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Niseko

Meat and Water Diet Study

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Really damn. Maybe try clicking the youtube logo at the bottom. 

 

From 3minutes He says blood labs before and after:

C-reactor protein (see if meat is inflammatory)

HA1C (see if meat causes diabetes)

Ferritin levels (often said that meat causes high iron)

Vitamin C serum tests or clinical signs

Can do micro biome but as mentioned still not reliable th

Possibly lipids but they are so variable their usefulness is questionable.

I'll probably check triglycerides, LDLs and HDLs and liver (ALT and AST) also.

I guess before and after photos and maybe fitness test of some kind too.

 

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Yes this is better place for the discussion going no the Dean Mercer thread.

 

Going well 23 days in participants are:


 339 account entries
59% males

41% female

Age:

Under 30- 10%

30-60 83.5%

Over 60 6.5%

Previous diet: (53 participants failed to enter this data)

Vegan/vegetarian 0%

SAD 7.7%

Paleo/Primal 4.5%

LC/LCHF 45%

Keto 24%

Zerocarb/carnivore 14.8%

 

No Vegetarians unfortunately. Reading the forum no issues so far, but less than half adhering to entering data very day.

 

Measuring sleep, resting HR, Blood sugar, Ketone and bloodworks.

 

Personally I've strayed once or twice with some cauliflower booze and dark chocolate but feeling great!

 

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9 hours ago, Niseko said:

 

 

Personally I've strayed once or twice with some cauliflower booze and dark chocolate but feeling great!

 

I bet the animals arnt feeling so great as they line up to be slaughtered 

i normally don't comment on this stuff and won't again but this diet is soooo wrong ethically on just about every level

all meat or mostly meat diet might have been fine when we lived in a cave and there was only a few hundred to feed

not now , when the earth already can't sustain the farming practices of meat production today with the amount of over population on the planet 

not sure how anyone could think humans could sustain the production of  this type of diet for any length  of time without totally rooting the planet 

and agin what about the animals that are slaughtered, mistreated, and totally abused just for the sake saying well we used to eat this as caveman so it must be the best thing for us , I agree Les carbs is better but this is just way over the top 

we used to do a lot of things for lots of reasons but it doesn't make em right 

Edited by ironpo
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14 hours ago, ironpo said:

I bet the animals arnt feeling so great as they line up to be slaughtered 

i normally don't comment on this stuff and won't again but this diet is soooo wrong ethically on just about every level

all meat or mostly meat diet might have been fine when we lived in a cave and there was only a few hundred to feed

not now , when the earth already can't sustain the farming practices of meat production today with the amount of over population on the planet 

not sure how anyone could think humans could sustain the production of  this type of diet for any length  of time without totally rooting the planet 

and agin what about the animals that are slaughtered, mistreated, and totally abused just for the sake saying well we used to eat this as caveman so it must be the best thing for us , I agree Les carbs is better but this is just way over the top 

we used to do a lot of things for lots of reasons but it doesn't make em right 

Spot on. 

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I am a contrarian and am somehow drawn to topics where most of the population have been badly misled into believing untruths, (diet, religion, doping etc), so I expect and maybe want people to be upset about this stuff, because that's what happens when people are challenged on their strongly held beliefs, regardless of how untrue they are.

The issues are not as simple as you make it, but I understand  your way of thinking. It's the norm these days., with  the power of the PETA inspired dietary advice over the past decade or two, we have gone down the road where people think this type of diet is outrageous and we have become so hyper sensitive to the harsh realities of the planet and think the only important thing in life is to be nice and not hurt anyone or anything. This has seen the number of vegans grow exponentially,  and the general reaction to veganism being "that's cool", despite it being unhealthy and emasculating. There's also a growing body of research showing a strong correlation between vegetarianism and depression; Robin Williams was a vegan. I've never met a sad butcher either.

There is no such thing as a vegan diet. All food requires something to die somehow. We are part of the food cycle. The circle of life. 

Most farmers care for their animals and give them good lives and humane deaths. I would wager a far better death than the zebras in Africa that are killed by a pack of hyenas and mostly eaten while they are still alive. Where are people marching against hyenas, or whales, lions, or any other carnivore or apex predator.

The ecological argument is not as simple either. Animals are a renewable resource. One cow can feed a small tribe of Masai warriors for 20 years, as they drink the blood which provides all required nutrients, and the Eskimos live a very healthy life, that is completely self sustaining and renewable eating only seals. 

Anyway I don't care what individuals choose to eat, and take my own health risks, but I am concerned with the population being terribly misled by government dietary advice  over the past 30 years on what is and isn't healthy. They could hardly have got dietary advice more wrong if they tried. Doing the opposite of govt advice would be a pretty solid diet. Meat is possibly the only 'superfood', not something to be eaten in small quantities and lean cuts only. The truth is going to come out, about these dietary advice mistakes, maybe not completely in my life time, but when it does, I'll have played a small part in it.

 

 

 

Edited by Niseko

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21 minutes ago, Niseko said:

This family has eaten nothing but meat and water for 17 years, when the wife got Lyme disease. Father wife and two boys all in terrific health: https://thenortheasttoday.com/anderson-family-on-meat-diet-for-17-years/

 

I guess she's lucky she didnt get the red meat allergy that some people get after a tick bite 

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45 minutes ago, Niseko said:

There's also a growing body of research showing a strong correlation between vegetarianism and depression; Robin Williams was a vegan. I've never met a sad butcher either.

Do you have any references for this? I've tried Google and just get a whole load of contradicting "sources" and the only papers referenced make it quite clear that although vegans did report higher incidences of depression it was highly likely that this was pre-existing.

So you're right, there is a correlation but you appear to be implying causality...

48 minutes ago, Niseko said:

 and the general reaction to veganism being "that's cool", despite it being unhealthy and emasculating.

Could you expand on emasculating? I'm not sure about most people but I certainly don't get my sense of "masculinity" (whatever that means) from eating meat...

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I'm somewhat intrigued with some of these diets.

There was one a while back where a guy lived an entire year on nothing but potatoes - did really well. Lost weight, got 'healthier' bloods etc. Then there's the family Niseko references where they live well on meat and water alone. There's also plenty of anecdotal evidence of success on mixed and balanced diets yet the unhealthiest person I know is a vegetarian.

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18 hours ago, ironpo said:

I bet the animals arnt feeling so great as they line up to be slaughtered 

You can't just isolate animals raised for meat if you're talking ethical - that's cherry picking (pardon the reverse pun)

I'm sure many people from PETA would be happy to stomp a cockroach or spray a mosquito without consideration but if they want true animal egalitarianism they should be valued just as much as a cow or a pig. I also don't see people reeling in horror over the Xmas prawns, the sashimi or the Pâté dip. Does PETA get concerned when animal habitat is destroyed to build new homes, dig coal, grow fields of cotton for your clothes or plant the veggies you want to replace the meat? Happy to give up the leather shoes, nail polish, perfume, soap or beer which all contain animal products?

I don't like the thought of killing stuff but I also understand it's what humans do. Is it 'ethical'? Only you and your conscience can decide and you take the appropriate action based on your decision. I have absolutely no issue with people who prefer not to be involved with animal products but a quick look in their wardrobe or bathroom will almost certainly reveal some hypocrisy.

Personally, I think it's more ethical to kill something to eat than for vanity - but that's just me.

 

And IP when I say 'you' and 'your' I'm not referring specifically to you, it's a generalisation.

Edited by trinube
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3 hours ago, monkie said:

Do you have any references for this? I've tried Google and just get a whole load of contradicting "sources" and the only papers referenced make it quite clear that although vegans did report higher incidences of depression it was highly likely that this was pre-existing.

So you're right, there is a correlation but you appear to be implying causality...

Could you expand on emasculating? I'm not sure about most people but I certainly don't get my sense of "masculinity" (whatever that means) from eating meat...

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/08/09/vegetarian-depression-meat-study/

Vegetarians twice as likely to suffer depression than general population.

 

And I don't know how much more I can explain emasculating. Being an alpha male is a trait that is affirmatively encouraged by evolution (it's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of the sexiest). Alpha males are sexy to females, they are competitive, they hurt people's feelings, they are strong, they have the capability to protect, they stand up for what's right rather than what is non-confrontational. And they eat meat.

 

A vegan alpha male is a contradiction in terms. 

Edited by Niseko
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5 hours ago, Niseko said:

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/08/09/vegetarian-depression-meat-study/

Vegetarians twice as likely to suffer depression than general population.

 

And I don't know how much more I can explain emasculating. Being an alpha male is a trait that is affirmatively encouraged by evolution (it's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of the sexiest). Alpha males are sexy to females, they are competitive, they hurt people's feelings, they are strong, they have the capability to protect, they stand up for what's right rather than what is non-confrontational. And they eat meat.

 

A vegan alpha male is a contradiction in terms. 

If you google "famous vegan", Woody Harrelson comes up. 

In Zombieland (regarded by many as his finest work to date), he was not a girly-man.

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1 hour ago, trilobite said:

In Zombieland (regarded by many as his finest work to date), he was not a girly-man.

You realise movies aren't real?

Not to suggest Woody is anything but a man but that's a strange analogy to get the point across.

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Transitions is always entertaining - how Woody acted in a movie as an example of his manliness??

Some idiots somewhere living on only meat and water ??

Some of the arguments mounted here are amusing 

Imagine how tough it would be to only ever eat meat and water at every meal - what would anyone do that for - it would be possible if you were marooned and that's all you had but it would not be a conscious choice 

 

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32 minutes ago, AP said:

Transitions is always entertaining - how Woody acted in a movie as an example of his manliness??

Some idiots somewhere living on only meat and water ??

Some of the arguments mounted here are amusing 

Imagine how tough it would be to only ever eat meat and water at every meal - what would anyone do that for - it would be possible if you were marooned and that's all you had but it would not be a conscious choice 

 

Can you believe there are some idiots out there who don't eat any meat ? 

I mean unless you were marooned who would make that conscious choice?

Its the best tasting and most nutritious food there is and most animals have to risk their lives to get some but there are actually some humans who actually choose not to eat it. It's, like, totally crazy. 

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11 hours ago, Niseko said:

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/08/09/vegetarian-depression-meat-study/

Vegetarians twice as likely to suffer depression than general population.

"But the researchers did not rule out the possibility that the vegetarians’ decisions to adopt their diet could have been a symptom of depression from the start."

So, inconclusive.

 

Your subjective connection of eating meat to being an alpha male is amusing and each to their own. It certainly doesn't fit with my world view of what "being a man" entails.

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6 hours ago, trinube said:

You realise movies aren't real?

Not to suggest Woody is anything but a man but that's a strange analogy to get the point across.

Are you suggesting Zombieland is not an accurate portrayal of historic events?

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40 minutes ago, trilobite said:

Are you suggesting Zombieland is not an accurate portrayal of historic events?

Well, I've always believed Buffy was the real thing.

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On ‎28‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 8:31 AM, Notsofast said:

How do you get your carbs? Would this be a zero carb diet? If so, from my limited knowledge, doesn't the brain need a small amount of carbs to function?

I am not knocking something I have not tried, just an observation.

I will be keen to follow your progress

Cheers

NSF

excess protein the body converts to something similar to carbs

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8 hours ago, monkie said:

"But the researchers did not rule out the possibility that the vegetarians’ decisions to adopt their diet could have been a symptom of depression from the start."

So, inconclusive.

 

Your subjective connection of eating meat to being an alpha male is amusing and each to their own. It certainly doesn't fit with my world view of what "being a man" entails.

All men need to have our softer side and harder side. 

Eating meat is on the harder side.

Eating plants, not so much. 

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14 minutes ago, Niseko said:

All men need to have our softer side and harder side. 

Eating meat is on the harder side.

Eating plants, not so much. 

It's an interesting angle and I love learning about what makes other people tick. To be honest I find it baffling that your sense of masculinity is so attached to diet if I try and frame it using my world view but as I said, each to their own and it's interesting to learn how other people judge things.

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6 hours ago, monkie said:

It's an interesting angle and I love learning about what makes other people tick. To be honest I find it baffling that your sense of masculinity is so attached to diet if I try and frame it using my world view but as I said, each to their own and it's interesting to learn how other people judge things.

Agreed. We all think differently I honestly cannot comprehend how someone thinks eating meat is not adding to our primal side. Not that I put that huge value in being a super tough guy, just that I can't see how you think that it's not.

Pick the odd one out below:

Fukking, eating steak, fighting, playing a combat sport, veganism, playing heavy metal guitar, changing a tyre, fixing a fence  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Niseko

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1 hour ago, monkie said:

It's an interesting angle and I love learning about what makes other people tick. To be honest I find it baffling that your sense of masculinity is so attached to diet if I try and frame it using my world view but as I said, each to their own and it's interesting to learn how other people judge things.

Tallahassee liked eating twinkies...

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2 hours ago, Niseko said:

All men need to have our softer side and harder side. 

Eating meat is on the harder side.

Eating plants, not so much. 

Image result for real men don't eat quiche

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9 hours ago, trilobite said:

Come to think of it, zombies are exclusively carnivorous...

Yep and they are bulletproof. 

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2 hours ago, Niseko said:

Yep and they are bulletproof. 

I confess to getting confused about which zombie depictions are more accurate (eg Night of the Living Dead, Warm Bodies, World War Z, Resident Evil, to name but a few).

But it did seem clear that Woody Harrelson f$&ked their $hit up.

 

Edited by trilobite
Typo
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Not certain about strict meat and water, meat eating certainly contributed to larger brains, being smarter and evolving to being where we are today as a species.

There are studies which link excessive meat eating to bowel cancer, so not sure we want that. My question is more simple:

I want to get sugary rubbish out the house, I try to give the kids eggs, bacon, avocado and or fruit/yogurt to start the day. My wife gets on at me for this saying why do you have to do that. They don't need it.

The in law when she attempts to helps offers to bring Mc Donalds, I said thanks but no thanks as I want to feed them healthy food. She then had a melt down about "what else can I do" I said lots of things incluidng almost anything else or not doing it all.

I am being made to feel guilty for trying to feed my kids good food. I pointed out that it takes 5 minutes to scramble some eggs, to which they say its bad for them.

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1 hour ago, Rocket Salad said:

Late to the thread. Can someone some it up?

Anything that you thought was good for you growing up isn't and all the things you were told to stay away from are actually good for you.  Bottom line is that there is one giant conspiracy theory going on.  Oh, and nutritionists are part of the conspiracy and, given a few years, it will all change back again!  I think the only thing people actually agree on is that sugar is bad for you but that doesn't stop anyone eating (or drinking) it.

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1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

Not certain about strict meat and water, meat eating certainly contributed to larger brains, being smarter and evolving to being where we are today as a species.

There are studies which link excessive meat eating to bowel cancer, so not sure we want that. My question is more simple:

I want to get sugary rubbish out the house, I try to give the kids eggs, bacon, avocado and or fruit/yogurt to start the day. My wife gets on at me for this saying why do you have to do that. They don't need it.

The in law when she attempts to helps offers to bring Mc Donalds, I said thanks but no thanks as I want to feed them healthy food. She then had a melt down about "what else can I do" I said lots of things incluidng almost anything else or not doing it all.

I am being made to feel guilty for trying to feed my kids good food. I pointed out that it takes 5 minutes to scramble some eggs, to which they say its bad for them.

I am not sure people are smarter today.  One thing I know people are lazier today.  

By Niseko rules Maccas is ok just eat the pattie nothing else.  KFC great just pull of the coating.  

Will we see beef gels, meat infused sports drinks.  Meat milk.  😂😂😂

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There are studies linking the eating of meat to growth in brain size and body size. Of course there are studies showing we will die from bowel cancer.

Not sure I would eat pure meat and water either, we look to be highly evolved omnivores adapting to the supply in our environment. In this period of extreme wealth where we control the food supply to an extent (well relatively wealthy westerners) we are not constrained by supply of meat or vege, so there is a risk that we are over consuming.

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"Will we see beef gels, meat infused sports drinks.  Meat milk.  😂😂😂"

We laugh at it but about five years ago I tried an experiment - instead of taking my normal liquid food and sports drinks on a five hour ride - I made a beef broth from beef bones - gin-seng root - onions - garlic and chilli - with sea salt - (tasted good) - I strained it and filled three x 750ml bottles with it and did the 5hrs with nothing else - didn't get hungry - didn't run out of legs - ran 20min off the bike

Only problem was getting the taste out of the drink bottles - I had to bleach them :huh:

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3 hours ago, truck said:

Anything that you thought was good for you growing up isn't and all the things you were told to stay away from are actually good for you.

I think this depends on when you grew up. When I was a kid we had porridge for breakfast, ate meat and three veg cooked in butter or dripping for dinner, drank water, 'junk' food hadn't made it to Australia yet and it was very rare to have lollies or soft drink. We had milk at school and had an apple or orange if we wanted a snack.

I reckon if most people did this they'd be a lot healthier than being on the high carb, high wheat, low fat regime that's been promoted for the past 20 years.

Edited by trinube
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4 hours ago, truck said:

Anything that you thought was good for you growing up isn't and all the things you were told to stay away from are actually good for you. 

Depends on your age. If you are >50, then other than cornflakes for breakfast, you probably ate pretty well.

 

A different swing on the Nutritional Conspiracy Theory.

 

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On 10/09/2017 at 10:07 AM, BarryBevan said:

Not certain about strict meat and water, meat eating certainly contributed to larger brains, being smarter and evolving to being where we are today as a species.

There are studies which link excessive meat eating to bowel cancer, so not sure we want that. My question is more simple:

I want to get sugary rubbish out the house, I try to give the kids eggs, bacon, avocado and or fruit/yogurt to start the day. My wife gets on at me for this saying why do you have to do that. They don't need it.

The in law when she attempts to helps offers to bring Mc Donalds, I said thanks but no thanks as I want to feed them healthy food. She then had a melt down about "what else can I do" I said lots of things incluidng almost anything else or not doing it all.

I am being made to feel guilty for trying to feed my kids good food. I pointed out that it takes 5 minutes to scramble some eggs, to which they say its bad for them.

The link between bowel cancer and processed meat is very tenuous but has gathered so much momentum amongst groups looking to paint meat as the villain (including W.H.O) that it's treated as a truism.

 

There was a study showing people who ate more processed meat had 6/100 incidence of bowel cancer and people who didn't had 5/100. So instead of saying there was 1% difference they say, 1/5 =20% so the headline reads PROCESSED MEAT EATERS HAVE 20% INCREASE IN BOWEL CANCER!!

 

And I feel for you with trying to feed your kids healthy against pressure. People just don't understand how important it is in the developing years. We can thanks the poor public health information in our generation.

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10 hours ago, Merv said:

Probably not the diet for people with haemochromatosis.

Yes am aware of that and it had given me some pause but am monitoring with my Doc and she said it should be OK as avoiding plants keep the vitamin C input low and stops the iron being aboded too much. Am monitoring the Fe, fasting glucose and ketones.

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17 hours ago, Ruley said:

Busted a septuagenarian keith richards eating chips a Mooloolaba on the weekend. 

IMG_20170910_114856735.jpg

How'd the young fella go ?

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Didn't start - too tired - ate chips and watched my mates instead - I've been too much manual work lately - feel like I have done the Ultraman last week - I'll be back :lol::wheelchair:

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Having just spent 2 weeks in the USA, I'll be doing the opposite to what the USA FDA recommends. Obesity there is just off the scale. The smallest pizza I could find was a 12" and big enough to feed a family of 4. So sad to see kids waddling around, barely able to walk because of their size :-( The whole foods supermarkets were truly  "awesome" but so expensive and everything was sold in super-sized portions. Give me the French/Italian life any day.

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23 hours ago, AP said:

Didn't start - too tired - ate chips and watched my mates instead - I've been too much manual work lately - feel like I have done the Ultraman last week - I'll be back :lol::wheelchair:

To quote Arnold in the last terminator film "Old. Not obsolete."

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Are you allowed to have BBQ sauce with your meat? Some of the sauces and relishes are what really make meat taste so good without them this diet may be as boring as low fat vegetarian! Imagine ribs without any sauce.

Edited by Slowman

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On 13/09/2017 at 12:38 PM, Slowman said:

Are you allowed to have BBQ sauce with your meat? Some of the sauces and relishes are what really make meat taste so good without them this diet may be as boring as low fat vegetarian! Imagine ribs without any sauce.

Not supposed to, but I have been sneaking some low sugar tomato sauce on my patties (4 for breakfast everyday). 

Steaks don't require much, maybe I have a scrape of mustard here or there. Agreed on ribs, slated and slow cooked still good without sauce, but most sauce is so high in sugar....

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