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BogFrog

Swimming stroke question / discussion

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9 hours ago, BogFrog said:

I didnt explain myself well. I am talking about under the water. Hand goes in, stretch forward, but keep elbow slightly bent is what I've been hearing for years. The writes seem to completely straighten their arms...

All my recent coaching has been around keeping elbow high after the catch. 

Most people say high elbow and think in the air. But it's under the water. As opposed to sweeping ur forearm under ur body

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Gonna try that elbow twisting thing next time. I'm pretty sure I'm straight(er) down with my arm rather than 'hinging' it.  My brain thinks 'hinge' but I'm sure my arm is doing something else.

I'm reminded of AP's clinic with PJ at Nth Sydney. Basically said it's hard to swim 'too wide' with your arms as most folks' default is too narrow.

Anyway, haven't drowned yet = winning :kicking:

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4 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Gonna try that elbow twisting thing next time. I'm pretty sure I'm straight(er) down with my arm rather than 'hinging' it.  My brain thinks 'hinge' but I'm sure my arm is doing something else.

I'm reminded of AP's clinic with PJ at Nth Sydney. Basically said it's hard to swim 'too wide' with your arms as most folks' default is too narrow.

Anyway, haven't drowned yet = winning :kicking:

Yea agree with AP on that.. most people feel they're extending straight out from shoulder but are actually crossing to the other side.. very hard to get a high elbow strong pull whenyour arm is under the opposite shoulder...

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11 hours ago, prizna said:

What you do above the water doesn't matter. 

What you do under the water matters.

Yeah. 

As long as you keep it simple. 

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54 minutes ago, pieman said:

Yea agree with AP on that.. most people feel they're extending straight out from shoulder but are actually crossing to the other side.. very hard to get a high elbow strong pull whenyour arm is under the opposite shoulder...

Agreed. I get really bad shoulder impingement if I don't consciously think about making sure my right arm enters the water wide, and stays there. I took a video once of swimming with what felt like a very wide entry.

Guess what: It was closer to centre than my shoulder. Most people cross over unless they really concentrate not to, or they've grown up swimming.

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I think this is where time poor triathletes suffer a bit. (Myself included) 

they go to the pool, bash out the required distance usually with a few efforts but don’t have the time to do quality coached squad sessions.They make you do tonnes of silly drills (fists, catchup, long stroke drills, high elbows etc) which when explained well help you piece together a decent stroke and know what a decent stroke feels like.

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1 minute ago, roxii said:

I think this is where time poor triathletes suffer a bit. (Myself included) 

they go to the pool, bash out the required distance usually with a few efforts but don’t have the time to do quality coached squad sessions.They make you do tonnes of silly drills (fists, catchup, long stroke drills, high elbows etc) which when explained well help you piece together a decent stroke and know what a decent stroke feels like.

I've found the water polo swim drill helped me focus on staying wider when swimming normally. And I hate drills

Also good for training for sightng in bumpy conditions if ur used to transitioning comfortably

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8 minutes ago, roxii said:

I think this is where time poor triathletes suffer a bit. (Myself included) 

they go to the pool, bash out the required distance usually with a few efforts but don’t have the time to do quality coached squad sessions.They make you do tonnes of silly drills (fists, catchup, long stroke drills, high elbows etc) which when explained well help you piece together a decent stroke and know what a decent stroke feels like.

Pretty much me.  I swim in a private gym that has no squad. There are two other pools in town, one public and another at a school.  There aren't really 'squads' as far as i can tell. Lots of improver type lessons mostly centered around school term times and good for parents that are home during the day .but you have to commit to a term.

I don't think there are any 'pay and show up' squads. The rest is youth racing teams.

There are some seriously fast swimmers at my pool though and I've found everyone is very generous with their time and tips if you ask. I'm there regularly enough to know the faces now :)

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buy a pool buoy and paddles, just get strong.... triathlon is just pulling yourself over the water in a wetsuit. 

start with small ones, get bigger ones, near the race drop down to smaller ones.

swim 4 times a week. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Oompa Loompa said:

buy a pool buoy and paddles, just get strong.... triathlon is just pulling yourself over the water in a wetsuit. 

start with small ones, get bigger ones, near the race drop down to smaller ones.

swim 4 times a week. 

Completely disagree. Fristly not all races are wetsuit legal, secondly using paddles with bad technique (e.g. arms that cross over) will add more load and cause more injuries.

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22 hours ago, goughy said:

Image result for swimming stroke

 

21 hours ago, BogFrog said:

So to keep elbow higher that wrist, arm needs to be slightly bent? And if you look at the photo goughy posted, the elbow us lower...

So it appears no one else has been told to keep elbow bent. I've heard it from 3 sources. Think I'll ignore the advice!

The guy in the photo looks like he has just left the end of the pool and is still be rising back to the surface, so may not be the best example...

Not that I know anything at all about swimming.  I'm a poor swimmer, but it's something I'd like to learn to do better.

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I've never been coached, and am not overly keen on joining a swim squad, but is there any value in doing a one or two day swim camp where they teach you a few things and give you some drill to improve your stroke and help you get better?

If so, does anyone want to recommend one that is worth doing for an old worn out triathlete?

(I know coach@ on here did one a couple a couple of years ago.  It sounded great, but I was busy that weekend).

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12 minutes ago, Go Easy said:

I've never been coached, and am not overly keen on joining a swim squad, but is there any value in doing a one or two day swim camp where they teach you a few things and give you some drill to improve your stroke and help you get better?

If so, does anyone want to recommend one that is worth doing for an old worn out triathlete?

(I know coach@ on here did one a couple a couple of years ago.  It sounded great, but I was busy that weekend).

Effortless swimming do 3 hr workshops aroun the country occasionally. I am planning inn doing one in Brisbane before next season 

 

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I took little away from the Effortless Swim sessions. Too little direct contact and one on one time. I would put the money into 3-4 individual coaching sessions. 

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8 minutes ago, Bosco said:

I would put the money into 3-4 individual coaching sessions. 

That would be my preference too. Get recommendations on a good coach (for stroke work, not just someone who sets laps) and talk to them. They would often be able to stay back after their squad to take you through something. They may even do it gratis.

When I first started swimming again after nearly 20 years out of the pool, I was swimming on my own at Albany Creek. The squad there was coached by John Rodgers, a multiple Olympic coach. After squad, he'd often come over and give me and a couple of the other guys in the public lanes a few tips on how to improve our stroke. These guys just love swimming, and like to see people doing it properly.

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37 minutes ago, Bosco said:

I would put the money into 3-4 individual coaching sessions. 

Ditto - a good coach will send you away with something to work on and drills to fix any issues. Then you go back after a few weeks and get a correction / progression on what you've been doing

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

 

When I first started swimming again after nearly 20 years out of the pool, I was swimming on my own at Albany Creek. The squad there was coached by John Rodgers, a multiple Olympic coach. After squad, he'd often come over and give me and a couple of the other guys in the public lanes a few tips on how to improve our stroke. These guys just love swimming, and like to see people doing it properly.

It was a similar thing with me.  A little old lady used to open a school pool a couple of times a week for just anyone to come and have a swim.  She's the one who pointed out to me that I was actually pushing the water with my left hand when extending it, she used to be a coach years before.  Literally just walked over and tapped me on the head.

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4 hours ago, Go Easy said:

(I know coach@ on here did one a couple a couple of years ago.  It sounded great, but I was busy that weekend).

I notice that Coach@ has started back at Engadine pool coaching Masters. 5.30am

FM

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44 minutes ago, Flanman said:

I notice that Coach@ has started back at Engadine pool coaching Masters. 5.30am

FM

itd be nice if he started back on here

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14 hours ago, BogFrog said:

Completely disagree. Fristly not all races are wetsuit legal, secondly using paddles with bad technique (e.g. arms that cross over) will add more load and cause more injuries.

Thats your right, I did assume we were talking about a person whose arms stay on the same side of their body as their shoulders.  Yes, if they are that bad, they should get some stroke correction if it matters enough to them.

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6 hours ago, Flanman said:

I notice that Coach@ has started back at Engadine pool coaching Masters. 5.30am

FM

He gets you fit, if we are talking about people with cross over arm issues, you really want his wife justine. 

If you want long distance stuff, southie is coaching at sutho pool once or twice a week, he is the best I've ever seen at communicating knowledge to average joes and joeannes.

All are good though, Id just go to whoever is closest at the available time.

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12 hours ago, Bosco said:

I took little away from the Effortless Swim sessions. Too little direct contact and one on one time. I would put the money into 3-4 individual coaching sessions. 

Would love to but as far as I can see, that opportunity doesn't exist locally for me :(

There are camps, mostly in Mallorca or Lanza,  I suppose it could be worse! :D

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2 hours ago, Oompa Loompa said:

If you want long distance stuff, southie is coaching at sutho pool once or twice a week, he is the best I've ever seen at communicating knowledge to average joes and joeannes.

Southie???  I'm assuming a Southwell?

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7 hours ago, pieman said:

plenty of good tips in here

 

How good is the information in TriGold! Some of the best Ironman information on the net in there.  Also I think Zed posted some links to  Slowtwitch threads on running recently. I found these swim tips in those links - I certainly took a lot from it. 

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=4020943;search_string=barryp;#4020943

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