Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
this_guy32

Swim plateau: how to break through

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I took the advice, and swam (again Oompa). 

I tried your set Andrew. I started at the 1:55, and came in around 1:49 each 100m after the first. I was planning on the full 3km, with the last set on 1:30 cycle, but didn't make it. I managed the 5 x 100m on 1:35's holding 1:28s, but could only manage 2 of the final set before gasping at the end and not making the cycle time. I decided to finish off with his "champions set" and managed a 1:17 for the fast 100m. 

Overall not bad, but I should have been able to make the 1:30's given the 1km time I did a week earlier. Maybe next time.

not you, "this guy", has he fallen off the plateau.

 

1'17 is a plateau???? Most people on here would give their left nut to swim that fast.   It's funny you know, when I was breaking 1'10 for 100 which isnt even 12 year old girl stuff, I was swimming slower at IM then when I went to paddles, buoy and band.  

 

 

 

Edited by Oompa Loompa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Oompa Loompa said:

1'17 is a plateau???? Most people on here would give their left nut to swim that fast.   It's funny you know, when I was breaking 1'10 for 100 which isnt even 12 year old girl stuff, I was swimming slower at IM then when I went to paddles, buoy and band.  

 

Likewise I could probably swim 3.8km faster now than a year ago when I was doing 1:13 for 100m but I'm not really doing much pool stuff ATM. My fastest 100m coincides with my fastest IM times though. Admittedly I was a young pup then, and these "best times' now are what I was doing on my 30th rep then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I took the advice, and swam (again Oompa). 

I tried your set Andrew. I started at the 1:55, and came in around 1:49 each 100m after the first. I was planning on the full 3km, with the last set on 1:30 cycle, but didn't make it. I managed the 5 x 100m on 1:35's holding 1:28s, but could only manage 2 of the final set before gasping at the end and not making the cycle time. I decided to finish off with his "champions set" and managed a 1:17 for the fast 100m. 

Overall not bad, but I should have been able to make the 1:30's given the 1km time I did a week earlier. Maybe next time.

Awesome effort!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/05/2018 at 7:49 PM, Andrew #1 said:

i have another session for you - 5 x 100M on 3 minutes, with no 100 faster than 2.30 pace. Seriously - you will deal unco and stupid initially, but there is no better way to learn how to maintain form and balance through the water.

Tried a couple of these at the end of my set today. Did one in 1:58 and the other in 2:05. Felt sooooo easy. I know it wasn't slow enough but I didn't feel unbalanced or unco. Feet sunk a little but not too much.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BogFrog said:

Tried a couple of these at the end of my set today. Did one in 1:58 and the other in 2:05. Felt sooooo easy. I know it wasn't slow enough but I didn't feel unbalanced or unco. Feet sunk a little but not too much.

1:58 is my race pace.

You can go off people ya know:lol:

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, as an update, I haven't been able to add any extra sessions a week yet, but have tried (a couple of times) Andrew's 100s reducing the time every 5x and with the championship set thrown in. Killer! 

Problem is I've just burned my calf on a neighbouring motorbike exhaust as I was parking mine, so am staying out of pools until healed...

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, this_guy32 said:

Well, as an update, I haven't been able to add any extra sessions a week yet, but have tried (a couple of times) Andrew's 100s reducing the time every 5x and with the championship set thrown in. Killer! 

Problem is I've just burned my calf on a neighbouring motorbike exhaust as I was parking mine, so am staying out of pools until healed...

Ouch! But - Swim bands!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah this video didn’t exactly help last night. ‘ Barely surviving’  at 2min/100 is obviously a relative term :lol:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/05/2018 at 3:50 PM, RunBrettRun said:

If you're going to swim 3x a week make it 4k min.  Lots of shorter intervals.  40x50m 20x100 etc.

Build to 4x4k.  Your time will come down then.

IMO there isn't much more to add than this. 7k per week will only maintain, to improve, you need to jump up over 10 at least.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This seems to be the swimming thread (I don't want to start another) but I have a question / looking for advice. I've been really feeling my quads when swimming over the last while. It used to be infrequent, but now it just seems to be getting worse. Nearly always feel it at the start during the warm up, then it fades. Today I did a set of 10x100s fast and the quads complained. Tried to concentrate to relax the legs on the second 50 which might have worked a little, but hmmmm.  Finished the set with pull and paddles so as not to overcook the quads as I have a hard run set tomorrow. 

Oh, and I always have a shit parkrun after a decent swim set the night before - the quads scream halfway through.

What am I doing wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you feel like you're kicking hard?

I have a 6 beat kick, but have never felt it in the quads. Even on really long swims. I do a little when doing backstroke kick, but never freestyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a six beat kick too, but I don't feel as though I'm kicking hard, but I must be ??

Feels as though I'm just kicking to keep balanced and keep the feet up. Obviously not

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, BogFrog said:

This seems to be the swimming thread (I don't want to start another) but I have a question / looking for advice. I've been really feeling my quads when swimming over the last while. It used to be infrequent, but now it just seems to be getting worse. Nearly always feel it at the start during the warm up, then it fades. Today I did a set of 10x100s fast and the quads complained. Tried to concentrate to relax the legs on the second 50 which might have worked a little, but hmmmm.  Finished the set with pull and paddles so as not to overcook the quads as I have a hard run set tomorrow. 

Oh, and I always have a shit parkrun after a decent swim set the night before - the quads scream halfway through.

What am I doing wrong?

Never felt my quads even after a heavy kick session. Sure it's not running/cycling? Try slow your swimming right down, use a 2 beat kick and that should only really balance out your swimming, rather than giving propulsion. What would you normally do 100m kick in (with a board)? Are you flexing knees too much? Make sure toes are pointed and clench your buttcheeks like they are trying to hold an acorn.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, zed said:

Never felt my quads even after a heavy kick session. Sure it's not running/cycling? Try slow your swimming right down, use a 2 beat kick and that should only really balance out your swimming, rather than giving propulsion. What would you normally do 100m kick in (with a board)? Are you flexing knees too much? Make sure toes are pointed and clench your buttcheeks like they are trying to hold an acorn.

Yeh, my guess is maybe kicking from the knees rather than the hips. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the suggestions guys...

5 hours ago, zed said:

Never felt my quads even after a heavy kick session. Sure it's not running/cycling? Try slow your swimming right down, use a 2 beat kick and that should only really balance out your swimming, rather than giving propulsion. What would you normally do 100m kick in (with a board)? Are you flexing knees too much? Make sure toes are pointed and clench your buttcheeks like they are trying to hold an acorn.

Well, I think it's affecting my running, so I need to fix it.  Yesterday had an easy run in the morning and the afternoon swim killed the quads.  100m kick?  With a board?  Huh?   Haven't done kick in years...  I figure swimming is about arms, not legs...  :whistling:


Just went for an easy swim (had a monster run this morning) and the quads felt fine the whole way.  I've never done the 2 beat kick, so tried to teach myself today.  Felt a little un-co, but getting there - had to concentrate to stop the flutter after the kick though...

5 hours ago, AA7 said:

Yeh, my guess is maybe kicking from the knees rather than the hips. 

I read this and thought, nah, can't be.  I'm a decent swimmer... but there might be something in it. I did a little "normal" swimming and concentrated on kicking from the hip and really keeping the knees straight / locked and it did feel a little different.   Might be a reason for me to start doing some kick drills with a board :whistling: Does everyone else do kick drills?  And is this the reason why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, BogFrog said:

Thanks for the suggestions guys...

Well, I think it's affecting my running, so I need to fix it.  Yesterday had an easy run in the morning and the afternoon swim killed the quads.  100m kick?  With a board?  Huh?   Haven't done kick in years...  I figure swimming is about arms, not legs...  :whistling:


Just went for an easy swim (had a monster run this morning) and the quads felt fine the whole way.  I've never done the 2 beat kick, so tried to teach myself today.  Felt a little un-co, but getting there - had to concentrate to stop the flutter after the kick though...

I read this and thought, nah, can't be.  I'm a decent swimmer... but there might be something in it. I did a little "normal" swimming and concentrated on kicking from the hip and really keeping the knees straight / locked and it did feel a little different.   Might be a reason for me to start doing some kick drills with a board :whistling: Does everyone else do kick drills?  And is this the reason why?

2 beat kick is hard at first, try swimming slowly and get it nailed firstly. I switch between 2 and 6 beat depending on how fast I'm going.

Plenty of good swimmers have weak kicks. You don't need a kick ass kick, but if you're not kicking correctly you could be affecting your body position and streamlining,

Do 100m flatout kicking. You can get an OK swimmer who can swim sub 1.30, but will only manage 3min for a 100m kick. They should be able to do it in 2 min. If you aren't close to 2min then it's probably something that needs working? Not heaps of work, but 500m every swim session?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, zed said:

Do 100m flatout kicking. You can get an OK swimmer who can swim sub 1.30, but will only manage 3min for a 100m kick. They should be able to do it in 2 min. If you aren't close to 2min then it's probably something that needs working? Not heaps of work, but 500m every swim session?

2mins??!?!?  500m?!?!?!?  aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Body position is fine - that at least I know is good.  I would be nearer the 3 min mark I reckon, and the kicking would kill my legs (I think???)  When we did kick in squad when I was a kid, I was shithouse at it, but take away my legs and the pace drops, even with a pull buoy...  I'll give it a go...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to improve your body position and your kick try doing it without a board and arms out front and do it as 12m kick - 12m free and continue to repeat for any distance you might want to do

You'll find 12m is not so mind numbing and you're still working the right technique - also without the board and arms out front puts you into a more "balanced position" in the water 😎 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, AP said:

You'll find 12m is not so mind numbing and you're still working the right technique - also without the board and arms out front puts you into a more "balanced position" in the water 

You can also try it on your side without a board. 12m one side, then 12 the other.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Ex-Hasbeen said:

You can also try it on your side without a board. 12m one side, then 12 the other.

 

Yeah again it gives a feeling of being balanced in the water and floating rather than fighting to stay on the surface - a lot of "non-swimmers" actually fight to stay on the surface and are just not relaxed enough - I think a lot could gain by spending some of each workout learning to float along with minimal effort rather than making every workout a battle to get faster - most poor swimmers just don't swim often enough - frequency is pretty important to developing that comfort in the water

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13/05/2018 at 12:10 PM, The Customer said:

My only swim goal in races these days is 'don't kick'. Test it out in a race - I'm certainly no slower by not kicking but my bike and run is stronger than it's ever been.

Kicking only leads to high heart rate, high blood lactate and unnecessarily fatigued legs. You'll pay the price by the time you get running.

If you're an adult, age grouper and not a natural kicker - don't bother, it'll never happen.

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×