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Peter

IAAF Rules to Limit Testosterone Levels for Female Runners

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12 hours ago, AA7 said:

You're a cop, do tell.....

I've got no idea

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But when society doesn't keep scores or records any more and everyone gets participation medals, does it matter what sex they are, or whether we even have categories based on sex at all?

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On 27/04/2018 at 11:15 AM, prizna said:

 

What a load of shit.

Serena v Sharapova..... Serena v anyone but Venus

You gonna say Serena shouldn't be there?

Relative size doesn’t seem to have been a problem for Roger Federer???

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ppl pushing for "let 'me run in whatever race they want" seem to focus on the "current testosterone level" issue but really if someone has had the "advantage of a male hormonal balance for 30 years then on top of the geometrical differences derived from the (sex-linked) genetics (eg in general hip angle more conducive to running etc) they have also had the muscular/skeletal developmental environment (if you are stronger and faster your connective tissues and bones tend to acclimate as well). These things don't just go away in a couple of weeks after a form gets signed saying gender change performed (some of these athletes were full on male for 30 odd years...).

Perhaps a more legitimate response would be the creation of category X for M - > F transitioned people. 

Life may not allways seem fair (I suck at ball sports because I'm dyslexic for instance (and that was a real prob in a private school culture in the '70's), and now I cant read the pace clock at the pool cz my eyesight is not what it used to be etc etc - I'm good far another 16 pages on wy life sucks sometimes).

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I read an article about this and it stated that  women have a testosterone level of 0.5 to 1.9. males range from 10 to 58. Some DSD ppl can have levels higher than the 58, so higher than men. The rules will require females to be under 5.0 so this still allows them to be from over 2x higher than the highest women and up to 10x higher than some women. I believe other than creating a new category for transgender and DSD athletes this is the only other option. All elite athletes should be having regular blood screening by their national ADA, and WADA once at an international level anyway, so it isn't really anymore of an imposition unless the levels aren't within the allowed levels.

 

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I think the level was 10 before CAS overturned the rule. I can't seem to find any reference to it anywhere though. If that is correct, it will virtually wipe out Semenya's reign, as she was significantly slower when racing with that level, and would likely be even slower at the further reduced level. 

Her other option though is to move up to 5,000m, or down to 200m, as the new rule will only apply to 400m - 1600m.

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I think the level was 10 before CAS overturned the rule. I can't seem to find any reference to it anywhere though. If that is correct, it will virtually wipe out Semenya's reign, as she was significantly slower when racing with that level, and would likely be even slower at the further reduced level. 

Her other option though is to move up to 5,000m, or down to 200m, as the new rule will only apply to 400m - 1600m.

Yes it was 10, equal to many men, and so far beyond any female. This rule isn't just about Semenya but also about protecting female athletes and generations of young males from the possibility of genital mutilation to win races. Don't bother trying to say that is unlikely to happen, I imagine already has. Think about some of the awful things that have happened to young athletes in the past, this would be just another.

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13 hours ago, BarryBevan said:

Maria Mutloa ran around as fast as Caster

That's like fishing with a drift net...

Wonder what it is with women's 800m???

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13 hours ago, Ruley said:

That's like fishing with a drift net...

Wonder what it is with women's 800m???

I used to like Gail Devers, flo Jo and Ottey. Mutloa could run

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17 hours ago, beaten said:

I read an article about this and it stated that  women have a testosterone level of 0.5 to 1.9. males range from 10 to 58. Some DSD ppl can have levels higher than the 58, so higher than men. The rules will require females to be under 5.0 so this still allows them to be from over 2x higher than the highest women and up to 10x higher than some women. I believe other than creating a new category for transgender and DSD athletes this is the only other option. All elite athletes should be having regular blood screening by their national ADA, and WADA once at an international level anyway, so it isn't really anymore of an imposition unless the levels aren't within the allowed levels.

 

I founds this:

  • Women normal - Pre-menopausal = 10-70 ng/dL (0.35-2.43 nmol/L) - so the IAAF limit of 5nmol/L seems quite generous?
  • Men normal - 
  • 20 to 39 years = 270-1,080 ng/dL (9.00-37.48 nmol/L)
  • 40 to 59 years = 350-890 ng/dL (12.15-30.88 nmol/ L)
  • 60 years and older = 350-720 ng/dL (12.15-24.98 nmol/L)

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Well there you go, when the level was previously lowered to 10 it was still purely in the male level domain, no where near a female level. Particularly as the larger number of high performing males are in the first age bracket. 5 is still a very generous number and it should be enforced across all sports, (I don't class the pure skill sports of shooting etc here)not just those few middle distance events that were tested. Looking at comparisons between all world records the female times are no where near the men's and to help protect the integrity of women's sport, and protect athletes into the future this rule should be applied further.

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On 27/04/2018 at 3:56 PM, BogFrog said:

I got a parkrun email today about a transgender runner.  According to her, she has lost a lot of muscle mass, strength and speed since starting on the meds that suppresses testosterone.  So maybe this testosterone limit is a good thing for a more level playing field.  Seems the fairest I've heard thus far...

Yes, can't recall, might have been Background Briefing on ABC radio covered the issue of transgender athletes once the transformation is complete they do not appear to have been given any advantage by having trained previously while being a male.

Castor Semenya's case is not a transgender issue in any case, her's is a case of androgeny, so let's at least keep them separate. Any testosterone at least is naturally produced by her body. Regardless her times are not close to the men's. I really think she needs to get rid of the semen in her name, surely it's not helping.

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Interesting thread on the logic behind the new rules starting here:

 

 

 

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