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Smart turbo/ Zwift and the clueless

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This is a side story to how how I'm planning next year, which I will post about elsewhere. Long story short, I have my 'do it all' bike in Somerset for winter gruelling rides ( as the mags would say).  At home in Winchester, my basic plan is to keep the Bianchi and P3 only. This means more of an indoor campaign in winter, both to avoid endless bike cleaning and a desire to be home more and hit some numbers in a structured way.

So, after watching a couple of Shane Miller's excellent vids and chatting with a local TT stud who has one, I'm pretty set on getting an Elite Direto trainer. Bearing in mind I ride with zero gadgets ( and I mean zero), what do I need to get funky withZwift, TR and the like, and most importantly, how can I make everything private and avoid all the social media BS that might come with a subscription ( to anything) ?

Here's what I have at home right now:

A dumb tv with a spare HDMI if I unplug the Firestick.

An Amazon Firestick.

2014 iPad mini(  32gb)

2012 MacBook Pro running Sierra, 4gb ram.

Dell laptop with Windows 10 which I'd prefer to leave alone if possible.

a very dumb smart phone but about to get a smick new one with new job ( don't know which one yet)

5 Sufferfest films bought outright.

I have no desire to to get a Garmin type device at this stage and was hoping to capture data on one of the above devices, is that possible?

hmm, that wasn't short at all :lol:

Edited by FatPom

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i just turned on my ipad bluetooth, downloaded zwift, and it hooked up to the trainer and it worked.  it then sends it to my garmin???????????  have a kurt kinetic fluid with an aftermarket kinetic add on to make it smart 

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You just need to buy the trainer and sign up to Zwift and you will be functional with any of those devices.

You don't have to pair Zwift to Strava or anything like that. You can even delete your rides when you finish rather than have them saved within the app.

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Brilliant, thanks all :)  I have to say big props to GPLama, his videos are bloody great!

And just as I have decided to keep the Bianchi, I come across this ad, very good price in the U.K.  for that bike, especially as the 2018 version comes with boat anchor Askiums and would 'do it all' in Winchester with some temp guards.  Decisions decisions.

https://www.wheelbase.co.uk/product/bikes-frames/cervelo-c3-ultegra-disc-blackwhite-2017-cer16_c3_ultdisc/

 

 

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Excuse me for a slight thread hijack.

I have a kurt kinetic road machine (plus the bike and laptop).  For me to setup Zwift I need an Ant+ stick and a garmin speed and cadence sensor - at least that is all I think I need?  Is there any place in Australia worth purchasing this equipment or is Amazon the go to?

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That'll get you up and running using zPower. Zwift's answer to Virtual Power, where it'll do an ok-ish job of calculating power from the speed curve of the KK Road Machine. 

If you're buying new, get sensors that are dual ANT+/Bluetooth. They'll come in handy if you want to connect to Bluetooth only head units (iPhone, iPad, etc).

 

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21 hours ago, gerg said:

Excuse me for a slight thread hijack.

I have a kurt kinetic road machine (plus the bike and laptop).  For me to setup Zwift I need an Ant+ stick and a garmin speed and cadence sensor - at least that is all I think I need?  Is there any place in Australia worth purchasing this equipment or is Amazon the go to?

i asked on here n you can do that... however i thought it was just easier to buy the "inride" and bluetooth that to the app on my ipad so thats what i did. looked on bike exchange then bought one of a us amazon site. cant remember what it was though.  i was going to ring the australian supplier  (  http://www.velovita.com.au/ ) but just amazoned it.    if you wait, amazon might be live in australia....though wether they have an inride who knows.  $49us in the recommended price, I had it landed to my door for $60aud.

 

the inride just taps into the hole in the stainless steel wheel thing on the kinetic fluid thing that your rear wheel sits on and you just stick the the little black box on to pick up the thing in the hole as it spins by, east as.

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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OK, semi successful.

Managed to get it connected up. Downloaded Zwift to the MacBook Pro and attempted to pair via bluetooth, no dice, Zwift just hung at 'Searching'.

Downloaded Zwift app to the iPad and connected via BT with zero issues.    Haven't done anything with my phone yet (really old Android).

Did my first couple of 5 min sessions on Zwift, just clicked 'Join Ride' and up I popped. Had no idea what I was doing.  Tried to get my username to FatPom but ended up with I.FatPom . The 7 Day 'Free Trial' seems a bit of a misnomer,  because it seems that it only gives you 25kms worth?

I don't have a PM so not sure if I need any kind of calibration or ramp down?  I did download the My ETraining Elite app but it's fairly crap.  I got a voucher that is supposed to give a year's free membership, it recognised the voucher but still says I have to buy modules.  I did get all my parameters in there though.

Talking of which, GPLama mentions inputting '173' as a wheel size but I'm not sure where to put this.  I've done nothing like in Zwift and did enter it in My e Training but I don't think it did anything.

All I did was enter my age, weight and height into Zwift and started pedalling.

Set up is Flipper approvedB)

59fa17838fabf_2017-11-0116_56_56.jpg.ff450cef1cb41220acadd563c5a8b062.jpg

Edited by FatPom
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1 hour ago, FatPom said:

OK, semi successful.

Managed to get it connected up. Downloaded Zwift to the MacBook Pro and attempted to pair via bluetooth, no dice, Zwift just hung at 'Searching'.

Downloaded Zwift app to the iPad and connected via BT with zero issues.    Haven't done anything with my phone yet (really old Android).

Did my first couple of 5 min sessions on Zwift, just clicked 'Join Ride' and up I popped. Had no idea what I was doing.  Tried to get my username to FatPom but ended up with I.FatPom . The 7 Day 'Free Trial' seems a bit of a misnomer,  because it seems that it only gives you 25kms worth?

I don't have a PM so not sure if I need any kind of calibration or ramp down?  I did download the My ETraining Elite app but it's fairly crap.  I got a voucher that is supposed to give a year's free membership, it recognised the voucher but still says I have to buy modules.  I did get all my parameters in there though.

Talking of which, GPLama mentions inputting '173' as a wheel size but I'm not sure where to put this.  I've done nothing like in Zwift and did enter it in My e Training but I don't think it did anything.

All I did was enter my age, weight and height into Zwift and started pedalling.

Set up is Flipper approvedB)

59fa17838fabf_2017-11-0116_56_56.jpg.ff450cef1cb41220acadd563c5a8b062.jpg

It's direct drive so you shouldn't need to do any kind of calibration. It has it's own built in power meter and that's what Zwift will use. Also no need to enter a wheel size 'cos you're not using the wheel.

If you're looking for structured stuff then Zwift has it but you might be more interested in TrainerRoad which does have a free trial. And yes you are limited to 25k for Zwift. 

Enjoy! I love the ease of my turbo. Make sure you have enough fans though. I have three. This is not enough.

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Direct drive still needs calibration/spindows, although not every ride. Some only every month or so. *If you're using the power reported from the trainer. If you're using a power meter on the bike, no need to worry.

173mm is the flywheel size you'd enter into a Garmin, Wahoo, or other head unit if you're recording indoor workouts that way. Zwift, MyETraining, etc, use the defaults. (Zwift doesn't use trainer speed at all, it's all power).

 

 

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5 minutes ago, monkie said:

It's direct drive so you shouldn't need to do any kind of calibration. It has it's own built in power meter and that's what Zwift will use. Also no need to enter a wheel size 'cos you're not using the wheel.

If you're looking for structured stuff then Zwift has it but you might be more interested in TrainerRoad which does have a free trial. And yes you are limited to 25k for Zwift. 

Enjoy! I love the ease of my turbo. Make sure you have enough fans though. I have three. This is not enough.

Cheers Monkie.  I've been using turbos for years, so I'm ok fan wise . (got a veritable wind tunnel of a fan :) )

Re the sizing, I was picking up on something Shane said. I think its to do with the 'effective' roller width or something because Elite does things differently. He definitely mentions it in his Direto review.

haha must've been typing at the same time as Shane's reply.

Cheers mate :)

Edited by FatPom

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23 hours ago, FatPom said:

Cheers Monkie.  I've been using turbos for years, so I'm ok fan wise . (got a veritable wind tunnel of a fan :) )

Re the sizing, I was picking up on something Shane said. I think its to do with the 'effective' roller width or something because Elite does things differently. He definitely mentions it in his Direto review.

haha must've been typing at the same time as Shane's reply.

Cheers mate :)

Ah, my bad didn't realise it was flywheel they were talking about! :)

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Re calibration, (I hope Shane is reading this) watching the video here, when I connect to my MacBook via Ant+, I follow the instructions in the video but I don'y get the spanner icon, just the 'unpair' window., and get the same result via BT on the iPad  I wonder if these feature is not supported for my trainer?

 

 

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It can take a few sessions for Zwift to recognise there's a compatible trainer connected with 'spindown' features. It also requires pairing over FE-C. But... it also seems that feature / code is under cooked for some trainers. Use the trainer manufacturer app for calibration if that one isn't playing ball.

 

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1 minute ago, gplama said:

It can take a few sessions for Zwift to recognise there's a compatible trainer connected with 'spindown' features. It also requires pairing over FE-C. But... it also seems that feature / code is under cooked for some trainers. Use the trainer manufacturer app for calibration if that one isn't playing ball.

 

Thanks Shane. I am connecting via FEC . (which is ANT+ right?) as I bought a dongle for the MacBook. The dongle is brilliant,  it even reaches the distance from bike to tv, so I can plug the Mac into my tv, sweet :)

I tried using the Elite app but got frustrated, went through all the rego stuff, then entered my code for the free 12mths  subscription, it recognises the code but doesn't allow me to open the modules as it say i need to pay. Everything seems pretty locked down in that. :(

Sidenote:  I think I have a humming Direto model.  I hear the step change motor when switching on and the generally it's quite but when I change gear I get a kind 'pulse humming' for a couple of minutes, then it goes quiet again. Seems quite random but doesn't really bother me.

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Arrrh.. yes. The Direto 'spindown' is a little different to the standard FE-C spindown (Yep, that's ANT+). Calibration Procedure Of The Internal Power Sensor On Drivo-Direto-Kura -> https://goo.gl/126c6g

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19 minutes ago, gplama said:

Arrrh.. yes. The Direto 'spindown' is a little different to the standard FE-C spindown (Yep, that's ANT+). Calibration Procedure Of The Internal Power Sensor On Drivo-Direto-Kura -> https://goo.gl/126c6g

Good stuff, thanks mate. The Elite seems to work better on my Macbook.  Weird thing is, when I type' 173' into the circumference setting it displays a value of '14':huh:

Anyway, did the test twice and got a calibration value of '6558' or something like that. It all sounds a bit dodgy :wink3:

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The wheel circumference 173 is only for pairing to third party head units such as Garmin. The MyETraining stuff defaults to 2070 (iirc?) and is correct within their software. 

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16 minutes ago, gplama said:

The wheel circumference 173 is only for pairing to third party head units such as Garmin. The MyETraining stuff defaults to 2070 (iirc?) and is correct within their software. 

aha, better have another test then, hang on:lol:

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uggh, finally got there!  Tried the Elite app on my Macbook and it flat out refused to find the trainer but also had the added 'bonus' of somehow conflicting with Zwift and stopping that from finding the Direto either.  Removed the Elite App and Zwift seems to back to normal.

I re-loaded the Elite app to my iPad and again, it recognised me as a member but still thinks I need to pay for modules, but it did find the trainer this time via BT, so I did the test, all good.

Back on Zwift via MacBook plugged into the tv and I found that I was getting quite random changes in resistance on the London Flat Loop. Unplugged the laptop from the tv and ran it next to the bike and absolutely no problems.  So I reckon I didn't try it in the tv for long enough yesterday and I've found limit of workable Ant+ range as my trainer is approx 2.5-3mtrs from the tv.

I think for now, my best option is MacBook on a music stand controlled by smartphone on the stem :)

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Note.

I believe this is the case for bluetooth (but IS the case for ant+) -Your can only have one application accessing the comms device at a time, So if you did want say, zwift and trainer road both running at the same time, and accessing you datastreams, you would need two comms devices.

(Ie. for my pc, I have two ant+ sticks, one for zwift, one for sufferfest OR trainerroad OR Garmin Connect, and of those 3 appilcaitions, only one can run at a time, or there is a device conflict and  some won't work properly.)

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OK, so here's my next question.  I got my Android phone from work, downloaded Zwift app, connected the ph to my wifi network and logged in fired up Zwift on my Mac using Ant+.  Problem is the phone doesn't talk to the Macbook. It's like they are running different sessions alltogether (incidentally, I can't see how to actually 'ride' using just the phone app, all I see is a bunch of settings and the London map and 'Riders nearby'.

 

I'm assuming this combo can't be done?  Havent tried the iPad and phone yet, will do that tomorrow.

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2 hours ago, FatPom said:

OK, so here's my next question.  I got my Android phone from work, downloaded Zwift app, connected the ph to my wifi network and logged in fired up Zwift on my Mac using Ant+.  Problem is the phone doesn't talk to the Macbook. It's like they are running different sessions alltogether (incidentally, I can't see how to actually 'ride' using just the phone app, all I see is a bunch of settings and the London map and 'Riders nearby'.

 

I'm assuming this combo can't be done?  Havent tried the iPad and phone yet, will do that tomorrow.

 

When I open my zwift android app it doesnt give me anything at all in terms of my current ride etc it just gives me how many riders are around and upcoming events etc.. Not sure what is wrong with it..

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7 minutes ago, pieman said:

 

When I open my zwift android app it doesnt give me anything at all in terms of my current ride etc it just gives me how many riders are around and upcoming events etc.. Not sure what is wrong with it..

yeah that's what I get and no ability to use it as a controller for the laptop.

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The Android app is a companion app ONLY, it does not allow you to ride. 

They are working on bringing out a riding app for android later, but it hasn't been released yet.

For the companion app to work properly, it must be connected to the same network as the computer that is is running zwift. (ie, if on wifi, the then wifi cannot be in guest mode)

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7 hours ago, Cape_Horn said:

The Android app is a companion app ONLY, it does not allow you to ride. 

They are working on bringing out a riding app for android later, but it hasn't been released yet.

For the companion app to work properly, it must be connected to the same network as the computer that is is running zwift. (ie, if on wifi, the then wifi cannot be in guest mode)

Yep,  I get that bit, and as I said, the phone was connected to the same wifi as the Mac but they still don't see each other :(

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17 hours ago, FatPom said:

Yep,  I get that bit, and as I said, the phone was connected to the same wifi as the Mac but they still don't see each other :(

That is why I mentioned the term guest.

Unfortunately, I cannot see into your network, so I don't know your current setup, some networks are setup so that while you can connect many devices, the devices can only talk with the outside world, not with each other. This will break the zwift communication between devices.

May I ask, what do you expect the android device to do, you said that it shows the map and lists riders nearby. Being that I cannot see what you are seeing, I have a feeling that it might be working as designed, and may be connected. Once you are riding (all controlled from the computer) The companion app will show riders nearby (which it won't do if you are not connected) - It has a screen to show current power/cadence/HR etc. (assuming you have cadence and HR connected to your computer), there is a screen for changing direction, sending ride-ons, in game chat, etc. 

It does not have the ability to be used as a game display. (I am trying to remember if it can be used to stop a ride, to save and upload a ride, I will have to test it tonight, now that my phone is back and working)

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Yeah although Im not on Zwift I thought I had in my head that it was like a reflection of real life, computer was for work stuff, phone was for social stuff :lol:

 

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8 hours ago, Cape_Horn said:

That is why I mentioned the term guest.

Unfortunately, I cannot see into your network, so I don't know your current setup, some networks are setup so that while you can connect many devices, the devices can only talk with the outside world, not with each other. This will break the zwift communication between devices.

May I ask, what do you expect the android device to do, you said that it shows the map and lists riders nearby. Being that I cannot see what you are seeing, I have a feeling that it might be working as designed, and may be connected. Once you are riding (all controlled from the computer) The companion app will show riders nearby (which it won't do if you are not connected) - It has a screen to show current power/cadence/HR etc. (assuming you have cadence and HR connected to your computer), there is a screen for changing direction, sending ride-ons, in game chat, etc. 

It does not have the ability to be used as a game display. (I am trying to remember if it can be used to stop a ride, to save and upload a ride, I will have to test it tonight, now that my phone is back and working)

Cheers mate. Yeah both devices connected ok. I was hoping to use the mobile app as a controller for the display on the Mac. Change direction, give thumbs up, that kind of thing. Maybe my assumption is wrong?

 

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1 hour ago, FatPom said:

Cheers mate. Yeah both devices connected ok. I was hoping to use the mobile app as a controller for the display on the Mac. Change direction, give thumbs up, that kind of thing. Maybe my assumption is wrong?

 

You need to check whether the devices can communicate with each other. From the Android go to settings -> WiFi and then click on the connected network which will give you the IP address. Then from the mac open terminal (press command + space and type "terminal") and then run "ping 10.0.0.10" and substitute the IP address of the android for my 10.0.0.10. If you get a "Reply from" then they are talking... 

We can then try and diagnose further...

 

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13 hours ago, FatPom said:

Cheers mate. Yeah both devices connected ok. I was hoping to use the mobile app as a controller for the display on the Mac. Change direction, give thumbs up, that kind of thing. Maybe my assumption is wrong?

 

If you can see the map (the actual map, with your position) it is connected properly.

There is another page that has a button to u-turn, and I believe that page then displays turn buttons when you come up to a turn.

There used to be another page for the different emotes, and for giving kudos, I think it may have been integrated into the messaging page.

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I uninstalled and reinstalled my android app and as I was riding along today I opened it and went straight to a map with my power etc on it. down the bottom it had uturn button, screenshots etc but I couldnt find a thumbs up ride on button...

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success! Seems to be working fine now. The Android app works when I'm connected to the iPad via BT and the MacBook via FEC.  I can make turns, wave and drop 'Ride ons' but still can't u-turn and dont seem to be able to select a ride/route or start/end ride via the app. Should I be able to?

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You should be able to uturn... - And I would expect the icon to change to left/straight/right when you get to a turn area. But due to the second bit, maybe they removed it? (Except I thought I saw the uturn button last week)

Initial route setting would be via the login screen, so would not be something in the companion app.

Same with the start/stop - You start by selecting route before you start, then jump on the bike, and you don't move until you pedal, stopping, well, same again, you stop when you get off :D at which point - why have it on the app, when you have the computer.

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Cheers Cape Horn.  I do get the U-turn icon but it doesn't do anything.  The the turn icon works exactly as you describe. Change view works, wave etc. Just the Uturn seems redundant. At least I know what the app does and doesn't do now, thanks :)

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Press and hold U turn for it to activate, it's not a standard button. Or if you're on Richmond, there is no U-Turn. (Unless you pick up your bike and face the other way in your pain cave) :)

 

 

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Just now, Suburban Kid said:

If i have an old trainer, but a speed and cadence sensor on my bike will zwift work?

Yes....ish. You might beed a few things. (wowa, that's a big thumbnail) 

 

 

 

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On 07/11/2017 at 6:54 AM, Cape_Horn said:

The Android app is a companion app ONLY, it does not allow you to ride. 

They are working on bringing out a riding app for android later, but it hasn't been released yet.

For the companion app to work properly, it must be connected to the same network as the computer that is is running zwift. (ie, if on wifi, the then wifi cannot be in guest mode)

This. 

I have both running through the same WiFi. 

All good. 

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40 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

anyone get the price jack email for new zwifters from today

Yeah I saw the thing on Faceache this arvo. 

How much will it cost a month now? 

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