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Mental strength counts for 2/10ths of£%#*-all if you toe the start line underdone - unless you’re in a “special” AG, you aren’t getting a Kona ticket

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Mental strength can be acknowledging you're under done and adjusting appropriately to get the best you can out of the day.  It might mean your goal is adjusted back 20min.  Being able to not get carried away and hold it together when it does hurt can be the difference between losing 20min or losing 2 hours.

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And mental strength might also manifest as getting up at 3am to ride Mt Coot-tha in the rain (ie getting the training done, which counts for plenty).

But if you haven’t done the training, relative to your genetics, mental strength on race day isn’t going to turn your day into a podium performance.

Going into an IM underdone, but with some will-strength got me a spot in the med-tent, not the top 10 😉

 

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4 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

I think it depends how long you average that 15 hours a week.  If it's for 2 years then yeah there would be a few.  If its 12 to 16 weeks then prob not.

Jesus! I’m bloody knackered averaging 10hrs a week since March:lol:

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7 minutes ago, trilobite said:

And mental strength might also manifest as getting up at 3am to ride Mt Coot-tha in the rain (ie getting the training done, which counts for plenty).

But if you haven’t done the training, relative to your genetics, mental strength on race day isn’t going to turn your day into a podium performance.

Going into an IM underdone, but with some will-strength got me a spot in the med-tent, not the top 10 😉

 

Loving your contribution to the forum lately. Please keep posting.

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And mental strength might also manifest as getting up at 3am to ride Mt Coot-tha in the rain (ie getting the training done, which counts for plenty).

But if you haven’t done the training, relative to your genetics, mental strength on race day isn’t going to turn your day into a podium performance.

There's no doubt that the work must be done - mental strength is a way of living not something you turn on somewhere during your race - it's the way you are in every part of life

Fifteen hours a week consistently will produce podium positions in any age group as long as nutrition, recovery, body maintenance and discipline (all of these things involve mental strength and commitment to a goal) are done well.

Fifteen hours of quality training can be fitted into a life while still having one weekend day off every week as a family day, most people waste far more than fifteen hours a week doing worthless shit, but they can't see it 🙄

When you talk about "special age groups" there are no easy age groups - you'll find that the people on top of any age group do things that the others are either not prepared to do, or are not able to do - I have been in this game for 32yrs and for the first five years I was not on the podium in any race, but I was watching what the guys on the podium where doing - they were doing things better than me 😪 I thought they were LUCKY it's amazing how much talent and luck you come across when you become committed  

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On 23/05/2018 at 4:00 AM, Cranky said:

Come to Trent Grimsey swim sessions at Centenary at 4:15am. Spend another 30 mins after getting in some more volume, shower and off to work. 

Trent also does a Monday/Wednesday night session at Somerville House starting at 5:30pm if that makes it easier.

His sessions are definitely awesome!

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24 minutes ago, AP said:

There's no doubt that the work must be done - mental strength is a way of living not something you turn on somewhere during your race - it's the way you are in every part of life

Fifteen hours a week consistently will produce podium positions in any age group as long as nutrition, recovery, body maintenance and discipline (all of these things involve mental strength and commitment to a goal) are done well.

Fifteen hours of quality training can be fitted into a life while still having one weekend day off every week as a family day, most people waste far more than fifteen hours a week doing worthless shit, but they can't see it 🙄

When you talk about "special age groups" there are no easy age groups - you'll find that the people on top of any age group do things that the others are either not prepared to do, or are not able to do - I have been in this game for 32yrs and for the first five years I was not on the podium in any race, but I was watching what the guys on the podium where doing - they were doing things better than me 😪 I thought they were LUCKY it's amazing how much talent and luck you come across when you become committed  

Outline such a schedule for us

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29 minutes ago, AP said:

When you talk about "special age groups" there are no easy age groups - you'll find that the people on top of any age group do things that the others are either not prepared to do, or are not able to do - I have been in this game for 32yrs and for the first five years I was not on the podium in any race, but I was watching what the guys on the podium where doing - they were doing things better than me 😪 I thought they were LUCKY it's amazing how much talent and luck you come across when you become committed  

So looking at the results for IM Cairns last year, if I were a 50-54 year old male, podium times were 9:30, 9:43 and 9:44.

By comparison, if I were a 18-24 year old female (ie half the age of the finishers set out above) podium times were 11:46, 12:42 and 13:27.

Are you honestly saying the mature gentlemen would have retained their podium spots doing the same training the young ladies did?

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Are you honestly saying the mature gentlemen would have retained their podium spots doing the same training the young ladies did?

If you're working with mature gentlemen, you're working with athletes with more of a sporting background, a far greater endurance base and the training would be more specific to their needs taking into consideration their stage of development and the fact that they're racing for podium spots

The girls in the 18-24 category mentally far less developed as endurance athletes, and their endurance base is far less developed so their training would be geared towards "getting them through an Ironman"

On the other hand if you made a fairer comparison and compared the top 3 50-54 men's attitudes and their life habits to the men in the same category who are one hour slower and you'll find this is where the real difference is - it's more about attitude and life habits than it is talent or training hours 😢

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I would add that I've noted that many of the older men who I've trained with in the past simply have way more time to train that others. A lot of them may be semi-retired etc etc. Some of my older mates are able to sleep in and go do track sessions mid morning during the weekdays while I have to fit everything around work. 

 

Edited by dazmuzza

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18 minutes ago, AP said:

The girls in the 18-24 category mentally far less developed as endurance athletes, and their endurance base is far less developed so their training would be geared towards "getting them through an Ironman"

So some AGs are “special” in the sense that training to get through the IM can land you a podium spot 😉

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5 hours ago, AP said:

On the other hand if you made a fairer comparison and compared the top 3 50-54 men's attitudes and their life habits to the men in the same category who are one hour slower and you'll find this is where the real difference is - it's more about attitude and life habits than it is talent or training hours 😢

See this is where I have always had a major philosphical disagreement with you AP.

I remember getting into a massive argument back-in-the-day with Jimmy C ( a disciple of yours I believe). He would always bang on about  how anybody under 50yo could break 10hrs if "they wanted it enough". The implication being , if they didn't break 10hrs they either didn't want it enough, or they were "weak" ( physically or mentally, you take your pick).

Of course when I reminded him of the time in 2005 when he went 10:08 at IMNZ he was none too pleased. Called me a "flea", and has now taken his toys and gone to play elsewhere.

What I was trying to get across to him was that not everyone is #blessed with the same genetics . If you work at it , you can get exponentially closer TO YOUR OWN GENETIC POTENTIAL. That may be 10hrs, but it may also be 11,12,13 or heaven forbid, 14hrs.

People that can qualify for Kona anytime they so choose think that anybody can do it. They don't accept that maybe they might have a slight genetic advantage over the "everyman".

I know it's good for business to say, "Trust my teachings, and I'll get you there. Just believe" ( Very christian approach. LOL).

I think what a lot of people ( me in particular) find offensive, is the implication that if you don't podium / Kona qualify / break xhrs, it's because you're mentally weak, or if you change a few "life habits" everything will just miraculously turn you into a gun.

I call BS !

I will be doing my 20th IM next year, having started in 1999. I will be ageing up to the 60-64 AG. I averaged 15hrs per week training since Xmas 2017 , and none of it was "fluff". If I sign up to the Cycos program, do you reckon I'll be able to steal John Hill's Kona spot?

 

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Dave I think we all know AP is full of shit. 

Btw. Great post. 

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15 hours per week is easy enough to write down. The great man (AP) is correct that it is mental, ow that hurts to say. 

5 week day mornings, three bunch rides or trainer/zwift (weather) 5 hours cycling. Two runs easy on the off days, say 10 k each.

Tuesday and Thursday swim squads always hard 3000-3500 each

Lunch runs on the days not running the 10 K, 5 k each.

Weekend

Run longer 15 k

Sunday ride up to 4 hours, extend to 5 for IM prep 6 weeks out, maybe short run of the bike

Friday afternoon, longer swim 4 to 5 k

Saturday optional easy ride

 

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7 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

15 hours per week is easy enough to write down. The great man (AP) is correct that it is mental, ow that hurts to say. 

5 week day mornings, three bunch rides or trainer/zwift (weather) 5 hours cycling. Two runs easy on the off days, say 10 k each.

Tuesday and Thursday swim squads always hard 3000-3500 each

Lunch runs on the days not running the 10 K, 5 k each.

Weekend

Run longer 15 k

Sunday ride up to 4 hours, extend to 5 for IM prep 6 weeks out, maybe short run of the bike

Friday afternoon, longer swim 4 to 5 k

Saturday optional easy ride

 

So every weekday morning, 3 lunchtimes and 3 evenings. And each weekend day. 

And running 6 of 7 days, assuming no run off the bike otherwise its 7/7

No rest day? 

Edited by Turts

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6 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

15 hours per week is easy enough to write down. The great man (AP) is correct that it is mental, ow that hurts to say. 

5 week day mornings, three bunch rides or trainer/zwift (weather) 5 hours cycling. Two runs easy on the off days, say 10 k each.

Tuesday and Thursday swim squads always hard 3000-3500 each

Lunch runs on the days not running the 10 K, 5 k each.

Weekend

Run longer 15 k

Sunday ride up to 4 hours, extend to 5 for IM prep 6 weeks out, maybe short run of the bike

Friday afternoon, longer swim 4 to 5 k

Saturday optional easy ride

 

That's great if you have squad (I don't) and live close to work (I don't) and don't have to work at night (I do). I know you work PublicSector but in Private I don't have the luxury of planning lunch activity. I do get much opportunities, just can't plan them week to week (or even day to day).

I'm not saying it can't be done, as clearly it can. I'm saying it can't be done for everyone. Plus 'family time' and demands don't fit neatly into 'one day', that's not how real life works, especially coupled with a demanding corporate job. (which most of the 'tough guys'  on here would last about 10 seconds in :lol:)

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9 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

15 hours per week is easy enough to write down. The great man (AP) is correct that it is mental, ow that hurts to say. 

5 week day mornings, three bunch rides or trainer/zwift (weather) 5 hours cycling. Two runs easy on the off days, say 10 k each.

Tuesday and Thursday swim squads always hard 3000-3500 each

Lunch runs on the days not running the 10 K, 5 k each.

Weekend

Run longer 15 k

Sunday ride up to 4 hours, extend to 5 for IM prep 6 weeks out, maybe short run of the bike

Friday afternoon, longer swim 4 to 5 k

Saturday optional easy ride

 

writing down 15 hours where 1 weekend day is off, where each workout is scheduled to enable adequate recovery for the next one and thst can be done year round (wasn't that his criteria? )

I'm not a fast runner or swimmer but  your plan had me well over 15 and thats before the optional/upgrades

 

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those bunch rides can be 1 hour trainer or even zwifts, so 5 hours. And really if you are up at 5 or 430 why not do 30 minutes more aerobic exercise, filler gasp.

3 swims = 3 hours

8 hours

weekend ride 3 hours

11 hours

run 4 hours, drop some of the easier runs and don't do the options

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

See this is where I have always had a major philosphical disagreement with you AP.

I remember getting into a massive argument back-in-the-day with Jimmy C ( a disciple of yours I believe). He would always bang on about  how anybody under 50yo could break 10hrs if "they wanted it enough". The implication being , if they didn't break 10hrs they either didn't want it enough, or they were "weak" ( physically or mentally, you take your pick).

Of course when I reminded him of the time in 2005 when he went 10:08 at IMNZ he was none too pleased. Called me a "flea", and has now taken his toys and gone to play elsewhere.

What I was trying to get across to him was that not everyone is #blessed with the same genetics . If you work at it , you can get exponentially closer TO YOUR OWN GENETIC POTENTIAL. That may be 10hrs, but it may also be 11,12,13 or heaven forbid, 14hrs.

People that can qualify for Kona anytime they so choose think that anybody can do it. They don't accept that maybe they might have a slight genetic advantage over the "everyman".

I know it's good for business to say, "Trust my teachings, and I'll get you there. Just believe" ( Very christian approach. LOL).

I think what a lot of people ( me in particular) find offensive, is the implication that if you don't podium / Kona qualify / break xhrs, it's because you're mentally weak, or if you change a few "life habits" everything will just miraculously turn you into a gun.

I call BS !

I will be doing my 20th IM next year, having started in 1999. I will be ageing up to the 60-64 AG. I averaged 15hrs per week training since Xmas 2017 , and none of it was "fluff". If I sign up to the Cycos program, do you reckon I'll be able to steal John Hill's Kona spot?

 

Can we please pin this post. Well said. 

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

See this is where I have always had a major philosphical disagreement with you AP.

I remember getting into a massive argument back-in-the-day with Jimmy C ( a disciple of yours I believe). He would always bang on about  how anybody under 50yo could break 10hrs if "they wanted it enough". The implication being , if they didn't break 10hrs they either didn't want it enough, or they were "weak" ( physically or mentally, you take your pick).

Of course when I reminded him of the time in 2005 when he went 10:08 at IMNZ he was none too pleased. Called me a "flea", and has now taken his toys and gone to play elsewhere.

What I was trying to get across to him was that not everyone is #blessed with the same genetics . If you work at it , you can get exponentially closer TO YOUR OWN GENETIC POTENTIAL. That may be 10hrs, but it may also be 11,12,13 or heaven forbid, 14hrs.

People that can qualify for Kona anytime they so choose think that anybody can do it. They don't accept that maybe they might have a slight genetic advantage over the "everyman".

I know it's good for business to say, "Trust my teachings, and I'll get you there. Just believe" ( Very christian approach. LOL).

I think what a lot of people ( me in particular) find offensive, is the implication that if you don't podium / Kona qualify / break xhrs, it's because you're mentally weak, or if you change a few "life habits" everything will just miraculously turn you into a gun.

I call BS !

I will be doing my 20th IM next year, having started in 1999. I will be ageing up to the 60-64 AG. I averaged 15hrs per week training since Xmas 2017 , and none of it was "fluff". If I sign up to the Cycos program, do you reckon I'll be able to steal John Hill's Kona spot?

 

I think I clarified with AP that it helps if you’re in an AG where (to use his words) “training would be geared towards "getting them through an Ironman"?

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54 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

15 hours per week is easy enough to write down. The great man (AP) is correct that it is mental, ow that hurts to say. 

5 week day mornings, three bunch rides or trainer/zwift (weather) 5 hours cycling. Two runs easy on the off days, say 10 k each.

Tuesday and Thursday swim squads always hard 3000-3500 each

Lunch runs on the days not running the 10 K, 5 k each.

Weekend

Run longer 15 k

Sunday ride up to 4 hours, extend to 5 for IM prep 6 weeks out, maybe short run of the bike

Friday afternoon, longer swim 4 to 5 k

Saturday optional easy ride

 

Train solo. Hate bunch riding. It's me and one other ...max.

Don't have the luxury of lunchtime training. But, do have the advantage of being in control of my staff's roster. 

9-5 / 8 -4 / 2 -10 / 11- 7 / variable with 1:4 weekend work and 72hr on-call.

Swimming is irrelevant ( sorry Ex-) I swim 1:01 to 1:02  regardless of whether I do 1 swim/wk or 4/wk.

Bike: my best times were 2004 - 2005 when I averaged 300km from qualifying races in August right through to race time in April/May.

Run: my best times ( 10:45....30mins off Kona Q ) was when I was doing 60k/wk in August and was periodising my training to maintain that for the next 6mths till IM Race Day.

Here's a screen cap of one of my 30k hill runs in 2008 at aerobic pace.

 

 

Capture.JPG

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