Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Peter

IAAF Rules to Limit Testosterone Levels for Female Runners

Recommended Posts

They may as well have called it Casters law, it doesn't really affect anyone else as far as I'm aware.

Maybe she can now claim it as a disability and dominate the Paralympics. 

Not sure how they should handle this situation but there needs to be some sort of summit on this sort of thing with the advent of trans athletes also coming into womens competitions. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah the difference in build and stature between Caster and her competitors was stark. She shouldn't be racing against women, she has an unfair advantage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, zed said:

Yeah the difference in build and stature between Caster and her competitors was stark. She shouldn't be racing against women, she has an unfair advantage. 

So who does she race against?  The men? 

There is a 13 second different time between men and women over 800 mtrs.

She has female bits, so for me, she races the females.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a complex issue.

While athletics (and other sport) is neatly delineated into male and female, the biology of sex determination isn't nearly as clearly defined.

There was a lively and interesting thread on Cool Running quite a few years back, early on in Caster's international career. A non-runner joined the discussion, who IIRC was an intersex individual, which made for some well-informed and thought-provoking insights.

World record holders are always going to be genetic outliers whose genes enable them extraordinarily well adapted for a particular event. When those genes express in ways that blur society's convenient descriptors of what it means to be male and female, it does become controversial and, to some, unsettling.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

52 minutes ago, zed said:

Yeah the difference in build and stature between Caster and her competitors was stark. She shouldn't be racing against women, she has an unfair advantage. 

What a load of shit.

Serena v Sharapova..... Serena v anyone but Venus

You gonna say Serena shouldn't be there?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, roxii said:

They may as well have called it Casters law, it doesn't really affect anyone else as far as I'm aware.

 

It would have wiped out the whole podium in the women's 800m at the last Olympics.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, zed said:

Yeah the difference in build and stature between Caster and her competitors was stark. She shouldn't be racing against women, she has an unfair advantage. 

Very complex issue.


Do you think Kenyans shouldn't run Marathon because they have a genetic advantage?

Usain Bolt had a longer stride than any of his competitors during his reign, should he have been ruled out?

Chris Froome has asthma so he can take medicine.... wait.....

 

 

I dont have an answer, but just watched a doco on netflix that covered the issue, and it is far far more complex than I ever gave it credit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the doco?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, The new guy said:

Very complex issue.


Do you think Kenyans shouldn't run Marathon because they have a genetic advantage?

Usain Bolt had a longer stride than any of his competitors during his reign, should he have been ruled out?

Chris Froome has asthma so he can take medicine.... wait.....

 

 

I dont have an answer, but just watched a doco on netflix that covered the issue, and it is far far more complex than I ever gave it credit.

On the face of it though and very superficially these athletes all look like their competition.

If you were unaware of Caster and had to place her in a race would you place her in the males or females race? 

imgb19d3a1457060e770b2dfb39c28e2b0f44dc8e0a.jpg

 

part of this I believe is because as a society we are more accepting of difference, in previous generations these people would have probably stayed as far away from the spotlight as possible. Now we are becoming more accepting we also have to find better ways of dealing with these issues. Its a tough one.  Do you draw a line, and if so where??  Do different sports require different rules? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Peter said:

So who does she race against?  The men? 

There is a 13 second different time between men and women over 800 mtrs.

She has female bits, so for me, she races the females.

 

The presence of a vagina is immaterial.She has no womb, she can't have children, she's tall, muscular, with a deep voice and more importantly her testosterone level is 3 x higher than most female athletes. It's shit for athletics. Sucks for her, but she should be racing men. I don't even think she's running at full pace when she's racing. She looks like she's out for a training run and she's probably smart enough to know not to win by too big a margin. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't born with a vagina, but my Mum dressed me as a girl till the age of 13, so this story really resonates with me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Transgender and the semenya/2nd/3rd in women's 800m@rio are different.

The semenya situation is a difficult one having external female genetalia and an internal set of testicals given its a natural though unusual occurrence.

 

The transgender one is just bullshit, seems more over the top PC and inclusion to appease this vs what appears to be an unfair advantage. Then again maybe having moved away from Melbourne and now being mid 30's, white, male and a wueenslander I'm just out of touch...

 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ruley said:

Transgender and the semenya/2nd/3rd in women's 800m@rio are different.

The semenya situation is a difficult one having external female genetalia and an internal set of testicals given its a natural though unusual occurrence.

 

The transgender one is just bullshit, seems more over the top PC and inclusion to appease this vs what appears to be an unfair advantage. Then again maybe having moved away from Melbourne and now being mid 30's, white, male and a wueenslander I'm just out of touch...

 

Can you play the banjo yet? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This from an article I read I the Guardian today:

However Bermon insists the issue was more prevalent than is realised. “We have a lot of athletes with this kind of condition. It is not just the one or two people you hear about in the media. In elite female athletics the number of intersex athletes is 140 times more than what you might find in the normal female population.”

Nevertheless it remains a difficult and sensitive issue, and Semenya has born the brunt of it since she burst on to the world stage as a shy 18-year-old by winning the 800m at the 2009 world championships. That led to gender tests that were never made public but were alleged, according to Australia’s Daily Telegraph, to show she had no womb or ovaries but had internal testes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a parkrun email today about a transgender runner.  According to her, she has lost a lot of muscle mass, strength and speed since starting on the meds that suppresses testosterone.  So maybe this testosterone limit is a good thing for a more level playing field.  Seems the fairest I've heard thus far...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, BogFrog said:

I got a parkrun email today about a transgender runner.  According to her, she has lost a lot of muscle mass, strength and speed since starting on the meds that suppresses testosterone.  So maybe this testosterone limit is a good thing for a more level playing field.  Seems the fairest I've heard thus far...

Its one of the reasons I’ve never gone sub 10. Not enough testosterone.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Peter said:

Its one of the reasons I’ve never gone sub 10. Not enough testosterone.  

In endurance sports men with low testosterone can do very well. In fact, high testosterone could be a disadvantage due to larger mascle mass and the tendency to do too much high intensity work in training while dodging the long slow aerobic miles that high testosterone guys need to be good at endurance.

Very timely thread we just had a workshop in LGBT(XYZetc.) issues at work. The guy who conducted the workshop was born a woman and was going through gender transition to become a man. Was on hormone therapy and was a sprouting a little beard but hadn't had surgery yet. We spoke about the difficulty trans gender people have with sport. He's love to play football in a men's team but knows it would be physically dangerous for him as he will never be as strong as a man. Plus, he said taking his shirt off in the changing rooms would cause  him too much stress as he clearly looks very different from a naturally born man.

Edited by The Customer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, BogFrog said:

I got a parkrun email today about a transgender runner.  According to her, she has lost a lot of muscle mass, strength and speed since starting on the meds that suppresses testosterone.  So maybe this testosterone limit is a good thing for a more level playing field.  Seems the fairest I've heard thus far...

She works at my work. Much controversy over which bathroom she should be using in the bike room.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which gender does a transgender police officer do a strip search on? Serious question

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, mhvh said:

Which gender does a transgender police officer do a strip search on? Serious question

You're a cop, do tell.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, goughy said:

What is the doco?

Sports on fire. It's a series that covers big topics in the history of sport - doping, Munich, gender testing etc.

I wouldn't say it was super high quality, but that episode was enlightening. 

For instance, there was an athlete banned on the 'high testosterone' platform, but it was found that while she produced high levels, part of her genetic makeup meant that no testosterone produced was actually able to be absorbed, therefore was actually at a performance disadvantage. But the test model had her banned.

It also touched on the mental aspect of someone who had always thought themselves as a female suddenly being informed they are too male. And also the mental side of the physical 'image' of looking more masculine than other women. Remember, not every female athlete goes though these tests, it uses the whistleblower technique to highlight suspicion, then history has produced some very invasive testing to try and find a reason for that appearance.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IM Talk had a heated discussion topic on their Facebook page on transgender athletes in Triathlon. A transgender athlete posted in it. It is worth reading to get both points of view.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×