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I’ve been focusing mainly on 70.3s the last couple of seasons and will do for next season, but for 2018/2019 I’d like to have a crack at qualifying for Kona (inspired by Cranky’s journey J).I have no idea if I’m capable of qualifying and looking at some of the times the top guys in my age group are putting out, is quite intimidating, low 9s. I can’t really see me achieving times like that. Having a look at what times guys that are a similar 70.3 pace to me are getting in the full and based on my 70.3 times, I’d guesstimate a finishing time of 9.50 – 10.20 at the moment. Almost an hour off the winner for my AG… My time for Busso 70.3 in May was 4.40 (29/2.25/1.40) and that was based on the following training volume:

 

 

Swim

Bike

Run

Total

Hours/week

Feb

10

9

15

34

8.5

Mar

12

14

18

44

11

Apr

10

17

17

44

11

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I don’t have what it takes, so be it, but I’ll have a crack. I was planning on taking some time off work to train for it, so IMWA is in Dec, perhaps go from 5 days – 3 days a week for 2 months leading up to that, anyone done that?

 

Based on my recent time/volume what kind of volume should I be looking for to go 9.30 – 9.45?

 

I don’t want to look for any shortcuts in qualifying i.e racing one of the KQ 70.3s in China, but if I don’t KQ next year in Busso I’d look at doing another race to try and qualify. What would be a good option? Happy to travel.

 

I have a got a treadmill now and I’m finding it much easier to run more, ran 80km this week, leadup to Busso run volume was 40 – 50km/week so I’m anticipating this season and beyond being able to run considerably more and hopefully see some decent improvements in the run, which is my weakest leg.

If you think I'm being unrealistic, I have no problem with you saying so!

Edited by zed

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Hey Zed. 

Looking at your half you are going to need to make big improvements in your running. To be a realistic chance you need to be sub 1:30 off the bike and translate it to 3:20-3:35 depending on ride and age group.

 

The hours- if you want to improve moderately quick then 14h a week/two hours a day average is something to work towards. For the younger guys 21h week or 3h a day to improve rapidly.

This also doesn't just mean logging hours or volume but training for improvement. Be that skills, speed, endurance, strength, technique. These stuff get you better. Hours just get you fitter.

It may seem like a lot of commitment but there are a lot of guys out there you need to beat that have a head start and are quite committed.

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Busso will always be tough to Qualify at mate. Lots of people out chasing PBs around there. The pointy end of the age group races are (generally) quite drafty.

For what it's worth, the few times I have qualified have been Busso once and Cairns twice, whereas I am ~60kg, so the harder bike/run courses suit me. I think the Asia Pac champs with extra slots is always a good bet. Another option is to travel to an Ironman that is very close to Kona (pre or post Kona date) as a lot of the age group big hitters are racing Kona. 

Looking at the volume of your training (without knowing intensity or quality) you definitely need to up the hours and build that aerobic foundation. The top Age groupers are the ones that can race just below their (very high) aerobic threshold most of the day.

 

Good luck mate, just remember to not get too caught up in qualifying, it can turn people crazy!

 

 

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If you really are that focused to give it a go, have you considered looking for a coach who can take some of the pressure of you to work out what you need to do? Maybe someone with a track record of competing, and also training others who have gotten there? 

Maybe not even a coach, but a mentor maybe? Someone who can help keep you on track.

You certainly don't have to go this route. But I reckon you'll find there are plenty here that have to get the improvement they wanted to get there. Even Cranky :)

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As AP says, IM is 70% mental.  Advice from previous posters is good, add to that getting your head in the right space and be consistent with the training.  The more 'average' you are, the more consistent you need to be (at least that's what I found :)) to get there.  Probably took me a couple of years to do it and I saw plenty of people who came and went during that time because they tried to do it in a very short space of time and overcooked themselves (physically and mentally).

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So you're thinking Busso 2017?

4 months away. That's not necessarily much time to make some big improvements.

It may be better to get your running sorted out first and another couple of IM under your belt before giving it crack. Few reach their potential in only their second IM. It's also a bit concerning that running is your week leg. To qualify for IM you have to be strong runner.

I think after Taupo/Port next year you would be more informed and in a better position to make the appropriate choices.

BTW, how old are you?

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15 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

So you're thinking Busso 2017?

4 months away. That's not necessarily much time to make some big improvements.

It may be better to get your running sorted out first and another couple of IM under your belt before giving it crack. Few reach their potential in only their second IM. It's also a bit concerning that running is your week leg. To qualify for IM you have to be strong runner.

I think after Taupo/Port next year you would be more informed and in a better position to make the appropriate choices.

BTW, how old are you?

No, Busso 2018. I'm doing the 70.3 in december. And when I say running is my weak leg, I guess my times have been commensurate with the volume of training.   Plus I haven't really had a clue about run training until the last 6 months, coaches have now helped with that. Everything I used to do was high intensity, 10/12kms at race pace, next day 400m intervals, day after 1km intervals etc I was getting sore and injured, no consistency, so 3 weeks running, 1 week off injured, 6 weeks running, 2 weeks off etc and subsequently very little improvement. And because of that inconsistency I only averaged 38km/week last year, which isn't a massive amount. Now I have a program and more of an idea, I'm starting to get some decent mileage in (70 - 80kms week) and I'm not getting sore and staying injury free. I've got from now until december to work on my running, so I'll see how I go. 

And I also have a few kegs I can afford to lose, travelling at around 74kg (170cm), I'm now eating pretty clean and drinking 3 beers a week compared to 20'000 a few years back.  

 

I'm 45, but look like I'm about 24.

Edited by zed

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1 hour ago, truck said:

As AP says, IM is 70% mental.  Advice from previous posters is good, add to that getting your head in the right space and be consistent with the training.  The more 'average' you are, the more consistent you need to be (at least that's what I found :)) to get there.  Probably took me a couple of years to do it and I saw plenty of people who came and went during that time because they tried to do it in a very short space of time and overcooked themselves (physically and mentally).

Yeah I've got 15 months and if there's any danger of mental/physical burnout I'll simply can it. I've seen too many people push too hard and end up hating the sport and ultimately leaving it permanently. 

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2 hours ago, ghettodeluxe said:

Busso will always be tough to Qualify at mate. Lots of people out chasing PBs around there. The pointy end of the age group races are (generally) quite drafty.

For what it's worth, the few times I have qualified have been Busso once and Cairns twice, whereas I am ~60kg, so the harder bike/run courses suit me. I think the Asia Pac champs with extra slots is always a good bet. Another option is to travel to an Ironman that is very close to Kona (pre or post Kona date) as a lot of the age group big hitters are racing Kona. 

Looking at the volume of your training (without knowing intensity or quality) you definitely need to up the hours and build that aerobic foundation. The top Age groupers are the ones that can race just below their (very high) aerobic threshold most of the day.

 

Good luck mate, just remember to not get too caught up in qualifying, it can turn people crazy!

 

 

Yeah I've read that sep/oct time is a good time to try and qualify. I'm not going to move heaven and earth to try and qualify and I won't let it take over my life. I tend to be pretty realistic with my goals too, so I'll have a good idea a couple of months out if I've got any chance of qualifying. I'll probably give it a one shot and if it doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world

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2 hours ago, Ruley said:

Hey Zed. 

Looking at your half you are going to need to make big improvements in your running. To be a realistic chance you need to be sub 1:30 off the bike and translate it to 3:20-3:35 depending on ride and age group.

 

The hours- if you want to improve moderately quick then 14h a week/two hours a day average is something to work towards. For the younger guys 21h week or 3h a day to improve rapidly.

This also doesn't just mean logging hours or volume but training for improvement. Be that skills, speed, endurance, strength, technique. These stuff get you better. Hours just get you fitter.

It may seem like a lot of commitment but there are a lot of guys out there you need to beat that have a head start and are quite committed.

Yeah aim for Busso 70.3 this year is around 14 - 16 hours, compared to my usual 10 - 11 and for IMWA 2018 hopefully if I get time off work I can get up closer to 20 hours. I have a treadmill at home, I swim when my daughter squad swims and can train at work, so can fit in decent hours without too much impact on the family.

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9 minutes ago, zed said:

Yeah I've read that sep/oct time is a good time to try and qualify. I'm not going to move heaven and earth to try and qualify and I won't let it take over my life. I tend to be pretty realistic with my goals too, so I'll have a good idea a couple of months out if I've got any chance of qualifying. I'll probably give it a one shot and if it doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world

There's been some real good advice posted on this thread - but right here - when you re-read this statement it's full of "safety valves" - the athletes who come from where you are, to actually cracking the "code" are extremely driven people - people who quietly believe in themselves - they would never say -- "  I'm not going to move heaven and earth to try" --- "I won't let it take over my life." -- "I tend to be pretty realistic with my goals" -- " I'll have a good idea a couple of months out if I've got any chance of qualifying":huh:

Now the people who you will be racing, are prepared to move heaven and earth, they're prepared to devote their life to the quest, they "own" their goals 100%, they set out to qualify, o matter how long it takes. B) 

If you can't understand what I have pointed out and make the necessary changes - you may as well not start the journey - the 70% mental formula is the whole way - it's not just race day - it starts now B)

 

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2 minutes ago, AP said:

There's been some real good advice posted on this thread - but right here - when you re-read this statement it's full of "safety valves" - the athletes who come from where you are, to actually cracking the "code" are extremely driven people - people who quietly believe in themselves - they would never say -- "  I'm not going to move heaven and earth to try" --- "I won't let it take over my life." -- "I tend to be pretty realistic with my goals" -- " I'll have a good idea a couple of months out if I've got any chance of qualifying":huh:

Now the people who you will be racing, are prepared to move heaven and earth, they're prepared to devote their life to the quest, they "own" their goals 100%, they set out to qualify, o matter how long it takes. B) 

If you can't understand what I have pointed out and make the necessary changes - you may as well not start the journey - the 70% mental formula is the whole way - it's not just race day - it starts now B)

 

Yeah I get what you're saying. I've got a wife and kids to consider and I don't want my life to become consumed by training/IM because there might be long lasting repercussions e.g burnout/divorce. But then maybe that's something that needs to happen, sacrifice my life for IM for a short period of time. My wife is on board and I think I can do it without it being all-consuming. 

 

When i said move heaven and earth, I meant flying all round the world desperately trying to qualify or finding some shortcut/backdoor way of getting a spot. As ghettodeluxe said -"just remember to not get too caught up in qualifying, it can turn people crazy!" As far as training goes, I will be putting in the hours and the dedication. Whether it's enough I don't know. 

 

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30 minutes ago, zed said:

Yeah I've read that sep/oct time is a good time to try and qualify. I'm not going to move heaven and earth to try and qualify and I won't let it take over my life. I tend to be pretty realistic with my goals too, so I'll have a good idea a couple of months out if I've got any chance of qualifying. I'll probably give it a one shot and if it doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world

Can you handle some ( potential) cold? At 60kgs with an improved run, you'd could look at IM Wales. Mega hilly bike and run, it's in mid Sept and qualifies you for Kona for the following year. I'm not sure how many KQers there are at Wales but I doubt that many are looking at the race as a last chance to KQ because they have the next year also.

a long way to go for sure but maybe worth a look?

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17 minutes ago, FatPom said:

Can you handle some ( potential) cold? At 60kgs with an improved run, you'd could look at IM Wales. Mega hilly bike and run, it's in mid Sept and qualifies you for Kona for the following year. I'm not sure how many KQers there are at Wales but I doubt that many are looking at the race as a last chance to KQ because they have the next year also.

a long way to go for sure but maybe worth a look?

Better in the cold than the heat. But I'm 74kg not 60kg! My wife's family is in the UK and we're planning on holidaying there in 2018, so that could be an option.

Edited by zed

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I'm not saying that sacrificing family life etc to KQ is the right thing to do - all I'm pointing out is the fact that the sort of people you'll be racing against take those sort of risks - take the case of - Scott ----- from down Dubbo way - who took PEDs to KQ and got caught - these are the desperados who line up to try and qualify - the way to stand up against these guys is with a "rock solid mental game" B)

The IM Wales trip for the wife sounds like a winner - I shudder at the thought of a 14C swim :huh:

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2 minutes ago, AP said:

I'm not saying that sacrificing family life etc to KQ is the right thing to do - all I'm pointing out is the fact that the sort of people you'll be racing against take those sort of risks - take the case of - Scott ----- from down Dubbo way - who took PEDs to KQ and got caught - these are the desperados who line up to try and qualify - the way to stand up against these guys is with a "rock solid mental game" B)

The IM Wales trip for the wife sounds like a winner - I shudder at the thought of a 14C swim :huh:

Cool, cheers AP.

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23 minutes ago, zed said:

Better in the cold than the heat. But I'm 74kg not 60kg! My wife's family is in the UK and we're planning on holidaying there in 2018, so that could be an option.

haha sorry mate, got my posters mixed up.   I'm there this year so I will keep an eye on KQ times/conditions etc for you.

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If your real goal is IM and Kona, the 70.3 in Sth Africa sounds like a distraction. 70.3 is just a really solid training day for the big picture goal.

That money and time you're investing in racing in Sth Africa would be better spent on getting more IM experience and another chance at qualifying.

Sure, do lots of shorter races, (hard racing is some of the best training you will do), but if it compromises time, opportunities and finances to make Kona happen, you may well have to be more selective.

You will be racing in a competitive age group. Looking at this year's Port results I know I couldn't compete with those guys, no matter how focused and well trained I was. Could my 25-29 year old self have qualified at Port this year? I reckon so.

Like AP, I reckon you're going to need to tip all the odds in your favour.

Edited by Paul Every
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It's not about the14-16h for a 12 week build, it's about twelve months of that and the opportunity it gives you to work and improve on lots of stuff. To make long term development. 

As AP has pointed out reading between the lines the mentality doesn't yet sound that of a qualifier. It's going to have to swing to one of making things work and happen.

If you are going to be on the cusp, not comfortably in, and serious about qualifying be prepared to hit 5-6 races over 2-2.5 years and put yourself in that borderline position 4 times and wait for probability to throw your number up.

On the longer term time commitment I don't think it's as bad as it sounds if you are appropriately disciplined. If you don't have a flexible job you'll become friends with 4-4:30am. It's not a crazies thing, just a tough decision by someone passionate who knows what they want and has to make options. Those genuinely seeking to be high achievers in other fields do very similar things to create time. For many it gives them 2h on any weekday morning and on a weekend 5h to be home by 930 with 150k in the legs. Your internal response to asking questions like this will give you an insight into how much you do actually want it.

Have you set yourself some mid term goals? Some mid term run performance goals?

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Ruley & AP are right. Unless you are seriously talented, you won't KQ on a 12 week build. 14 hours a week isn't hard at all if you really want to go.

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9 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Ruley & AP are right. Unless you are seriously talented, you won't KQ on a 12 week build. 14 hours a week isn't hard at all if you really want to go.

Correct 

you need to be doing 14 hr  weeek in weeek out for 12-18 months and then ramp it up to the 18-20 for the 14-16 week build

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10 hours ago, Ruley said:

It's not about the14-16h for a 12 week build, it's about twelve months of that and the opportunity it gives you to work and improve on lots of stuff. To make long term development. 

As AP has pointed out reading between the lines the mentality doesn't yet sound that of a qualifier. It's going to have to swing to one of making things work and happen.

If you are going to be on the cusp, not comfortably in, and serious about qualifying be prepared to hit 5-6 races over 2-2.5 years and put yourself in that borderline position 4 times and wait for probability to throw your number up.

On the longer term time commitment I don't think it's as bad as it sounds if you are appropriately disciplined. If you don't have a flexible job you'll become friends with 4-4:30am. It's not a crazies thing, just a tough decision by someone passionate who knows what they want and has to make options. Those genuinely seeking to be high achievers in other fields do very similar things to create time. For many it gives them 2h on any weekday morning and on a weekend 5h to be home by 930 with 150k in the legs. Your internal response to asking questions like this will give you an insight into how much you do actually want it.

Have you set yourself some mid term goals? Some mid term run performance goals?

This 

4am is a piece of cake once u are used to it , it's the 3-15 and 3-30ams that start to get to you

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2 hours ago, ironpo said:

This 

4am is a piece of cake once u are used to it , it's the 3-15 and 3-30ams that start to get to you

Yes that's exactly right about the 4am starts - about every six months we do a "Cycos Boot Camp" - it's usually 14 days of 4.30am starts - each day we start with 500 reps of varied core work (one morning we did 1,000 reps) - we swim every day and alternate run and cycle days - the average day is 3-4hrs total B)

What we gain is mainly psychological - everyone's swim picks up - but everyone wakes up at 3-3.30am - after 14 days of early rises - 4am feels like a sleep in - 4.30am has you feeling lazy - the group mentality changes dramatically over those 14 days - and 4.30 starts means 4.30 starts - if you arrive at the pool at 4.35 you find the gate is locked - there are only two options - early or on time - there is no third option :mellow:

The object of the "Boot Camp" is to establish the mindset - this is the mindset which has driven 75 of our club members to qualify for Hawaii - many multiple times - this game is all mental - but the mental component starts right now - not two weeks out B)

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On 31/07/2017 at 0:50 PM, zed said:

I’ve been focusing mainly on 70.3s the last couple of seasons and will do for next season, but for 2018/2019 I’d like to have a crack at qualifying for Kona (inspired by Cranky’s journey J).I have no idea if I’m capable of qualifying

1. Thank you! Glad to hear it.

 

Quote

If you think I'm being unrealistic, I have no problem with you saying so!

2. You need to think that you can and try really hard to ignore those who think you can't.  At the end of the day, if you think positive, you'll enjoy the journey a lot more. See yourself accepting your ticket. I had a picture in my head every time a session got hard. It was my lei around my podium trophy.  And you know what the first photo was that I took once I received my trophy? See below...

You'll feel like shit if you don't qualify, regardless of whether you thought you could or your couldn't, so you may as well dream big and enjoy the ride, rather than being a Negative Nancy.

PS - I am so excited for you!!

On 31/07/2017 at 1:11 PM, ghettodeluxe said:

 

Looking at the volume of your training (without knowing intensity or quality) you definitely need to up the hours and build that aerobic foundation. The top Age groupers are the ones that can race just below their (very high) aerobic threshold most of the day.

 

Good luck mate, just remember to not get too caught up in qualifying, it can turn people crazy!

 

 

I think I did up to 15 hours in my big weeks.

Ignore that last comment. You must get caught up it. It will rule your life and nothing will go ahead without considering your training / diet / rest, etc.  Just know that it will and it won't be a big shock.

On 31/07/2017 at 1:14 PM, goughy said:

If you really are that focused to give it a go, have you considered looking for a coach who can take some of the pressure of you to work out what you need to do? Maybe someone with a track record of competing, and also training others who have gotten there? 

Maybe not even a coach, but a mentor maybe? Someone who can help keep you on track.

You certainly don't have to go this route. But I reckon you'll find there are plenty here that have to get the improvement they wanted to get there. Even Cranky :)

Yeah. I couldn't have done it without a coach, for a couple of reasons:
1. It made me accountable for each session. No slacking off.
2. I didn't have to worry if I was doing enough. Wake up, do the session, forget about it.
3. When I had a bad session, I had someone there to either tell me to pull my finger out or remind me that not every single session will go to plan.
4. My run went from average to the 8th fastest female run on the day (including the pros!)

On 31/07/2017 at 1:17 PM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Cranky as a mentor. That's dangerous.

Agreed

On 31/07/2017 at 1:47 PM, truck said:

  Probably took me a couple of years to do it and I saw plenty of people who came and went during that time because they tried to do it in a very short space of time and overcooked themselves (physically and mentally).

Live on the edge. I think I nearly fell over several times, but I have managed to hold on and I continue to get up each morning for training.  Just remember that:
1)  you will feel so much better at the end of the session and
2) Kona will be fricken amazeballs so you can't fall off!

On 31/07/2017 at 3:46 PM, AP said:

- it's not just race day - it starts now B)

 

This. It's corny but, print out a heap of triathlon related motivational posters. Just search Google Images. Have these set up in your pain cave and pick your favourite one for your screen saver on your phone so every time you look at it, it's punching you in the face. My screen saver was:
"I can and I will. Watch me"
I still love it!

These will pop into your head at random times during your training sessions, and for me, they really helped.

On 31/07/2017 at 4:00 PM, zed said:

Yeah I get what you're saying. I've got a wife and kids to consider and I don't want my life to become consumed by training/IM because there might be long lasting repercussions e.g burnout/divorce. But then maybe that's something that needs to happen, sacrifice my life for IM for a short period of time. My wife is on board and I think I can do it without it being all-consuming. 

 

When i said move heaven and earth, I meant flying all round the world desperately trying to qualify or finding some shortcut/backdoor way of getting a spot. As ghettodeluxe said -"just remember to not get too caught up in qualifying, it can turn people crazy!" As far as training goes, I will be putting in the hours and the dedication. Whether it's enough I don't know. 

 

I don't mean to be sexist, but you're a father. You can get away with a lot more. If I could do it, you can. Being a mother of 3, and the one that did all the running around and organising of the kids, and most of the housework and cooking, there were some very early mornings and lots of early nights. I needed to be back in the house by 6:30am on a weekday and usually by 8:30am on a weekend. I'm still married, just.  Sometimes your alarm will go off at 4am. Occasionally it may need to go off at 2am. It may mean napping behind your desk in your lunch break.
You've got to decide, how bad do you really want it.
And then if you are putting your family though this, you better bloody qualify or else you've done it all for nothing (not really, but it's how I felt).

20 hours ago, Ruley said:

On the longer term time commitment I don't think it's as bad as it sounds if you are appropriately disciplined. If you don't have a flexible job you'll become friends with 4-4:30am. It's not a crazies thing, just a tough decision by someone passionate who knows what they want and has to make options. Those genuinely seeking to be high achievers in other fields do very similar things to create time. For many it gives them 2h on any weekday morning and on a weekend 5h to be home by 930 with 150k in the legs. Your internal response to asking questions like this will give you an insight into how much you do actually want it.

This.
Just wake up and do it. End of story.

20 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Ruley & AP are right. Unless you are seriously talented, you won't KQ on a 12 week build. 14 hours a week isn't hard at all if you really want to go.

...and this.

10 hours ago, ironpo said:

This 

4am is a piece of cake once u are used to it , it's the 3-15 and 3-30ams that start to get to you

You'll get used to it as long as you can fit in a nap.
And you'll learn to love the early mornings (or at least you should - it'll make it easier). The moon and starts and no traffic. It's a beautiful and peaceful time of day.


GO GET 'EM ZED!!

FB_IMG_1501572704640.jpg

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53 minutes ago, AP said:

Yes that's exactly right about the 4am starts - about every six months we do a "Cycos Boot Camp" - it's usually 14 days of 4.30am starts - each day we start with 500 reps of varied core work (one morning we did 1,000 reps) - we swim every day and alternate run and cycle days - the average day is 3-4hrs total B)

What we gain is mainly psychological - everyone's swim picks up - but everyone wakes up at 3-3.30am - after 14 days of early rises - 4am feels like a sleep in - 4.30am has you feeling lazy - the group mentality changes dramatically over those 14 days - and 4.30 starts means 4.30 starts - if you arrive at the pool at 4.35 you find the gate is locked - there are only two options - early or on time - there is no third option :mellow:

The object of the "Boot Camp" is to establish the mindset - this is the mindset which has driven 75 of our club members to qualify for Hawaii - many multiple times - this game is all mental - but the mental component starts right now - not two weeks out B)

Love it!

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13 hours ago, Ruley said:

It's not about the14-16h for a 12 week build, it's about twelve months of that and the opportunity it gives you to work and improve on lots of stuff. To make long term development. 

As AP has pointed out reading between the lines the mentality doesn't yet sound that of a qualifier. It's going to have to swing to one of making things work and happen.

If you are going to be on the cusp, not comfortably in, and serious about qualifying be prepared to hit 5-6 races over 2-2.5 years and put yourself in that borderline position 4 times and wait for probability to throw your number up.

 

 

I was thinking about what you wrote last night and it makes a lot of sense. It could take me 4 or 5 races to get it right. Probably highly unlikely I'm going to get it right in only my 2nd IM, first in 3 years. I think it makes more sense to set myself some more realistic goals e.g sub 10/top 10. Do IMWA next year and possibly Cairns, don't worry about KQ for the time being. If things go well and I cope with the training load, look at ramping things up for 2019. 

I guess one of my concerns is burnout. I'm worried training/racing IM for 2 - 3 years may leave me burned out. I don't feel like that at the moment and in my 4th year still very motivated, but I've seen a lot of people come and go, they train hard and race IM solidly for 2 - 3 years, then they're done with triathlon. It would be naive of someone to think that will never happen to them. I'm trying to ensure that doesn't happen to me and that I have longevity in the sport, I want to still be racing in 10 years time and I'd take 10 years in the sport and no KQ over 5 years and a KQ.  

 

cheers

Quote

Have you set yourself some mid term goals? Some mid term run performance goals?

I guess sub 4.30, 70.3 podium sub 10 for IM and run wise, well as I said that's my weakness so I guess sub 40 for 10km and sub 1.30 for a HM. I don't think I'm too far off those goals. 

 

 

 

Edited by zed
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5 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

Have you done an ironman before zed?

Yeah back in 2014, my first year of triathlon, I had NFI idea what I was doing :lol:

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3 hours ago, ironpo said:

Correct 

you need to be doing 14 hr  weeek in weeek out for 12-18 months and then ramp it up to the 18-20 for the 14-16 week build

Endurance sports are about patience and consistency.

There are so many 12, 16, 20 week training programs out there for tri, marathons, etc, because there's certainly a market for them, however the top athletes largely train hard and are race fit all year round. Sure their are phases and periodisation built into their calendars around target races, but success isn't pinned to a few months of increased mileage.

And they're the guys your competing against for a Kona spot.

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So you're hoping to nail a KQ on your second IM?

Sure it happens for some, but it usually requires either a lot talent, a less competitive age group or one susceptible to rolldowns, a big endurance base leading in, and a lot of hard work and dedication.

Learning to race IM well doesn't necessarily happen in just a few races.

Edited by Paul Every
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Just now, Paul Every said:

Endurance sports are about patience and long term consistency.

There are so many 12, 16, 20 week training programs out there for tri, marathons, etc, because there's certainly a market for them, however the top athletes largely train hard and are race fit all year round. Sure their are phases and periodisation built into their calendars around target races, but success isn't pinned to a few months of increased mileage.

And they're the guys your competing against for a Kona spot.

I train all year around. Race season is nov - april, then winter I'm not racing but would normally train 10 hours a week, currently doing about 12 hours. I join a squad 12 weeks out from a 70.3, and although it's a 12 week program I'm on, I'm already in reasonably good shape when I start. 

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Dude, should be racing year round around as well. 6 months of no racing. Not turning yourself inside out on a regular basis for half your racing life isn't going to teach you how to race and how to manage your body and mind on race day.

Yeah, yeah....."I train really hard and that's an ideal substitute for regular racing". That is true for very few.

And you're going need every bit of race experience to KQ at your second IM.

10 hours a week is SFA for someone looking to KQ. Sure you're going to change that, but for it sounds like you don't you just don't quite comprehend what some are saying and what's required.

Athletes like Ruley, AP, Trout, etc have already walked the path you hope to take. Lots of no-bullshit, un-sugar-coated advice on this thread.

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Didnt cranky kq at her second? 

Everyone was pretty positive about those efforts

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1 hour ago, Paul Every said:

 

Athletes like Ruley, AP, Trout, etc have already walked the path you hope to take. Lots of no-bullshit, un-sugar-coated advice on this thread.

I acknowledge and appreciate all the advice hence the reason I said that KQ is probably something that will have to wait a few years. I'm not going to be ready next year and I'll set myself some more conservative goals. If I achieve those goals next year then perhaps look at 2019. As Ruley mentioned, I need a number of races on board before I can even think about KQ, I totally agree with that. Next year I'll ramp up the training in winter and build towards IMWA in december with the view to go sub 10 hours, if the training goes OK and I achieve my goal, then I can go from there. If things go pear-shaped, I'll reassess. I'll be doing this most likley with my current coach/squad, so I'm not winging it.

 

 

Edited by zed
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24 minutes ago, Turts said:

Didnt cranky kq at her second? 

 

Yeah, but she's not human.

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2 hours ago, Turts said:

Didnt cranky kq at her second? 

Everyone was pretty positive about those efforts

I may be criticised for this, but I'll venture to say M50 is a harder proposition.

Don't get me wrong, I 'm not questioning or devaluing that Cranky deserved her place at Kona. Her thorough training or extraordinary commitment are exemplars of what it takes.

Zed is up against a larger pool of athletes chasing a KQ. Sure there are more places, but even if he nails a near-perfect race, if he is a marginal qualifier he's likely to be relying on a greater number of competitors obliging his KQ aspirations by having a bad day. Additionally, larger categories generally don't roll down as far time wise. 

There are a lot of talented, experienced and tough M50 athletes around. And these are the guys that Zed has to beat, as an IM neophyte with a self-confessed weak run over 21km.

For example, how good an athlete is 50yo Tim Sloan? 22 years ago, Tim ran an Australian record for 100km. That record still stands, despite every year, numerous quality Aussie runners having raced fast courses against the best international competition. Even Olympic marathoner Martin Dent has failed in an attempt to break Tim's 6:29.

I don't think anyone is being negative toward Zed. I'd guess anyone who has read the thread would want him to succeed. I don't know him and I certainly hope he makes it. It's just that there's a few of us here who aren't going to blow smoke up his arse when he is considering a commitment with significant financial, time and family impacts.

Edited by Paul Every
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1 minute ago, Paul Every said:

 

I don't think anyone is being negative toward Zed. I'd guess anyone who has read the thread would want him to succeed. I don't know him and I certainly hope he makes it. It's just that there's a few of us here who aren't going to blow smoke up his arse when he is considering a commitment with significant financial, time and family impacts.

Yup and that's exactly what I don't want, smoke blown up my arse. Got some good honest advice (which is why I posted here)  and will follow it. 

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3 hours ago, zed said:

Yeah back in 2014, my first year of triathlon, I had NFI idea what I was doing :lol:

Haha and how did that go?  If you're a different athlete now then why not ditch the 70.3 this year and have another crack.  I'd suggest you would get more out of that experience for next year than another 70.3.

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25 minutes ago, zed said:

Yup and that's exactly what I don't want, smoke blown up my arse. Got some good honest advice (which is why I posted here)  and will follow it. 

Pay the $10k & race in CO division you will get a Kona spot with your times.  Less impact on the family & it's different experience. 

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15 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Pay the $10k & race in CO division you will get a Kona spot with your times.  Less impact on the family & it's different experience. 

That's like drinking Nescafe instead of real espresso :huh: I think anyone trying to justify this approach has tongue in cheek 

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How much is it natural talent versus hard work? How likely is it that anyone can go from MOP in Olympic distance tri on about max 5 hours week, to KQ ...if they put in the work, have the commitment, 15-20hrs for 3-4 years of the right training? 

Edited by Limited
Typo

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Very likely - I've seen it happen many times - the difference is mindset - belief - dream big and get to work - there'll be times when you'll doubt  but over rule that doubt with more work B)

If you read all the posts on this thread you'll find the language used in some of the posts is outlining "what could go wrong" - often the posts are full of clues pointing to a lack of real belief. Unless this basic part of the process is not addressed early you can almost count on disappointment.

When you talk to someone who has narrowly missed out on KQ, if they're not really disappointed, they probably didn't really believe it was possible. It's easy to excuse something away if you had not really invested a lot in it.   

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4 minutes ago, Limited said:

How much its it natural talent versus hard work? 

How likely is it that anyone can go from MOP in Olympic distance tri on about max 5 hours week, to KQ ...if they put in the work, have the commitment, 15-20hrs for 3-4 years of the right training? 

It's both. The less you have of one, the more you need of the other.

Anyone? Some could, though many not. You can only train to reach your potential. If that potential to be FOP isn't there, no amount of training, coaching or commitment is going to make up for it.

That potential isn't just limited by aerobic capacity, it may be a susceptibility to injury that limits the required training. Some have the "motor" but not the "chassis".

Not everyone can reach the top of the pile, though it's always revealing how much talent, potential and good fortune is unveiled by hard work. 

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3 hours ago, Turts said:

Didnt cranky kq at her second? 

Everyone was pretty positive about those efforts

Yes, but ....

3 hours ago, zed said:

Yeah, but she's not human.

LOL! Thanks. I'll take that as a compliment :)

1 hour ago, Paul Every said:

I may be criticised for this, but I'll venture to say M50 is a harder proposition.

Don't get me wrong, I 'm not questioning or devaluing that Cranky deserved her place at Kona. Her thorough training or extraordinary commitment are exemplars of what it takes.

Zed is up against a larger pool of athletes chasing a KQ.

This. I think it is much easier to KQ as a female.

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5 hours ago, Turts said:

Didnt cranky kq at her second? 

Everyone was pretty positive about those efforts

First for me :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, Paul Every said:

Not everyone can reach the top of the pile, though it's always revealing how much talent, potential and good fortune is unveiled by hard work. 

Never a truer word spoken 

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