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If you're a rep for a pharmaceutical company, or your wife is a doctor, are you game to visit an alternative health practitioner, or are you game to take nutritional supplements :huh:  

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Plenty of doctors (MBBS ones) will agree that alternative therapies can be useful.

A good conversation starter with some is to ask why they think some patients baulk at not being bulk billed, but are happy to fork over plenty of $$$ for homeopathy or cupping...

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Ideally I like my therapy to be evidence-based, but sometimes I get desperate and will give anything a try.  Not homeopathy or cupping, obviously, what a crock

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Has yoyo given up on the veterinary strength antibiotics and gone to your chinese herbalist to get rid of his lingering rash...?

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I've tried many alternative therapies (chiro, acupuncture, natural supplements, clinical psychologist....) with mixed results.

What I find more interesting is instances of 'mainstream medicine' being proven wrong, and/or lazy - often by other mainstream medical practitioners....or by the patient themselves.

I'm reaching the conclusion that by doing your own research and experimenting with things that have worked for others, you can find the path that works for you.  But it takes patience, and a willingness to give up on a silver bullet quick fix.

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I'm a pharma rep and work in Type 2 Diabetes space. 

I don't take supplements just get what I need from good food. I can see the merit in some alternative therapies, I still laugh at the nutters who tell me they can reverse Type 2 Diabetes , science proves you can't 

Edited by bengillespie78

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15 minutes ago, bengillespie78 said:

I'm a pharma rep and work in Type 2 Diabetes space. 

I don't take supplements just get what I need from good food. I can see the merit in some alternative therapies, I still laugh at the nutters who tell me they can reverse Type 2 Diabetes , science proves you can't 

 

Damn experts with their new studies constantly contradicting each other and older studies, breaking previous best "gold standard" advice, along with possibly increasing scientific dubiousness through  exaggeration and even outright cheating  increases  :)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/03/15/type-2-diabetes-can-reversed-just-four-months-trial-shows/

As to alternative therapies, I reckon they're mostly snake oil, harmless except for cost, and for believers placebo - which in itself might be worth it, except if you actually have a condition for which placebo doesn't work e.g. cancer. The one aspect I give credence to in the whole alternative medicine/therapies field is a much greater connection to well-being, perhaps mindfulness. Doctors often worst examples, although perhaps they would say out of necessity.

This is well worth a read, Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs and health, life extension,  and immortality. Intelligent rational scientists maybe  shouldn't be regarded as paragons:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/04/03/silicon-valleys-quest-to-live-forever

90 tablets *a day*. Young blood transfusions.  Etc. But no doubt the basis of ageing will be determined and understood at some point, along with attempts to stop or reverse it.

One recent study showing happiness trumps most other factors.

But who really knows.

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20 minutes ago, longshot said:

 

Damn experts with their new studies constantly contradicting each other and older studies, breaking previous best "gold standard" advice, along with possibly increasing scientific dubiousness through  exaggeration and even outright cheating  increases  :)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/03/15/type-2-diabetes-can-reversed-just-four-months-trial-shows/

All the above article shows is an absence of sugars in the blood not a reversal of Type 2, that's creative licensing. If diet and exercise were so successful I would be out of a job.I don't see people's beta cells(which control insulin production) regenerating, they simply just slowed the escalator they are on to insulin dependence 

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Exercise and diet will never manage it for a majority of the population as the 30-40years of poor decisions, bad habits and weakness run deep.

Beyong just confirmation bias and placebo effect a Confounding factor with the natural therapies would have to be potentially higher self ownership and multifactorial response to their problems.

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I'm open to things but I want to see a good plausible mechanism, some credible science or research and little potential for harm.

If I see The hallmarks of something which is pseudoscience masquerading something as legitimate I turn off to it pretty quickly.

At the moment I'm reading up on sulforaphane. Ive begun to look at some of the little one and two percenters a lot more, the ones that have some legitimatcy behind them and unlikely to be harmful and are not significantly expensive. I wonder how much of these and a good diet, moderate exercise and appropriately challenging mental tasks etc will help in being a highly functional elderly person later in life. IE I want to be caravaning at 90 and maintaining a big vegie patch not in an Aged care facility. I look at people like AP and wonder at 70 how much is good luck, or good genetics or whether it is just 30 years of good management. Either way I don't think it's worth waiting 35 years to be the control group comparison. I'll be looking at the gelatin, glucosamine, fish oil, sulfarophane, nurturing a good gut microbiome and a varied diet full of plenty of variously coloured vegetables. I won't be denying myself the occasional indulgence nor will I restrict myself dogmatically to any one thing as moderation and variety I feel are likely healthier than a single narrow philosophy (as they all seem to have one or two strong points but just as many detrimental points when you look closer). 

Add to this some good weight bearing resistance exercise as I've noticed post 28 that this aspect didn't just maintain itself and that despite the copious durance exercise I had become pretty weak(this had never been a problem mid 20's) despite being very aerobically and sport specifically fit. Some of these I now just see as future proofing and insurance, a couple of hundred dollars a year and a few extra exercises to potentially prolong my years of good function into old age. 

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If you are looking for evidence that a particular treatment, be it from your doctor or an alternative therapy, works the Cochrane web site is very useful.

http://www.cochrane.org/

If you want for evidence for supplements.

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/snake-oil-scientific-evidence-for-nutritional-supplements-vizsweet/

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45 minutes ago, Ruley said:

Add to this some good weight bearing resistance exercise as I've noticed post 28 that this aspect didn't just maintain itself and that despite the copious durance exercise I had become pretty weak(this had never been a problem mid 20's) despite being very aerobically and sport specifically fit. Some of these I now just see as future proofing and insurance, a couple of hundred dollars a year and a few extra exercises to potentially prolong my years of good function into old age. 

This.  As I've said before, triathlon obsession turned me into a pissant. Getting back in the gym has been a Godsend.

Eating the occasional bit of dirt off the MTB seems to be good too.

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Blindly following evidence based medicine is not the panacea most would have.  Cochrane is always a good start but is not perfect.  The recent kerfuffle on hep c treatment being denied "gold standard" status by cochrane would be almost amusing if it weren't so serious - in short to get gold standard you need to have a successful double blind study.  The treatment for hep c is known to save lives.  Doing a double blind study would result in the death of those on the placebo dose.  Ergo the treatment is not gold standard which in some countries may result in reduced funding or not being used as a first option treatment.

Even the people who first developed the concept of evidence based medicine admit now they got it wrong.  They believe the best description for the best outcome would be evidence informed medicine.  This requires a skilled practitioner applying the best research to date combined with their own experiences to get the best outcome.  Sometimes the research may not support the treatment, but this is only because the research has not be done or has been done poorly, not because the treatment protocol is wrong.  

 

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People would be surprised if they knew how little evidence there is behind so much of medical treatment. Throw around words and phrases like 'latest studies show' evidence suggests' and 'science' and it rapidly shuts people down and positions themselves in a position of power. But dig a bit deeper and as the variables are so hard to control with health, the science and evidence is often revealed to be quite flimsy.

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1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

The only product I know that doesn't go off. So it must be good!

I was working on the same principle with rum!

Edited by gregb
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17 hours ago, bengillespie78 said:

All the above article shows is an absence of sugars in the blood not a reversal of Type 2, that's creative licensing. If diet and exercise were so successful I would be out of a job.I don't see people's beta cells(which control insulin production) regenerating, they simply just slowed the escalator they are on to insulin dependence 

You are probably right , 

but if people with type 2 had a healthy diet and excercised then they wouldn't have got type two diabetes in the first place

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22 hours ago, longshot said:

One recent study showing happiness trumps most other factors.

But who really knows.

I really believe that - I'd say managing emotions is a key 

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