bit too).  Plain ****ing stupid if you ask me.  Give it time and your instagram pic could land you in trouble.  

 

Descend as fast as possible within my skill level and appropriate to weather, road condition, traffic, likelihood of wildlife.

Never race the lights. Only go through orange if shielded by a vehicle doing the same.

Hypervigilant with parked cars and give >door width.

Never take pics riding. Not self absorbed enough to take the risk.

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

Yeah, I don't trust the lack of a head in a car either.  There might be a sheila in it picking up her handbag off the floor

It wasn't so much the car dooring, but the car pulling out without indicating that I was referencing here. I always ride as wide as practical around parked cars.

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Me too as with what IronJimbo says.

Also I always give cars a wave to thank them for pausing, or any delay I force upon then etc etc. it hope.fully helps give us a better name etc. We aren’t all a-holes! 

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1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

Me too as with what IronJimbo says.

Also I always give cars a wave to thank them for pausing, or any delay I force upon then etc etc. it hope.fully helps give us a better name etc. We aren’t all a-holes! 

Agree. After having a gun pulled on me in Frankganistan in 1998, I never have a pop at drivers. Respect breeds respect. Eye contact, a wave, an acknowledgement and not being an a-hole should change the situation for the better. 

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Karl doesnt really care, he'll do anything to get a reaction.  In his early street reporting days he was known as Canvas Back Karl. 

Edited by Merv
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9 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Honest question to all who ride on the road.  

How many risks do you take when riding?  

- descend like you are the only one of the road.  

- try and beat the lights (i see this a bit and it frustrates me) 

- ride next to parked cars (i allow a door width just in case)

-take pics while riding (see this a bit too).  Plain ****ing stupid if you ask me.  Give it time and your instagram pic could land you in trouble.  

 

We all take some risk just walking out the door and going for ride. But to address your questions: 

decend! Have you seen where I live? Pancake flat. The only hill around here is the ramp to the underground car park at Kmart!  

Beat the lights. Not a chance. Two reasons. Melbourne drivers and my knees. No chance of me getting out of the saddle to sprint. Lol.

parked cars. Only risk that we all encounter. My thing is to give them a wide birth and watch like a hawk. Been doored once in 30 something years of riding. Few bruises, nothing broken. 

Take pics while riding. Who and how the fark they can do it is beyond me. Dumbest thing I've ever heard or seen. 

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33 minutes ago, Greyman said:

parked cars. Only risk that we all encounter. My thing is to give them a wide birth and watch like a hawk. Been doored once in 30 something years of riding. Few bruises, nothing broken. 

I had to have a discussion with Plod in Sydney back when I rode on the roads. There's a painted cycle path (no physical seperation) that runs flat bang next to a bunch of parked cars. I decided it was unsafe ("impracticable") for me to ride in it and was pulled over by the cops. He told me that he considered it safe and "practicable" for me to be in the bike lane and I disagreed. This went on for a short while until I left. I remember telling him that his opinion didn't really count as he wasn't the one tootling along at 50kmh on a bike (yeah it was downhill).

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13 hours ago, Rimmer said:

Agree. After having a gun pulled on me in Frankganistan in 1998, I never have a pop at drivers. Respect breeds respect. Eye contact, a wave, an acknowledgement and not being an a-hole should change the situation for the better. 

It's more a reflection that the first step in solving any problem is stopping it from getting any worse

Not running red lights and the like might not be a cure, but the less we do that sort of thing, the less reasons motorists will have to hate us

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