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How important is the destination in doing a race for you

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30 minutes ago, surfer101 said:

If there's an active fee Im not going. Ive¬†decided not to pay that ever again & will mean less races for me but I dont care ūüė§

yes, but someone spent $10k on a bike so therefore the active fee is ok. lol.

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I am at a stage and have been for the last 10 Year’s where I do 2 races a year 1) Nepean, 2) Port Macquarie Ironman Australia.

if I am to do a 3rd it will be Ironman distance. And that distance will only be an Ironman branded race. I am loyal to they brand. Likewise when I ski I am also loyal to a brand....ie: I will only ski at Vail owned resorts.

 

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8 hours ago, surfer101 said:

If there's an active fee Im not going. Ive¬†decided not to pay that ever again & will mean less races for me but I dont care ūüė§

You can scratch Tenby LCW off the list then.  Next year's cost is £199 (early bird) plus Active fee. My total was £212.xx

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9 hours ago, surfer101 said:

If there's an active fee Im not going. Ive¬†decided not to pay that ever again & will mean less races for me but I dont care ūüė§

I get where u are coming from but you are pretty much eliminating every race , most use active (or some Buisness like active), some don’t tell you and it’s just included in the entry with all the other costs

 (not sure why IM doesn’t do this and then now one would be complaining about it ,eg if the entry is $900 and active is 90 then just charge $990) 

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14 hours ago, Paul Every said:

You'll probably get more suitable and useful answers if you gave a brief of what you planning.

Distances, race format, minimum viable competitor numbers, etc. Until then, we are all guessing as to what you really need.

You say it will be hard, but also possibly fast (ie flat). So what makes it hard? Does this means it is longer than IM?

Is it important that it be flat? Does it all have to be on road?

Are you looking to attract international competitors?

How far people will travel to race depends on any number of things. Generally, the longer the race, the more unusual the race experience or the more prestigious the race, the further people will be prepared to travel.

Some races can incorporate a family holiday, others definitely not. eg IM vs Ultraman.

The first thing you need is a firm idea of what your race entails, how it is differentiated from other events that are effectively your competition, who is your market and how are you going to attract them. Until you have identified those factors, planning a race is difficult.

And until we know at least the first, we're limited in providing useful feedback.

I’d love to give you more info paul , but at this point I’m just doing the ground work for some other  interested parties keen to put on a new event in OZ

so I’m not in a postion to say anything official 

Things are possibly looking like this though 

It will be longer than IM

It will be branded 

the brand has lots of history 

it will be held in 2019

im trying to find a good fast flat swim  near a suitable town 

the Bike will be not be flat  , but needs to be held in quiet open roads and be as safe as possible 

it does have a cap on numbers and those numbers Are very low

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Surprise surprise, cost is key to me (of everything).  Gotta be a drive away for me, even if a long one.

The big question is what sort of numbers do you consider a success?  How long's Gundy been going, 25 odd years and what's it pull, 300 - 400??  HB100 has a few years now and it's got similar numbers to that I think.  But, aren't they club run events and how much are the clubs making out of them, if anything?  I'm guessing this person wants to make a profit, which is perfectly acceptable.

Longer than IM, so I'm guessing the target will be the serious insects?  When stuff gets long it seems hard for some to look at something that doesn't come with the IM tat option......... like it's some sort of validation that you've done something with a branding.  Quite frankly if it's longer than IM, it will only have a small market, but I would guess that that market would travel to where ever to do something like that so maybe the destination is a little less important as far as travel, but maybe important as far as course and stay.  I mean, you wouldn't want 10 laps on the bike or run would you.

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3 hours ago, FatPom said:

You can scratch Tenby LCW off the list then.  Next year's cost is £199 (early bird) plus Active fee. My total was £212.xx

Yeah I know .... ūüėě

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Went to Roth this year - because of destination and iconic event...and was good as it is in Germany -- so my sister and youngest son (and of course hubby) came.

Thinking of going back to Busso end of 2018 -( I've heard through 2 sources that it will be on ) as our youngest son (15 yrs) said he would only ever go there as a destination - triathlon /holiday --and wasn't interested in coming with us any where else -- so would probably the last time he does 

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6 hours ago, ironpo said:

I’d love to give you more info paul , but at this point I’m just doing the ground work for some other  interested parties keen to put on a new event in OZ

so I’m not in a postion to say anything official 

Things are possibly looking like this though 

It will be longer than IM

It will be branded 

the brand has lots of history 

it will be held in 2019

im trying to find a good fast flat swim  near a suitable town 

the Bike will be not be flat  , but needs to be held in quiet open roads and be as safe as possible 

it does have a cap on numbers and those numbers Are very low

That's enough info.

Ignore what everyone here says about what does/doesn't get them to a race. It's not relevant. They aren't your market. Never have raced beyond IM and unlikely ever will.

The people who want to do this type of race will travel for it. The challenge for you (and your friends) is to make it the race that people will travel for.

That will largely depend on the course.

You may need to make the race attractive to overseas competitors to make it viable, at least initially. We don't have a large tri market in Aust and triathletes are conservative in regard to race selection and many will be "I'll see how the first year goes". We saw that with AAA.

To attract internationals, make it ultra scenic and quintessentially Australian. Show them what they can't see at home.

Offer something unique or at least unusual with the course. Something that captures the imagination. Significiant start point, finish point, landmarks en route, preferably all of above. You'll know when you're on a good idea when the concept of the race sounds interesting to non-athletes.

How many times has the ocean swim at Lorne been canceled? Is the bay satisfactorily protected to all but guarantee the swim? If so think Great Ocean Road/Otways/Great Ocean Walk and you'll have one of the most stunning races imaginable. That area has been utilised for swimming, cycling and running but not tri.

Falls Creek and your backyard are hard to beat.

Obviously either UM or Challenge. If the latter, something like 5/200/50 isn't going to work unless it is markedly different in terrain/difficulty/something else to set it apart from IM, otherwise people will say "might as well just do IM" and stay loyal to the brand.

Point-to-point works well as a concept because it is about going somewhere, other than just a finishline, although it's logistically harder for a tri. Most of the great running races of any distance are point-to-point. City to Surf, Bay to Breakers, Boston, London, NYC marathons, Six Foot, Comrades, Western States, Spartathlon. There's a story to most of them, even it that story is just in the idea of the race. Otillo and NZ's Coast to Coast are multisport examples.

Large loops can also work if they are defined. eg. UM as a circuit of Kona.  

Consider Friday if traffic is better. People are going to take two weekdays off work for a big race anyway.

Edited by Paul Every
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6 hours ago, ironpo said:

I’d love to give you more info paul , but at this point I’m just doing the ground work for some other  interested parties keen to put on a new event in OZ

so I’m not in a postion to say anything official 

Things are possibly looking like this though 

It will be longer than IM

It will be branded 

the brand has lots of history 

it will be held in 2019

im trying to find a good fast flat swim  near a suitable town 

the Bike will be not be flat  , but needs to be held in quiet open roads and be as safe as possible 

it does have a cap on numbers and those numbers Are very low

North Pine Dam in Brisbane sounds the go for you then. Two years should be a reasonable time to get approvals through SEQ Water to use the dam. Large flat open area for T1 (and T2 if you want). Ride from there straight out to Dayboro, then over Mt Mee and a plethora or good rural roads. The Dam is 25km from the Brisbane CBD.

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I like weekend away events.  I'm even going to one only 90 minutes from my house next weekend.  family trip.  Weekend away.

Maybe it's because I'm older, I want to get out and about more.

I won't be doing IP's event.  Longer than a half is too long these daze

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As per Paul's comments. This is why i have done more MTB marathon/100km events than long tri's over the last 5 years.

IM distance means chasing a time and i'm not getting quicker due to age/injury, so it has to be location/challenge which is what allot of the MTB races offer. eg two weekends ago at Highland Fling was the longest one day MTB i have ever done distance wise and time wise.

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2 hours ago, Paul Every said:

That's enough info.

Ignore what everyone here says about what does/doesn't get them to a race. It's not relevant. They aren't your market. Never have raced beyond IM and unlikely ever will.

The people who want to do this type of race will travel for it. The challenge for you (and your friends) is to make it the race that people will travel for.

That will largely depend on the course.

You may need to make the race attractive to overseas competitors to make it viable, at least initially. We don't have a large tri market in Aust and triathletes are conservative in regard to race selection and many will be "I'll see how the first year goes". We saw that with AAA.

To attract internationals, make it ultra scenic and quintessentially Australian. Show them what they can't see at home.

Offer something unique or at least unusual with the course. Something that captures the imagination. Significiant start point, finish point, landmarks en route, preferably all of above. You'll know when you're on a good idea when the concept of the race sounds interesting to non-athletes.

How many times has the ocean swim at Lorne been canceled? Is the bay satisfactorily protected to all but guarantee the swim? If so think Great Ocean Road/Otways/Great Ocean Walk and you'll have one of the most stunning races imaginable. That area has been utilised for swimming, cycling and running but not tri.

Falls Creek and your backyard are hard to beat.

Obviously either UM or Challenge. If the latter, something like 5/200/50 isn't going to work unless it is markedly different in terrain/difficulty/something else to set it apart from IM, otherwise people will say "might as well just do IM" and stay loyal to the brand.

Point-to-point works well as a concept because it is about going somewhere, other than just a finishline, although it's logistically harder for a tri. Most of the great running races of any distance are point-to-point. City to Surf, Bay to Breakers, Boston, London, NYC marathons, Six Foot, Comrades, Western States, Spartathlon. There's a story to most of them, even it that story is just in the idea of the race. Otillo and NZ's Coast to Coast are multisport examples.

Large loops can also work if they are defined. eg. UM as a circuit of Kona.  

Consider Friday if traffic is better. People are going to take two weekdays off work for a big race anyway.

Thanks PE

rezlly appreciate your input 

yes going for a great scenic course not too far from home (at this stage is one option) 

i have also been thinking that the “event “ should be enough to draw the right athletes ,from all around ,  even if it’s not at a latte slipping  town 

also are looking at as many point to point options also I personally love point to point and it creates a real difference to a race 

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I agree with Paul, once you are talking beyond Iron distance you are talking to a group more likely to be adventurous on destination.

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10 hours ago, ironpo said:

I’d love to give you more info paul , but at this point I’m just doing the ground work for some other  interested parties keen to put on a new event in OZ

so I’m not in a postion to say anything official 

Things are possibly looking like this though 

It will be longer than IM

It will be branded 

the brand has lots of history 

it will be held in 2019

im trying to find a good fast flat swim  near a suitable town 

the Bike will be not be flat  , but needs to be held in quiet open roads and be as safe as possible 

it does have a cap on numbers and those numbers Are very low

Jindabyne, Australia Day weekend

Albury, anytime in November

 Bundaberg, May

lakes Entrance , May or October. 

Im sure there's more places. 

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16 hours ago, Peter said:

I like weekend away events.  I'm even going to one only 90 minutes from my house next weekend.  family trip.  Weekend away.

Maybe it's because I'm older, I want to get out and about more.

I won't be doing IP's event.  Longer than a half is too long these daze

I like events that are 3 or flights away from home. I love eating airline food & watching Fast & Furious movies. 

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On 20/11/2017 at 6:12 PM, Peter said:

 

I won't be doing IP's event.  Longer than a half is too long these daze

You’ll be right to do one of the US IM that B@W does 

they are all on short , down hill draft  feasts 

more like a half ironman than a full

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3 hours ago, ironpo said:

You’ll be right to do one of the US IM that B@W does 

they are all on short , down hill draft  feasts 

more like a half ironman than a full

& well organized not like the cluster fk that is ultraman 

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5 hours ago, Bored@work said:

& well organized not like the cluster fk that is ultraman 

Who'd bother doing Ultraman anyway :wallbash:

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^^^^ exactly the same as this guy.  

Mention Busso & the wife says no. 

Having said I have just flown into Perth to watch Cam go sub 4hrs on the bike & smash a sub8 hr time

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1 hour ago, AP said:

Who'd bother doing Ultraman anyway :wallbash:

Probably a comparable physical challenge to someone in their mid 30s as to what IM is to someone twice that age. :P

But of course, IM is so often held up as the ultimate achievement in endurance sports. That has been marketed for over 30 years to the point that some triathletes seem confronted that there may be other events that are comparably or, shock horror!, even more worthwhile or rewarding.

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Been wondering why an Xtri event doesn't get up here soon - I see they're planning one in Patagonia which would be on top of the others and may well get me swimming again....

http://xtriworldtour.com/

Given the choice of Aus or NZ I'd think that NZ would offer a greater number of choices in the South Island and would also appeal to those from o/s.  As Paul said, I don't think the majority of IM athletes are your target market.

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