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Peter

Dr says Dean Mercer did too much endurance exercise

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9 hours ago, Blacky said:

One person dies in Australia from a heart attack every 26 minutes. It's not just althletes. I have not seen any data to show althletes are dying at a faster rate. 

I think the point is If you are fit and healthy you shouldn't have a heart attack. 

But that's not the case. 

Edited by Peter
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"So you're putting your chips in the  'more exercise is healthier' box. Then how do you explain the proliferation of heart attacks in endurance athletes including Dean Mercer?"

You might need to reread what I wrote. I'm saying that (similar to what Longshot has written above) there are benefits to  more exercise, but that there is also an upper limit. We just don't really know where that is. 

As more people have taken up endurance training then there more people having problems (be that heart attacks or other issues). Endurance training (or exercise generally) cannot reverse damage done, or magically reduce risk of events to zero. There are a lot of people who are fit but unhealthy out there.

That was actually a hypothesis several decades ago (?50/60s). Running a marathon was proposed to be completely protective against heart attacks....that didn't last long. 

Genetics loads the gun. Lifestyle pulls the trigger.
 

 

edit for typo

Edited by garf
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6 hours ago, Oompa Loompa said:

Yes, interesting, I have trained with two of the better old locals at IM and they are very old school in their nutrition and race day feeding.  Watched them say a very well known nutitionslist was clueless at an event a few years ago attended by about 50 people. These two don't seem to have the heart issues - n=2 though. 

Mind you though, sucking on gels, bars and sugars is easy and addictive. 

What do you mean by old school ? Allan's lollies?

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5 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

More likely bananas & anzac biscuits.

Leave the lollies for race day then

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15 minutes ago, ironpo said:

Leave the lollies for race day then

 

That's mid school, not old school. 80's was more bananas, biscuits & vegemite sandwiches.

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50 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

 

That's mid school, not old school. 80's was more bananas, biscuits & vegemite sandwiches.

Yeah when we were doing the bananas and biscuits Ironpo was still in school in short pants :lol:

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Just now, AP said:

Yeah when we were doing the bananas and biscuits Ironpo was still in school in short pants :lol:

im still in short pants and probably should go back to skool

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2 minutes ago, ironpo said:

im still in short pants and probably should go back to skool

Thought it was still a bit cold down there for shorts.

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I wondered ..what about drugs that makes you go faster??  ...that can lead to heart attack in the future!

Not saying that he taken. but would be anyone.

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So we're listening to this guy?

5996c6d67055d6e7be7bf0c7b8320903?width=650

 

Wears his operating-theatre get-up to the airstrip? Wanted to make sure we knew he was important, and rich. 

 

I wonder if he has an IM t-shirt under the gown. :)

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3 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Thought it was still a bit cold down there for shorts.

The older I get the colder it seems to be !!!!

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9 hours ago, Peter said:

I think the point is If you are fit and healthy you shouldn't have a heart attack. 

But that's not the case. 

There is no reversing bad genetics, or a bad diet, there are more variables to this than just exercise. 

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9 hours ago, Peter said:

I think the point is If you are fit and healthy you shouldn't have a heart attack. 

But that's not the case. 

If we all said we were converting to Halal, fat avoiding diets, Niseko might have a heart attack of his own.  

Don't underestimate the impact on stress in heart attacks and strokes

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20 hours ago, Niseko said:

I think this is a bit of an over-simplifation to classify 'exercise' so broadly. 

With the growing number of ultra-endurance athletes suffering from all kinds of heart problems, surely too much of some things (including as Dr Ferrari says, orange juice) is not good for you. 

Despite the call that maxing out the heart rate is not good for you, there seems to be a growing body of evidence that HIIT is 'healthier' or at least 'safer' than endurance. 

Just look at all the deaths and heart problems from triathletes. I could name a dozen off the top of my head and the list seems to be growing. Add in deaths on the bike and you could say Ironman triathlons were a net negative for health. 

Personally I think it's the inflammation from sugars and grains that causes the blocking of arteries that causes the blocked arteries that cause heart attacks and the theory has always been to have lots of carbs to fuel your efforts. 

What do you make of the "fruitarian" guys like Michael Arnstein or Durian Rider?

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After all this discussion is any one of us going to stop doing what we do :huh:

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9 minutes ago, trilobite said:

What do you make of the "fruitarian" guys like Michael Arnstein or Durian Rider?

I'd rather have a heart attack.

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30 minutes ago, AP said:

After all this discussion is any one of us going to stop doing what we do :huh:

Haha. Not likely....

A few might go and have a check up?

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38 minutes ago, AP said:

After all this discussion is any one of us going to stop doing what we do :huh:

I can't even do what we do but I'm gonna keep doing it...

Have had a heart stress test done, after chest pain at a race.

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I think you will all find it simply was clogged arteries and nothing to do with the heart

Get your cholesterol checks done, doesnt matter how fit you are if you liver over produces

cholestrol

 

 

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25 minutes ago, superboy said:

I think you will all find it simply was clogged arteries and nothing to do with the heart

Get your cholesterol checks done, doesnt matter how fit you are if you liver over produces

cholestrol

 

 

I hope you're joking...The 'clogged arteries' at issue are in the heart. While atherosclerosis affects arteries body wide, it is the coronary and cerebral arteries that pose the critical issues in most cases.

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13 hours ago, Peter said:

I think the point is If you are fit and healthy you shouldn't have a heart attack. 

But that's not the case. 

Exactly, and this seems pretty clear now, the 'free pass' to eat whatever we want because we've trained doesn't really exist.

 

its virtually been proven that our understanding of the dietary factors contributing to heart disease has been terribly wrong. Our understanding of the role of cholesterol has also been wrong  and now we are finding out our thoughts on the role of exercises is wrong too. We haven't gotten much right at all! 

I guess the interesting questions now are:

Does exercise help prevent blocked heart arteries at all?

How much exercises is safe before it moves into the negative health effect level? 

 

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I've read somewhere that around 60% of people who have heart attacks have 'normal' cholesterol. A specialist I saw said a similar thing. As time goes on it seems doctors are warming to the idea that cholesterol levels are not necessarily an indicator of heart health. On the other hand they seem to becoming much more concerned with elevated triglyceride levels as a danger sign.

Edited by trinube

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