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Marathon times

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2 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

In 1980 50 people ran below 2:40 and 384 below 3 hours 

In 2017 34 people ran below 2:40 and 254 people ran below 3 hours 

GC Marathon results only go back to 2006 on their webpage. 

2006 - 2,405 competitors. Average time = 4:14. 138 people went under 3 hours

2017 = 5,911 competitors. Average time dropped to 4:25. 249 people went under 3 hours

 

Nearly twice as many people are running under 3 hours, but the average finisher time is slower. Do you say people are running slower, or that the huge increase in numbers is due to people that previously wouldn't think of running a Marathon, are now doing it. 

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And I think the AWESOME thing that we're missing is that more people are running marathons full stop. That's great news!

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Aaaaaaargh!!!

that should come with a warning for the queasy. 

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1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

GC Marathon results only go back to 2006 on their webpage. 

2006 - 2,405 competitors. Average time = 4:14. 138 people went under 3 hours

2017 = 5,911 competitors. Average time dropped to 4:25. 249 people went under 3 hours

 

Nearly twice as many people are running under 3 hours, but the average finisher time is slower. Do you say people are running slower, or that the huge increase in numbers is due to people that previously wouldn't think of running a Marathon, are now doing it. 

I just want to point out that I was one of those sub 3 in 2017.  Nothing else to add.

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17 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

I just want to point out that I was one of those sub 3 in 2017.  Nothing else to add.

Weren't you "on" 3 rather than sub? ;)

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41 minutes ago, Naut said:

Awesome that more people have toes looking like this.

 

2F99DD33-F21B-4FCB-ADDE-D4EB91CDBCBF.jpeg

Thought I did okay after two bays this year, got to Wednesday night and was pressing down on one nail feeling a bit funny, bust the blister under the nail I didn't even realise was there and the next day had the nail fall off.  Blister peeled and took all the skin off the front of the toe with it.  I reckon frostbite would look better than that toe currently

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If everyone just got up at 3am, it would be a different story!

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On 01/02/2018 at 2:52 PM, Fitness Buddy said:

Doesnt surprise me.  In fact already knew this.  

It really goes to show that all those garmins havent helped people get faster actually technology has to be the biggest factor here.  People sit more, have poorer mobility, less strength, seek magic pills and yse time as an excuse.  

Who claims garmins make  you faster. They are a measurement, review monitoring and alert tool. Used properly to measure and provide feedback to a training programme they should help people train more effectively and pace their races.

Strength has little to do with running a good marathon

Running more has lots to do with running a good marathon. People sit more at work,  while standing at work would do more for fitness than sitting, I know when I run 80 plus K weeks I love to sit, sitting is not a determinant of marathon performance.

As for mobility who says we are less mobile? What does the term mean, suppose there are lot of  old people who are not so mobile and have scooters etc.

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2 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

I just want to point out that I was one of those sub 3 in 2017.  Nothing else to add.

No mention of your beard.... 🤔🤔😂

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2 hours ago, monkie said:

Weren't you "on" 3 rather than sub? ;)

Pacers job is to get you in UNDER the time.  Plus I wanted it too 😉

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19 minutes ago, FFF1077 said:

No mention of your beard.... 🤔🤔😂

Speaks for itself really 

2 hours ago, monkie said:

Weren't you "on" 3 rather than sub? ;)

Pacers job is to get you in UNDER the time. Plus I wanted it too 😉

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1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

Who claims garmins make  you faster. They are a measurement, review monitoring and alert tool. Used properly to measure and provide feedback to a training programme they should help people train more effectively and pace their races.

Strength has little to do with running a good marathon

Running more has lots to do with running a good marathon. People sit more at work,  while standing at work would do more for fitness than sitting, I know when I run 80 plus K weeks I love to sit, sitting is not a determinant of marathon performance.

As for mobility who says we are less mobile? What does the term mean, suppose there are lot of  old people who are not so mobile and have scooters etc.

Ask Roxii.  

Used properly and not over used.

Mobility do some research.  Do you still move like a kid? 

Strength - is an element in every sport thing called strength endurance.  Those who win dont generally win because they are the best runner, they are the runner that doesnt slow down as much which them comes back to strength endurance remember the heart is a muscle.  

As for sitting no point explaining.  

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48 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Ask Roxii.  

Used properly and not over used.

Mobility do some research.  Do you still move like a kid? 

Strength - is an element in every sport thing called strength endurance.  Those who win dont generally win because they are the best runner, they are the runner that doesnt slow down as much which them comes back to strength endurance remember the heart is a muscle.  

As for sitting no point explaining.  

Are you curious about the points of view of others?

 

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55 minutes ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Ask Roxii.  

Used properly and not over used.

Mobility do some research.  Do you still move like a kid? 

Strength - is an element in every sport thing called strength endurance.  Those who win dont generally win because they are the best runner, they are the runner that doesnt slow down as much which them comes back to strength endurance remember the heart is a muscle.  

As for sitting no point explaining.  

Mobility, I'm in mid 40's and can do two handed slam dunks reverse dunks and catch the ball of a throw and dunk. Not quite like 19 but it's still pretty mobile.

 

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25 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Are you curious about the points of view of others?

 

Yes mate.  Intention is to always help. My approach made be blunt but if i can convince people think about what and how there body is moving first before all the other stuff. 

I could just join the party and say get tech is the only way but I am not because it is not.  

Some get me some don't.  

 

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I think the 'getting slower' just reflects more marathons and more people doing them, including more AGers, including old codgers affecting averages. In some ways just reversion to population mean. If only the top times at the top marathons were included difference would likely be narrower - and of course world record times continue to reduce (in most sports).  Not to totally dismiss it though, population in general is getting  taller,  heavier and fatter, despite more people doing marathons - even if that would still only be what, single digit percentages surely, but e.g. might be 1% now versus 0.25% in the 80s (population has grown ~50%).

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I find no surprises in this article.

There are more people running marathons, but fewer racing them. It is more about finishing now days, rather than running the distance as well as one can, which seemed to be the prevailing attitude back in the '80s.

I ran my first marathons in 1983, as did my mother. Consequently, I paid attention to the times of runners not just where I was racing (3:05 on debut), but also at the BOP where Mum competed and as a fan of the sport, also what the fast men and women were doing.

At popular marathons, there always seemed to be plenty of packs of runners around the 3 hour pace.

Despite increases in participation, we're just not seeing the depth of runners among the men from the 2:20 through to 3 hour that was common in the early '80s. Nor have we seen it for decades.

When my mother was running marathons around 4 hours in the mid '80s, she was a BOP runner. Now 4:08 is average.....for men! Mum was repeatedly running those sort of times in her 60s.

Sydney supported plenty of marathons back then too. From April to October we had the State Champs at Holsworthy, the Legal and General at Manly, the Wang (Sydney's largest and highest profile), Campbelltown, Western Districts Joggers at Lake Gillawarna, Cities (Sydney Town Hall to Blacktown), and the Sydney, finishing at the Opera House. Maybe it was the final year of the Palm Beach to Sydney too.

That's seven or eight that I can recall and I'm sure I've forgotten a third marathon in August between WDJH and Cities. (Where's Big Chris when you need him?)

Also there was the the Avon Women's Marathon out at Manly. Yes, Sydney even had a women's marathon, half, 10km and 3 km. (Actually, Big Chris may have run that one. :whistling: )

Of course, endurance sport has diversified since 1983. Ultras were niche but beginning to flourish on the back of the first Sydney to Melbourne and the boom in marathon running, but triathlon was nascent, and adventure racing, MTBing and obstacle races like Tough Mudder were all yet to be conceived of sports of the future. Trail running, whether it be short distances or ultras, was relatively uncommon.

On the bright side, the current depth among our elite women marathoners is fantastic. More Aussie women running sub 2:32 than we've ever seen.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

I find no surprises in this article.

There are more people running marathons, but fewer racing them. It is more about finishing now days, rather than running the distance as well as one can, which seemed to be the prevailing attitude back in the '80s.

I ran my first marathons in 1983, as did my mother. Consequently, I paid attention to the times of runners not just where I was racing (3:05 on debut), but also at the BOP where Mum competed and as a fan of the sport, also what the fast men and women were doing.

At popular marathons, there always seemed to be plenty of packs of runners around the 3 hour pace.

Despite increases in participation, we're just not seeing the depth of runners among the men from the 2:20 through to 3 hour that was common in the early '80s. Nor have we seen it for decades.

When my mother was running marathons around 4 hours in the mid '80s, she was a BOP runner. Now 4:08 is average.....for men! Mum was repeatedly running those sort of times in her 60s.

Sydney supported plenty of marathons back then too. From April to October we had the State Champs at Holsworthy, the Legal and General at Manly, the Wang (Sydney's largest and highest profile), Campbelltown, Western Districts Joggers at Lake Gillawarna, Cities (Sydney Town Hall to Blacktown), and the Sydney, finishing at the Opera House. Maybe it was the final year of the Palm Beach to Sydney too.

That's seven or eight that I can recall and I'm sure I've forgotten a third marathon in August between WDJH and Cities. (Where's Big Chris when you need him?)

Also there was the the Avon Women's Marathon out at Manly. Yes, Sydney even had a women's marathon, half, 10km and 3 km. (Actually, Big Chris may have run that one. :whistling: )

Of course, endurance sport has diversified since 1983. Ultras were niche but beginning to flourish on the back of the first Sydney to Melbourne and the boom in marathon running, but triathlon was nascent, and adventure racing, MTBing and obstacle races like Tough Mudder were all yet to be conceived of sports of the future. Trail running, whether it be short distances or ultras, was relatively uncommon.

On the bright side, the current depth among our elite women marathoners is fantastic. More Aussie women running sub 2:32 than we've ever seen.

 

 

Great post. I truly enjoy hearing about stuff from when I was too young to know better. Awesome. Thanks 

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12 hours ago, longshot said:

I think the 'getting slower' just reflects more marathons and more people doing them, including more AGers, including old codgers affecting averages. In some ways just reversion to population mean. If only the top times at the top marathons were included difference would likely be narrower - and of course world record times continue to reduce (in most sports).  Not to totally dismiss it though, population in general is getting  taller,  heavier and fatter, despite more people doing marathons - even if that would still only be what, single digit percentages surely, but e.g. might be 1% now versus 0.25% in the 80s (population has grown ~50%).

Maybe there are more old codgers, but I'd guess there are fewer fast old codgers.

One of my mentors was a wonderful gentleman named George McGrath. George ran in the 2:40s well into his 60s.

I remember one year when George was at least in his mid 60s. He raced 11 marathons with few, if any, slower than 3 hours. He also placed about third outright in the Sydney to Wollongong 50 miler in a competitive tussle with Cliff Young.

Or the year when John Gilmour came over from WA to race George in the hilly Sydney Striders Half Marathon. A tight race with both running around 84 minutes.

 

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I’m seeing BIG CHRIS tomorrow. 

I’ll get him to check in. 

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14 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Yes mate.  Intention is to always help. My approach made be blunt but if i can convince people think about what and how there body is moving first before all the other stuff. 

I could just join the party and say get tech is the only way but I am not because it is not.  

Some get me some don't.  

 

Agree with you tech is not the only way. The people who are at the pointy end tend to be there regardless of the tech. Though tech can be handy, it is also expensive and provides about a thousand views of the same data. The power curve on the various IT things are handy though for measuring performance and pacing.

Strength endurance, its all really endurance. The slowing down the least is mainly to do with having trained and not over done the first part of the race and not in pure terms that much to do with strength. Though I get the term as you are using it.

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28 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

It is more about finishing now days, rather than running the distance as well as one can

Those peeps at the slower end may still be running it as well as they can. But maybe 10 yrs ago they wouldn't have felt comfortable entering at all. 

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Though there still are some quality performances by our veteran marathoners.

Lavinia Petrie's 3:38 at 71 at Wangaratta Marathon just a couple of years ago was phenomenal. WR for W70-74.

As an aside, I had the pleasure of sharing the track with Lavinia at the Australian 50 Mile Champs in 1992. I cracked, she ran beautifully to break the Australian 50 Mile record.

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