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Peter

Hand back your Pro Card

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12 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

just make all races open and if you win it, you win it.

 

Piss off age group to over 45, rename it masters, 

So take the races within a race out of it?

 

Seems like a dumb idea

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Pretty solid artical by Matty. 

One thing he didn't touch on is the "value" (monetary) of a pro licence.  If you are a "pro" and take out a $2000 licence, that means if you race 3 Ironmans (or 2 and 2 x 70.3) in a year you are ahead financially. 

Couple this with a swim that is less rough (ie sit on the back) than an AG mass start as well as bike racking priority etc, it makes sense these "pros" renew their licence every year

Edited by ghettodeluxe
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Suggested it to a local guy who was fast enough, he was already considering if it was worth it for him and what he wanted to do.

 

Don't call over 45s masters, I haven't mastered anything yet!

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1 hour ago, Oompa Loompa said:

just make all races open and if you win it, you win it.

 

Piss off age group to over 45, rename it masters, 

Great idea

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17 minutes ago, goughy said:

Suggested it to a local guy who was fast enough, he was already considering if it was worth it for him and what he wanted to do.

 

Don't call over 45s masters, I haven't mastered anything yet!

Surely you’ve mastered your own domain. 

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38 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

Surely you’ve mastered your own domain. 

Kids and spouse leave me under no illusion about not being a “master of my domain” (let alone any other)!

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16 hours ago, Oompa Loompa said:

just make all races open and if you win it, you win it.

 

Piss off age group to over 45, rename it masters, 

But then the 85 year olds would never win :(

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2 hours ago, Cranky said:

But then the 85 year olds would never win :(

They win by being alive still. 

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20 hours ago, Oompa Loompa said:

just make all races open and if you win it, you win it.

 

Piss off age group to over 45, rename it masters, 

Why 45 and over? 45-49 was on average the most competitive age group for Busso 70.3. Irrespectively, what is wrong with rewarding someone even if they weren’t outright winner. They know they didn’t win overall, we know that, it’s a little metaphorical pat on the back for all the hard work and training they put in. Plus if it’s only top 3 overall that gets the medals then there will be about 12 people total doing Kona, 70.3 world champs wouldn’t exist as  well as all the other age group races. Age groups are an Integral part of triathlon, as Brett said it’s a race within a race. On Sunday I knew who the top 3 were and spent the whole day trying to chase them down. I liked that. 

Edited by zed
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18 hours ago, softy said:

Masters shouldn't be over 45. It should be over 55!

Why not make it "under retirement age - 65 - and over retirement age) those old retired bastards are the true professionals - they've spent their life amassing a large nest egg to live off while they train full time - truly the self sponsored pro athlete :wheelchair:

Keep in mind it's the age groupers who pay the bills in this sport - they throw in more than the sponsors in a lot of cases 

I have always believed that in any race if an age grouper posts a faster time than a pro place-getter he should get the prize money - give it to the fastest athletes B)

 

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1 hour ago, AP said:

I have always believed that in any race if an age grouper posts a faster time than a pro place-getter he should get the prize money - give it to the fastest athletes

I was once asked after a race if I'd like to change my entry to pro rather than AG as they were going to be embarrassed giving the first prize cheque to a guy that didn't win. He actually came 3rd in the race.

I remember a bike race where a young Troy Fidler was racing B-grade and when he won they didn't pay him the winner's cheque, as even though it wasn't written in any rule-book, they said they had to award it to the first A-grader. The main sponsor (who was there) then got up and wrote another cheque and presented it to him.

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In golf you can win the title but not take a Cheque.   I believe that's fair.

 

In triathlon I don't take any notice of overall results unless you start in the pro/open field.

 

Especially in women age groupers, there is too much outside influence back in the field.

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On 08/12/2017 at 3:00 PM, Peter said:

The article is misleading:

Denis CHEVROT (16) 08:05:57 Professional  (1) Male  (1) 00:46:22 00:02:05 04:26:41 00:01:37 02:49:11
2 Patrik NILSSON (4) 08:12:10 Professional  (2) Male  (2) 00:47:03 00:01:58 04:27:49 00:01:41 02:53:37
3 Per BITTNER (13) 08:14:36 Professional  (3) Male  (3) 00:48:35 00:01:44 04:26:20 00:01:26 02:56:28
4 Romain GUILLAUME (2) 08:21:14 Professional  (4) Male  (4) 00:47:06 00:01:58 04:30:16 00:02:28 02:59:23
5 Mike SCHIFFERLE (28) 08:34:17 Professional  (5) Male  (5) 00:59:31 00:03:24 04:23:11 00:02:53 03:05:16
6 Simon COCHRANE (15) 08:36:25 Professional  (6) Male  (6) 00:50:20 00:02:01 04:37:59 00:02:04 03:03:59
7 Gergo MOLN-R (23) 08:42:10 Professional  (7) Male  (7) 00:48:50 00:01:58 04:35:31 00:02:21 03:13:29
8 Allister CAIRD (157) 08:45:28 Ages 25 - 29  (1) Male  (8) 00:56:57 00:02:19 04:43:05 00:01:58 03:01:06
9 Owain MATTHEWS (398) 08:47:29 Ages 30 - 34  (1) Male  (9) 00:56:24 00:02:14 04:49:40 00:01:43 02:57:27
10 Jan VAN BERKEL (30) 08:48:36 Professional  (8) Male  (10) 00:48:42 00:01:57 04:25:59 00:01:35 03:30:20
11 Luke GOARD (607) 08:49:13 Ages 35 - 39  (1) Male  (11) 00:54:32 00:02:15 04:40:16 00:01:45 03:10:22
12 Brad WALL (244) 08:51:26 Ages 25 - 29  (2) Male  (12) 00:52:15 00:02:23 04:42:30 00:01:43 03:12:33
13 Guy CRAWFORD (17) 08:51:49 Professional  (9) Male  (13) 00:46:58 00:02:04 04:27:44 00:02:01 03:33:00
14 Lars Dyrholm HANSEN (355) 08:52:21 Ages 30 - 34  (2) Male  (14) 00:57:01 00:02:22 04:40:19 00:01:46 03:10:50
15 Blake KAPPLER (376) 08:54:35 Ages 30 - 34  (3) Male  (15) 00:49:54 00:02:27 04:47:24 00:01:35 03:13:13
16 Jan HENNINGSEN (617) 08:56:07 Ages 35 - 39  (2) Male  (16) 00:54:44 00:02:35 04:40:36 00:02:03 03:16:07
18 James OGILVIE (424) 08:57:01 Ages 30 - 34  (4) Male  (17) 01:01:12 00:04:15 04:30:03 00:02:39 03:18:50
19 Markus THOMSCHKE (10) 08:57:46 Professional  (10) Male  (18) 00:50:27 00:02:09 04:24:05 00:01:59 03:39:05
20 Darren JENKINS (21) 08:58:35 Professional  (11) Male  (19) 01:06:40 00:02:11 04:41:41 00:02:00 03:06:01
21 Shanon STALLARD (27) 08:59:27 Professional  (12) Male  (20) 00:55:33 00:02:03 04:52:00 00:01:44 03:08:04

The AG did well but was hardly a bit behind the overall winner. In that top 20 in 2014 it is mainly pros with a few very good AG. 

There are pros who are on the way down like in any sport. They will eventually self select out and AG will eventually become pros. There will always be some people who are faster AG and slower pros. Don't think it reduces any persons experience of the sport.

Think it is fine the way it is and for us AG doing our thing I quite like seeing fast AG, fast pros competing with each other.

 

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This old chestnut. Next we will be doing the annual "Draftfest" thread. 

If the situation exists that fast age groupers can get a pro license and take advantage of saving some money on entry fees, more power to them. Most people who enter the pro category try to do their ego some justice during the race. The few who don't will always get criticised by age groupers. It's been happening since the sport began. There's really nothing that can be done to stamp it out, unless you hold a witch hunt led by Peter and Ruley.

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1 hour ago, Oompa Loompa said:

ok.... 45 is too young, dont want to upset anyone....so make the masters senior card only.... so over 50 or whatever the age is.... lol

 

ha ha it's OK i'm not offended

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More money in the pro prize purse will improve the quality of the pro field as more AG give up day jobs to give it a go. Don't think it is a problem having some AG who are good enough to go pro but don't and a few Pros who for race entry economy or living the dream are getting beaten by those AG.

It would be good if pro fields were as deep as possible bringing more interest and sponsorship to the pro race. AG is the focus for WTC and they really pay for the sport along with product sponsors, with the pro race event promotion material (i hour TV packages).

Having an open amateur category won't change much, a few under 50's will win an AG category, all the same people will get kona slots.

WTC built business through AG focussed IM and 70.3 races. Maybe they could do more for the pros and try to make a product to sell for pay tv, there is so much rubbish there surely a decent series of two IM plus 70.3 over the year culminating in the kona WC round could sell. But it could work against the AG business model.

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unless you hold a witch hunt led by Peter and Ruley.

 

This is what this forum needs :lol:

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