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roxii

Running faster by running slower. Tips please

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You want slow, I'm your man! Ask away......I am so smrt

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2 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Yes that is the best way to do it.  My version is non gadget variety.  Someone has to be.  

thanks, while i like my gadgets, i can't see it when running as don't run in reading glasses.

 

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1 hour ago, zed said:

But running hard is also responsible for the majority of running injuries and running is one of the most injurious sports out there. Easy runs are a critical part of any decent run program. If you're doing all your running at moderate - high intensity if you don't pick up an injury you belong to a very small % of the population. 

Totally agree with you here. I do easy runs too but if I run too slowly my form suffers. The point was in relation to Roxi saying he felt awkward. I guess there's a 'sweet spot' we all need to find for our own bodies for that day...

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3 hours ago, pieman said:

my HR is over 130 no matter how slowly I run... no idea how you keep it so low... (higher aerobic fitness..)

I used to run at 6:00 with a 150+HR 

But I threw the ego in the bin and followed instructions. 

 

YES IT WAS FRUSTRATING AND REALLY CRUSHED MY SOUL 

 

But now... I am soooooo ****ing happy to have made the effort, it's still a work in progress. 

 

Remember that I walked. Walked my runs to start with. Walk. Walking. Not walk run. Walk. On flat ground. In the cool air. Easy as I could. I want to get a really deep level of aerobic fitness. Really slowly and properly*

 

 

*in my opinion only 

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2 hours ago, BogFrog said:

Totally agree with you here. I do easy runs too but if I run too slowly my form suffers. The point was in relation to Roxi saying he felt awkward. I guess there's a 'sweet spot' we all need to find for our own bodies for that day...

And like I've said, that's because his low end fitness is under developed 

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Watch this - explains this whole thread with science and data from professionals in endurance https://lecturecapture.brookes.ac.uk/Mediasite/Play/3b951db65dd44082a876060aab67f5c51d

Summary

- Spend 80% of your time running in Z1, Z2

- Spend 20% of your time in Z4 and Z5,  zone 4 with longer intervals seems to be the sweet spot

Rest between intervals - optimum at 2mins.

Plans using the science that you can roll into Training Peaks here  http://8020endurance.com/8020-run-plans/

 

 

 

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I agree the awkward feeling is the fact you feel horrible running in that zone which requires work.  It's uncomfortable which it shouldn't be cause you're moving so slowly compared how fast you think you need to run.  Trained with plenty of guys who say they can't run slow.  But they sure as hell do on raceday.

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I actually felt very comfortable running at 6:30/km this morning. Considering this is getting toward double what I want to be doing, I must have this "running slow" bit down pat.

I think we've nailed it Goughy.

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44 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

  Trained with plenty of guys who say they can't run slow.  But they sure as hell do on raceday.

:lol:

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2 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I actually felt very comfortable running at 6:30/km this morning. Considering this is getting toward double what I want to be doing, I must have this "running slow" bit down pat.

I think we've nailed it Goughy.

Well done fellas!

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8 hours ago, CEM said:

Don't overthink it.

Slow is not necessarily easy, and easy is not necessarily slow. So forgot about pace. Think about effort.

Easy effort is easy effort. Where you can hear the birds sing, take in the surrounds and chat to someone.

Don't think about cadence (although it will be slower at an easy effort than when running at a higher effort). Think about being light on your feet...like you're running through a field of daisies, or over pebbly ground in bare feet.

The key point is, easy effort is a 'feel' thing, not a number. If you find it hard to ignore your watch, then cover it up. The numbers will differ day to day, but the feel of being easy will be much the same...although some days just feel like a struggle.

I'm an advocate your using a GPS watch, running power meter, HR, etc, because they all give you information that is part of the puzzle...even if the puzzle changes day to day. The key is learning when and how to use them. Use them as a tool, but don't be a tool using them.

Finally, when it's time to go easy, which is 80-90% of the time (in running), then go easy. But when it's time to go hard, go hard.

This is pretty good.  I like it.  

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7 hours ago, FFF1077 said:

I don't judge it by GPS. 

It's there retrospectively. As well as the HR measurement. 

 

All I focus on is the feeling. And form. 

Nice.  The GPS can be confirmation of improvement rather then dictating effort for you

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Just out of interest i do DWR as what is referred as regeneration or easy slow run.  Non impact but still works the posterior chain muscles well.  

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2 hours ago, Fitness Buddy said:

Nice.  The GPS can be confirmation of improvement rather then dictating effort for you

EXACTLY 

I look at it afterwards. 

 

But if it feels like I am really working but definitely moving slowly I check it and HR and if both are out, then I am on watch for deep fatigue or a virus 

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I have trained like this from way back in the early 90s - my mates would all win the training runs and then I'd take 30-40min off them in an IM marathon

As a coach the hardest thing to "sell" to guys in the squad is to run slow to build an efficient aerobic base - the easiest measure of "what is the right pace for slow work" is breathe in for three foot strikes - breathe out for three foot strikes - so it's simple - breathe in- in - in - out - out - out - at this breathing rate you'll find your heart rate at 70-80% of max - it's a pace you can continue a conversation at

The next question is always at what stage do I do some faster running - not before six weeks of purely slow base building - then enter a race and make that your speed work or "test" - then do another six weeks slow B)

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Years ago I had a pow wow (paid for it) with a local guru who is all about maff etc etc.  Couldn't afford him for programs, but picked his brain a few times.  He wanted me to do everything at maff low hr (he worked it out for me) and said never go over it.  I asked him "what about speed work etc".  He said "go do a race".

Did I listen, did it work.  Yeah - you know the answer ;)

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3 hours ago, AP said:

I have trained like this from way back in the early 90s - my mates would all win the training runs and then I'd take 30-40min off them in an IM marathon

As a coach the hardest thing to "sell" to guys in the squad is to run slow to build an efficient aerobic base - the easiest measure of "what is the right pace for slow work" is breathe in for three foot strikes - breathe out for three foot strikes - so it's simple - breathe in- in - in - out - out - out - at this breathing rate you'll find your heart rate at 70-80% of max - it's a pace you can continue a conversation at

The next question is always at what stage do I do some faster running - not before six weeks of purely slow base building - then enter a race and make that your speed work or "test" - then do another six weeks slow B)

Running easy, but higher volume though?

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1 hour ago, zed said:

Running easy, but higher volume though?

I've never run more than 70km in the biggest week ever in 44 IM preparations - most times averaged 50km

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Roxii, try running with your mouth shut. Seriously. Breathe through your nose only and limit pace so you don't have to open your mouth. Read it in a 1 hour training session book and can't remember if it was Mark Newton or Scott Molina who wrote up this session but it was long intervals of nose breathing over a one hour run. Certainly slows you down, makes you think about your breathing. Won't be for everyone.

ETA: equates well with AP's 3 foot strike breathing pattern I reckon.

Edited by Parkside
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1 minute ago, Parkside said:

Roxii, try running with your mouth shut. Seriously. Breathe through your nose only and limit pace so you don't have to open your mouth. Read it in a 1 hour training session book and can't remember if it was Mark Newton or Scott Molina who wrote up this session but it was long intervals of nose breathing over a one hour run. Certainly slows you down, makes you think about your breathing. Won't be for everyone.

ETA: equates well with AP's 3 foot strike breathing pattern I reckon.

This is what I use to moderate pace effort to "aerobic"

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19 minutes ago, Parkside said:

Roxii, try running with your mouth shut. Seriously. Breathe through your nose only and limit pace so you don't have to open your mouth. Read it in a 1 hour training session book and can't remember if it was Mark Newton or Scott Molina who wrote up this session but it was long intervals of nose breathing over a one hour run. Certainly slows you down, makes you think about your breathing. Won't be for everyone.

ETA: equates well with AP's 3 foot strike breathing pattern I reckon.

Agree with the 4 steps idea. Couldn't do the nose only thing. But if it works then go for it. 

Just consciously slow down. Walk. Try really hard to go slowly. It's not easy. 

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Thanks all, still have an injury Im trying to get sorted which has ruined this season for me, but have set the Garmin to Zone 2 and will give it a shot.  (Bloody hell those HR's are low though)  

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2 hours ago, roxii said:

Thanks all, still have an injury Im trying to get sorted which has ruined this season for me, but have set the Garmin to Zone 2 and will give it a shot.  (Bloody hell those HR's are low though)  

TBH I think zone 2 is slightly too low. Well it just feels ridiculously slow. I tend to be in more zone 3. Also I don't know how accurate the standard max HR calculation is i.e subtract age from 220. My actual max HR is 15 bpm faster, which would skew my zones if I was using the standard calculation. 

 

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