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RunBrettRun

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Alright, for the next 5 weeks I'm no longer a triathlete...

 

Boston marathon is on Monday 16th April....

 

I've never had a crack at a marathon before, talk to me about how you handled a marathon vs tris and what struggles were the hardest on raceday.   

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I started to write a serious reply to this and then I remembered you are you... you paced a marathon last year?

Do you mean this is the first time you've had a crack to try and be as fast as you can?

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Watch Patriots Day with Mark Wahlberg. That should make you run faster.

I watched it the day before Ironman Texas & had a PB Marathon. I really enjoyed the movie. Sure it had a bit of Hollywood beat up, but its still a good movie. 

My friend lived in Boston for a few years & he was saying the locals love the race & the support on the course is next level. 

I'm very jealous and would love to do this race. 

#bostonstrong

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Yeah this is a serious question and yeah its the first time I'm having a proper crack at a stand alone marathon under my own steam.

 

I expect its a completely different beast to ironman and triathlon running in general so just interested to hear other peoples thoughts on it.

 

Bored yes I've seen the movie, I remember them saying there are two things to do on patriots day, watch the marathon or go to the baseball, we have tickets to the baseball already so ticking both boxes.

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I have taken most my running tips off this site from you........

It hurts and hurts a lot more than “expected”. Getting used to Marathon pace and effort involved took me a little while to adjust. I found a few longer tempo sessions than in Ironman mode was useful - even if just getting the mind and body to relax at that pace. 

Mentally adjusting to an increase in running kilometres but potentially lower overall work or hours in a week - I made a few mistakes as tried to keep bike and swim volume similar. 

Lose a couple of extra kilo’s - there is no bike before hand!

I have also found all my stand alone marathons to be harder to recover from than an Ironman. This was my biggest surprise and learning....

Good luck - very jealous 

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

Yeah this is a serious question and yeah its the first time I'm having a proper crack at a stand alone marathon under my own steam.

 

I expect its a completely different beast to ironman and triathlon running in general so just interested to hear other peoples thoughts on it.

 

Bored yes I've seen the movie, I remember them saying there are two things to do on patriots day, watch the marathon or go to the baseball, we have tickets to the baseball already so ticking both boxes.

Mate, it's circa 2x your best 70.3 run day at same effort.

Close proxy.

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Thanks for the responses and Matt I figured that was going to be pretty close to the mark for the time.

 

I guess I am a little scared and excited by this event.  While I have my training sorted and my goal firmly set I am interested in how people have found the race itself.  I know it will be hard and it should be hard cause it's a race.  But Im sure the struggles will be very different from any triathlon I've ever done.

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Take the patient approach...and go for the even or negative split, with a ramp in perceived effort through that final 12K or so as you hold pace, rather than fall apart and pay big-time for being overly-exuberant early on.

Economise your performance to run your best marathon IMO.

 

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1 minute ago, MJK said:

Take the patient approach...and go for the even or negative split, with a ramp in perceived effort through that final 12K or so as you hold pace, rather than fall apart and pay big-time for being overly-exuberant early on.

Economise your performance to run your best marathon IMO.

 

I do most of my runs this way and think that will definitely be a good plan. I'm definitely not a dick at the start sprinting off well below race pace.  I should be starting with people who had the same qualifying time, which might mean I end up in no mans land and not with a group trying to run the same pace as me.

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I'm doing my first in June other than IM back in 2014. I'm putting together my own program just cobbled together from a few different programs. Probably aim to go from 70km/week to around 100, maybe a little more? Won't be swimming or biking much, so should be able to clock up decent mileage.

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4 minutes ago, zed said:

I'm doing my first in June other than IM back in 2014. I'm putting together my own program just cobbled together from a few different programs. Probably aim to go from 70km/week to around 100, maybe a little more? Won't be swimming or biking much, so should be able to clock up decent mileage.

That’s a big ramp up in KM in a short space of time... regardless of swimming and biking not happening, your body won’t be able to handle the extra load caused by impact. If you want some help give me a shout...

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It all really starts at about the 30km mark, unless you get it wrong in which case it all pretty much ends at the 30km mark. 

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3 minutes ago, lawman said:

Don't you have to qualify for Boston with a marathon time?

yeah I paced a group at gold coast last year which got me a qualifying time.  This will be my first crack

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1 hour ago, willie said:

That’s a big ramp up in KM in a short space of time... regardless of swimming and biking not happening, your body won’t be able to handle the extra load caused by impact. If you want some help give me a shout...

cheers mate. Might call on you for some advice at some point. 

A lot of my running is easy/recovery running and I'm finding that easy on the body and the mind. I think if I was doing a lot of hard kms I'd struggle both physically and mentally. 

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2 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

I expect its a completely different beast to ironman and triathlon running in general so just interested to hear other peoples thoughts on it.

I've only run one marathon. It was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard, compared to an IM.

I'm not one to be giving you advice, just wanted to put in my 2c worth :)

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19 minutes ago, Cranky said:

I've only run one marathon. It was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard, compared to an IM.

I'm not one to be giving you advice, just wanted to put in my 2c worth :)

what did you find hard about it?

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Lose the beard, and move to Kenya for a few weeks. Accept anything the coach offers.

 

It's been a long time since I ran one, but I found the hardest thing was to not go too hard too early. I don't mean at the start, but at 20km, when you're still feeling good. You have to remember you are only halfway.

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Thanks Ex, I dont want to do a heap of marathons so I really wanna make this one count :)  Maybe I should have started training for it a few months ago and not starting today 

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1 hour ago, RunBrettRun said:

yeah I paced a group at gold coast last year which got me a qualifying time.  This will be my first crack

#respect

 

 

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33 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

Thanks Ex, I dont want to do a heap of marathons so I really wanna make this one count :)  Maybe I should have started training for it a few months ago and not starting today 

I think a 37 at Moo is a good start.  There is a bit of base there😊

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Don't run too many kms in training. Better to go a bit under rather than over train.

Watch for the flat spot, how you run that will determine your overall time.

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I'll watch out for the flat spot.  Boston is a bit of a rolling course which hopefully will break up the monotony a bit.  I can't stand flat courses.

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1 minute ago, RunBrettRun said:

I'll watch out for the flat spot.  Boston is a bit of a rolling course which hopefully will break up the monotony a bit.  I can't stand flat courses.

I meant in terms of pace. I always have a period in a marathon where I don't feel great and my pace starts to slip a bit. How I run this bit usually determines how I go overall.

Oh and as a pacer once said to me "the last 10kms are your own private hell". I think he just wanted me to shut up.

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4 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Will you be listening to music?

I'm offended you even asked.

2 years ago I paced the 2:10 half marathon group at gold coast.  It was like march of the zombies, everyone had headphones in.  One girl started talking to me around 6k in.  I was shocked and answered her back, she then took an ear piece out and said oh sorry no I'm on the phone.

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Its been a few years since I ran a stand alone marathon and all of them were done on Triathlon Training but during our winter so I could drop the bike back a bit and increase the run mileage.

During a 10 or 12 week period I usually averaged 70 to 75 k a week with a biggest week of 107k {only once}

I kept up the swimming milage as I found it assisted recovery but also my ability to use oxygen more efficiently.

I ran 7 Marathons over 4 years excluding a couple of IM marathons during the same period.

I gradually reduced my time from a first of 3.21 to the last of 2.30.02.In between was a 2.47 a 2.36 a 2.35 and a couple 0f 2.30s

The biggest difference was pacing,the first one I thaught I knew it all and went through the half in about 1.20 and blew to bits.I was warned by better runners than me but as I said I thaught I knew better.

I never increased my mileage I guess I had just built a consistent base over the years which gave me the improvements,that and being able to pace better.The last one I went through the half in 1.13 and dropped 4 mins in the second half but the reality was when I look at my diaries I actually dropped the 4 minutes in the last 5 k and I thaught I was running up and down on the spot I clearly remember thinking when will this be over !!!.This would be I guess a reasonably low total mileage in training compared to pure runners.

RBR,the thing I found was boredom during the later stages of the race because they wernt big fields and you could end up in no mans land and start to lose your focus.

A major marathon like boston with massive fields will assist you mentally during the final stages additionally you wont be running alone as whatever your pace there will be lots of similar runners around you.

You just need to be conscious of not getting dragged out too quickly.

A mate of mine here ran Boston last year and ran a 3.03 and said it was probably the best event in terms of spectator participation he has ever been too.

Best of Luck. 

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Thanks Triatx that was great info and exactly what I was after, I don't have any worries about my pacing ability as I tend to under estimate if anything.  I thought you might be right re boredom as in ironman you're rarely alone on the lap courses.

 

Greatly appreciate the response.

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39 minutes ago, Triatx said:

 

I gradually reduced my time from a first of 3.21 to the last of 2.30.02.In between was a 2.47 a 2.36 a 2.35 and a couple 0f 2.30s

 

Pretty impressive Triatx, although I think Mark Robson has ran quicker!

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I found it mentally challenging when i got to the point of my longest training run... 32km for me. 

I got a few spasms in my quads etc which had never happened in training. 

But it’s a great feeling when you cross the line. 

Ive spectated in Boston before.. it was freezing! 

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4 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

what did you find hard about it?

I don't know. It just felt really hard. ... and it wasn't my fastest time either.  I feel that the swim and bike warms me up ???

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Last time I did a full marathon, I was a whippet, young and inexperienced. I was going around on 20.1's around 85 mins. I took that same philosophy into the marathon going through through the first 20.1 in around 1.28 or 1.29. Hit the 30k mark. It was not pretty, body completely shut down, I didn't know about fueling back then. At the 35k mark a girl dressed as spongebob ran past me. 

I ended up coming home in 3.35ish. If i did one now, id settle into a comfortable pace for the first 30K, and then start to pick it up. As they say - the race starts at 30K

Good luck!

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1 hour ago, zed said:

Pretty impressive Triatx, although I think Mark Robson has ran quicker a faster time!

FIFY

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Your training application will dictate your race strategy.  From previous results RBR you are able to hold it together for 42.2km.  

I always use to bank on finishing faster and my training reflected this by doing harder running at the end of long runs.  As you know i am not a gadget person so my pacing was just based on how i felt. Training was done the same way.  

Stick to what you think your strengths are and use them.  As far as i can tell you can finish strongly and treat the last 10km like a 10km.  

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My main suggestion when running a World Marathon Major is to enjoy it. Don't aim for a PB, especially not in Boston (or NY).

Aim to run it comfortably so you can recall it later with good memories that you remember from the whole race. Leave your race face at home.

Don't fret about details of training now with only 6 weeks to go...you're likely to do more harm than good to your fitness, and risk injury. Just go soak it up.

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Ok! Understand now.... I'm a much more serious runner than a triathlete but still nowhere near your running ability but what I do for what it's worth:

1) Train with and listen to music. It's a massive aid for me (clearly not for you) but ups me by about 20s per KM as demonstrated at LCW.

2) Don't necessarily overdo the milage. The biggest risk in marathon training is injury. I went from 3:22 to 2:57 on three runs a week. Make it 4 I reckon I could get down to 2:50 but I stayed injury free which was critical. I found the most useful workouts were the long run in Z2 followed by kicking up to race pace for the last X minutes (up to 40).

3) I reckon negative splitting is overrated. I used the first third to bank. The middle third to be on pace and the last to try desperately to stay there and glad about the first third when the wall hit.

4) Totally different to IM or Tri racing. The wall comes completely unexpectedly. In IM (sample size one) I gradually got slower and slower until I started walk running. In marathons everything is golden and you reckon 15 mins ahead of target is on cards and then BANG. Game could be over but suck it up and it's doable.

Hope some of that is vaguely useful!

Monkie

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6 hours ago, CEM said:

My main suggestion when running a World Marathon Major is to enjoy it. Don't aim for a PB, especially not in Boston (or NY).

Aim to run it comfortably so you can recall it later with good memories that you remember from the whole race. Leave your race face at home.

Don't fret about details of training now with only 6 weeks to go...you're likely to do more harm than good to your fitness, and risk injury. Just go soak it up.

I don't like quoting full posts, but the above is all great advice!

If you want to have a crack then go for it.  If you're enjoying it then you'll probably do a great time anyway, if not you'll have a great experience.

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10 hours ago, CEM said:

My main suggestion when running a World Marathon Major is to enjoy it. Don't aim for a PB, especially not in Boston (or NY).

Aim to run it comfortably so you can recall it later with good memories that you remember from the whole race. Leave your race face at home.

Don't fret about details of training now with only 6 weeks to go...you're likely to do more harm than good to your fitness, and risk injury. Just go soak it up.

I agree with this if it is a bucket list thing definitely, but if you're going to go back again, throw everything at it. 

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What time are you aiming at RBR? If you did 2:59 comfortably at the GC, would you be looking at the 2:30 mark? 

That would not be fun under any circumstances I wouldn't imagine.

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My goal is sub 4min ks.  So sub 2.48.  I will be starting with people with similar qual time I believe so 2.59.  Hopefully a few of those will go out too hard and give me something to follow and then pick off as they start tiring.

 

I've been doing my 70.3 racepace efforts between 3.50 and 4.00 ks so that's been my guide for this.  

 

I understand what CEM is saying 're enjoying it.  I actually take a whole lot in when I am running.  Maybe I lack that focus the really top guys have but in my best races I've been smiling, thanking vollies and high fiving kids on the sidelines.  I plan to do this in Boston too.

 

I used to have s dream of running a Sub 2.30 marathon but I enjoy triathlon too much now to just run all the time.

 

Thanks for all the responses it's been good reading!

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How big are the start brackets? 2:55-3:00? or 2:45-3:00?

Another event on the bucket list I would love to do

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I've only done one,  at Tenby LCW. Took me 5.15 and a lot of pain, if you don't like flat marathons, it sounds right up your alley:lol: 

 

 

profile-marathon.jpg

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Im not sure of the exact setup at the start line but this is the information off the boston marathon page.

 

Im bib number 4390 and wave 1, coral 5.

 

i read the below that wave 1 is sub 3:09:36 wave 2 is then up to 3:28:48 etc.

 

The break between Wave 1 (10:00 a.m. start time) and Wave 2 (10:25 a.m. start time) is 3:09:36.
The break between Wave 2 and Wave 3 (10:50 a.m. start time) is 3:28:48.
The break between Wave 3 and Wave 4 (11:15 a.m. start time) is 3:57:39

 

 

Bib Range Bib Color Wave Start Time
101-7,700 Red 1 10:00 a.m.
8,000-15,600 White 2 10:25 a.m.
16,000-23,600 Blue 3 10:50 a.m.
24,000-32,500 Yellow 4 11:15 a.m

 

image.png.6f32e7e5227903a4aab6c855310a4bf3.png

 

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That to me sound like you will be running with everyone under 3:09, and I think your bib number relates to your qual time so there should be 4000 people for you too chase

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This has been great reading, I'm intending to do a Mara this year with it being 10 years since I did my first (and only) stand alone mara.

Have a ball RBR and good luck.

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I agree Nealo, while all my training and pacing advice I will always ask my coach, getting some other peoples actual experiences in a marathon is awesome.

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From my first & best marathon so far (an hour or so slower than your plan)

Rox says the 30 km mark, but I found 35 km, I was really on the limit.

I could still keep up the pace, but calves and hammies were barking a bit.

I was at Melbourne, so nothing like Boston big, but keeping aware of others was an issue at times.

With sub 3 guys, there should be less of the random stop/change direction stuff, I'd assume.

40-42.2 km I was buzzing, cos I knew I was finishing in good time.

 

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