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Peter

So froome is a drug cheat

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6 minutes ago, TenPints said:

Still doesn't add up for me though. Why take something above specified dosage deliberately, when it is known that it is so easily detected.

The red herring B)

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3 hours ago, roxii said:

When I saw that on my phone I didnt realise it was you Alex. 

What were you checking for??  :lol:

 

lol

That was the prologue start at the Sun Tour earlier this year. I was the designated holder. It's actually quite a tricky job holding 120 or so riders for their start.

I'll be back at the Sun Tour again - starts in about 6 weeks.

 

30 minutes ago, TenPints said:

Thanks mate, will do more reading about this. It seems UCI allow cyclists to take the substance through inhalation only - do we know if Chris Froome aligned with this requirement?

Still doesn't add up for me though. Why take something above specified dosage deliberately, when it is known that it is so easily detected.

While there is a designated limit on the amount one can use per day, that's not what can be tested for. Testing is via urine sample and that can't really distinguish the means of taking the drug (inhaled, ingested or injected). Also each individual metabolises the drug at different rates, so two people taking same dose at same time may some hours later have wildly different test sample concentrations.

You might get some idea if you had multiple samples over a period to assess the rate of changes in concentration.

The testing limit for an adverse analytical finding (AAF) is pretty generous such that being beyond it is strongly suggestive that use is not isolated to reasonable medical need, and being twice that limit suggests something is up although whether it is considered to be an anti-doping rule violation (ADRV) is another matter.

It's rather complex and not a black and white issue. Given the concentration it is however a rather dark shade of grey.

The way the rules work, the onus is now on Froome to *prove* the AAF is not worthy of an ADRV and accompanying sanctions. That will require quite complex pharma-kinetic study on Froome himself.

It's partly why AAFs are supposed to be kept in confidence and riders are not provisionally suspended until all the data are in. There are legitimate reasons why such limits may be breached and natural justice should be permitted to take place. Of course it can also be doping and an ADRV may apply.

Sky and Froome have known about it for months, so we should expect they are some way along with this process but it's not a quick turnaround. This will drag on for quite some time, and of course will dominate the storyline where ever he goes.

The circus rolls on.

Edited by Alex Simmons
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Quote

 

This is one of the most tested athlete's on the planet that is well aware of the upper limits for Salbutamol for him personally. He has managed this for more than 10 years. To be 100% over the limit is bizarre to be almost incredulous. To be at 1200 or 1300, you could understand, but to actually INHALE twice this amount is a ludicrous proposition. Which leads to the proposal of INGESTION, making the higher reading more plausible.

 

Study demonstrating performance benefits when INGESTING Salbutamol - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16195983

 

Quote

The data demonstrate that the chronic administration of therapeutic levels of salbutamol increases maximal anaerobic power in man, irrespective of the subjects' training status

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Belpor said:

Isn't Salbutimol the drug that Contador got banned for? From apparently ingesting through tainted beef? 

clenbuterol?

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2 hours ago, Chris @ PB3 said:

This is one of the most tested athlete's on the planet that is well aware of the upper limits for Salbutamol for him personally. He has managed this for more than 10 years. To be 100% over the limit is bizarre to be almost incredulous. To be at 1200 or 1300, you could understand, but to actually INHALE twice this amount is a ludicrous proposition. Which leads to the proposal of INGESTION, making the higher reading more plausible.

 

Study demonstrating performance benefits when INGESTING Salbutamol - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16195983

 

 

 

Hadn't it been said before, that the only reason any of these guys get caught us because they stuffed up, not because they were actually doping. Maybe after years of managing it will, he made a little mistake.

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4 hours ago, Peter said:

Cycling isnt that dirty. 

Other sports heaps worse. 

DC9F8D64-17B6-4675-965D-36D31AF4DA3A.jpeg

They don't test wide enough in the sports, have you seen the pill boxes the average lawn bowler has in their retirement home rooms?  They're popping pills every hour on the hour

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7 minutes ago, Cottoneyes said:

They don't test wide enough in the sports, have you seen the pill boxes the average lawn bowler has in their retirement home rooms?  They're popping pills every hour on the hour

Yeah - they should go after the real dopers - leave cyclists alone 

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For those interested in the research on whether salbutamol is performance enhancing, here's a list of some of the research:

There are probably a stack more.

Potential positive impact on athletic performance:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26197029
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25077918
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23559124
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22230921
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17264145
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16687481
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16195983
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16195982
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15459835
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11071049
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10926623
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10912897
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9200320
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8587482
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3293733


Not positive or possibly negative impact on athletic performance:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25894531
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25856682
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24790479
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24451697
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24100289
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21327796
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21083771
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18091010
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11514686
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8894333
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8781870
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8365829
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7552768
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6656562
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435165


Each way bet:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23834392

 

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I might be way off base, but I reckon his 'big' Salbutamol usage was probably pre Vuelta, and was used for weight loss...then found its way back into his body via a little bit of a transfusion.... just like how Contador used Clen to drop weight, and re-infused tainted blood.

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Enjoying this. But didn't MR also get busted?  

Still awaiting on lance Armstrong comments. 

IMG_0915.PNG

IMG_0916.PNG

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9 hours ago, Peter said:

Cycling isnt that dirty. 

Other sports heaps worse. 

DC9F8D64-17B6-4675-965D-36D31AF4DA3A.jpeg

Looks like tennis, MMA and body building don't get tested enough😆

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

Enjoying this. But didn't MR also get busted?  

Still awaiting on lance Armstrong comments. 

IMG_0915.PNG

IMG_0916.PNG

This is probably the reason I would never make it as a professional athlete ... these guys have skin as thick as rhinos and don't really give a toss what the rest of society thinks of them. We have nothing - absolutely nothing - to learn from Rasmussen, Armstrong and all the other cheats once we see how conniving, duplicitous and disgusting human beings they are. They are not concerned about their legacies and will die, old, (hopefully) penniless and alone - without any true friends.

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32 minutes ago, Rimmer said:

They are not concerned about their legacies and will die, old, (hopefully) penniless and alone - without any true friends.

Unfortunately most die rich surrounded by devoted followers.

Indurain's net worth is estimated at $10M US, and coincidently the only thing he ever tested positive for was,

 

 

wait for it,

 

 

 

Salbutamol.

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10 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Unfortunately most die rich surrounded by devoted followers.

The only followers I want Lance to be surrounded by are lawyers .... who will hopefully bleed him dry.

Amazing how his predecessor (Delgado) was found guilty and nothing was done and the legacy of doped Spanish cycling teams continues 30 years later with Movistar!

Time to probably bring in a "run what you bring" rule, open the floodgates and watch the freakshow begin!

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9 hours ago, Rimmer said:

Time to probably bring in a "run what you bring" rule, open the floodgates and watch the freakshow begin!

That approach will filter down to all levels of the sport, in particular juniors.

 

19 hours ago, Peter said:

Cycling isnt that dirty. 

Other sports heaps worse. 

DC9F8D64-17B6-4675-965D-36D31AF4DA3A.jpeg

That's not a statement of doping levels but rather a statement of the inadequacy of anti-doping.

In any case, not sure you'd want to boast about having more doping than bodybuilding or rugby.

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16 hours ago, Cottoneyes said:

They don't test wide enough in the sports, have you seen the pill boxes the average lawn bowler has in their retirement home rooms?  They're popping pills every hour on the hour

Clearly anything that enables these lawn bowlers to play competitively on a beer at each end should be on the banned list!

A lifetime ago our Rugby club would have an annual bowls day, with an elderly gent from the bowling club on each team of three or four.  Those blokes would slam down a 7oz of Reschs Pilsener (from 8.00 am) at each change of ends and still hit the jack two hours later.  Whereas the sand at each end was handy to soak up my dribble when I fell asleep on the green!

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Froome, busted..... No surprise...and who cares........ Let them all dope and die young. It will be the only way to prove who is the best.

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13 hours ago, Peter said:

Enjoying this. But didn't MR also get busted?  

Yes, but he didn't go with the "only did it once" style defence.

He actually admitted everything and listed places/things etc to authorities.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/michael-rasmussen-confesses-to-12-years-of-doping/

So, even though he didn't come clean until after everything blew up, he was open about it and isn't afraid to speak his mind on current events.

He tweets the perspective of someone who has done similar things and used similar excuses.

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