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KieranR

How do i become a better runner keeping HR low

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zed    771
21 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

nope. 

I agree.

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AP    1,596
On 14/07/2017 at 8:58 AM, Capt Underpants said:

Real life example.

Haven't raced since 2012 and early this year signed up for Brisbane Mara in 3 weeks. Hadn't done a lot of running during the past 5 years due to injury.

For the past 6 months have been slowly building volume with 80-90% 'easy' low heart rate running.

I regularly do an 11 k loop so comparison is easy. 6 weeks ago at an average HR of 145bpm I averaged around the 5.45 min per k. Yesterday with an average HR of 143bpm did the same loop averaging 5.20bpm.

Similarly on my long run. 4 weeks ago did a 32k loop with an average HR of 150 at around the 5.50 min/k. Last Sunday same loop HR 148bpm ave 5.30 min/k.

Currently running around 75-80k per week with only 2 sessions (out of 6) where I do any speed or threshold stuff. The biggest advantage for a fat old bloke like me is that ability to back up and run the next day.

Next thing will be giving Al Pitman a call and signing up for another IM!!!!!

 

 

 

 

This will be good to see you go round the Brisbane marathon - what do we have 3 weeks? - This is the way to go - this is how I developed my own endurance - my mates laughed at me back in the early 90s - they're all gone now - I'm still in the game - they used to race each other in each long run - the last 10km would become a smash fest - I refused to join them - on race day I would beat them all - I guess I was "just lucky" :lol: 

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Fitness Buddy    624
On Friday, July 14, 2017 at 8:58 AM, Capt Underpants said:

Real life example.

Haven't raced since 2012 and early this year signed up for Brisbane Mara in 3 weeks. Hadn't done a lot of running during the past 5 years due to injury.

For the past 6 months have been slowly building volume with 80-90% 'easy' low heart rate running.

I regularly do an 11 k loop so comparison is easy. 6 weeks ago at an average HR of 145bpm I averaged around the 5.45 min per k. Yesterday with an average HR of 143bpm did the same loop averaging 5.20bpm.

Similarly on my long run. 4 weeks ago did a 32k loop with an average HR of 150 at around the 5.50 min/k. Last Sunday same loop HR 148bpm ave 5.30 min/k.

Currently running around 75-80k per week with only 2 sessions (out of 6) where I do any speed or threshold stuff. The biggest advantage for a fat old bloke like me is that ability to back up and run the next day.

Next thing will be giving Al Pitman a call and signing up for another IM!!!!!

 

 

 

 

You are following a process with intent and sticking to it hence improvement.  

Good work and run well at BM 

 

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Fitness Buddy    624
15 minutes ago, AP said:

This will be good to see you go round the Brisbane marathon - what do we have 3 weeks? - This is the way to go - this is how I developed my own endurance - my mates laughed at me back in the early 90s - they're all gone now - I'm still in the game - they used to race each other in each long run - the last 10km would become a smash fest - I refused to join them - on race day I would beat them all - I guess I was "just lucky" :lol: 

And you can still move through your hips.  You have not developed office hips

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On 7/16/2017 at 1:12 PM, AP said:

This will be good to see you go round the Brisbane marathon - what do we have 3 weeks? - This is the way to go - this is how I developed my own endurance - my mates laughed at me back in the early 90s - they're all gone now - I'm still in the game - they used to race each other in each long run - the last 10km would become a smash fest - I refused to join them - on race day I would beat them all - I guess I was "just lucky" :lol: 

Thanks Al. 2.5 weeks to go. Strangly looking forward to it after 5 years. HOW and Port Mac await next year.

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AP    1,596
5 hours ago, Capt Underpants said:

Thanks Al. 2.5 weeks to go. Strangly looking forward to it after 5 years. HOW and Port Mac await next year.

You're a young man - we have big plans for you B)

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Buggeracup    133

There have been comments regarding HR / RPE so far on this thread but not much specifically on run pace that constitutes 'easy' in the 80/20 concept.

For arguments sakes, let's say someone is currently running a 10KM in 45mins, which equates to 4:30min/km. 

What would be a good pace to run the majority of their easy runs? Should it be around the 5:00min/km, 5:30min/km or perhaps even slower? Would this training speed change depending on the race distance that they are aiming for?

Similarly, what type of run pace would constitute their hard or fast sessions for the above athlete? Should it be faster than threshold pace, so something like 4:10-4:20min/km or even faster but shorter intervals? Or is a 'Sweet Spot' concept like that used in cycling valid also for running - so 4:40min/km-4:30min/km?

 

Good discussions so far.......

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zed    771
7 hours ago, Buggeracup said:

There have been comments regarding HR / RPE so far on this thread but not much specifically on run pace that constitutes 'easy' in the 80/20 concept.

For arguments sakes, let's say someone is currently running a 10KM in 45mins, which equates to 4:30min/km. 

What would be a good pace to run the majority of their easy runs? Should it be around the 5:00min/km, 5:30min/km or perhaps even slower? Would this training speed change depending on the race distance that they are aiming for?

Similarly, what type of run pace would constitute their hard or fast sessions for the above athlete? Should it be faster than threshold pace, so something like 4:10-4:20min/km or even faster but shorter intervals? Or is a 'Sweet Spot' concept like that used in cycling valid also for running - so 4:40min/km-4:30min/km?

 

Good discussions so far.......

There are a number of training calculators out there, I use the Jack Daniels one:

https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/

So for 10km/45 your easy pace would be 5.30 - 5.55 (I wouldn't be going much slower than 5.30 - 5.40 though), 1km interval - 4.15.

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zed    771

a

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by zed

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RunBrettRun    1,363

Training under Sean Williams for a goal 10k race i was regularly running 35km long runs avg pace was 1:15 per k slower than racepace.

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AP    1,596
11 hours ago, Buggeracup said:

What would be a good pace to run the majority of their easy runs? Should it be around the 5:00min/km, 5:30min/km or perhaps even slower? Would this training speed change depending on the race distance that they are aiming for?

I would say between 5 and 5.30 would be good - if it's a hotter day - go slower - work on run efficiency (good technique) a lot to be gained by having the best technique and good aerobic development 

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KieranR    117

So since i posted this thread I have been doing my runs all at keeping my HR below 145 bpm, my runs have been between 40 & 60 minutes to date, Most distance i have covered in that 1 hr is 9.2 km, but im being very strict on my HR as that is my focus.  One question I have, all my runs so far have seen my pace increase slightly until this Saturday just gone, i ran for 1 hr at about 1600 in the afternoon and it was a real struggle to keep the HR down below 145, overall my average HR was 143 but my pace was 6:58, where as my previous run on Thursday was 6:29 pace.  Is it normal to fluctuate while doing this focusing on HR?

I thought maybe i might have been coming down crook or something, but i haven't, it was a little hotter than my normal afternoon running times, wind was down, i ran on bitumen and some gravel trails (all flat).

 

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Paul Every    422

I haven't read the whole thread, but to me it sounds like at this stage, you're spending too much time reading.

Miles on the road and consistency should reap big rewards at this stage. Sometimes it's easy to overthink it.

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KieranR    117
6 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

I haven't read the whole thread, but to me it sounds like at this stage, you're spending too much time reading.

Miles on the road and consistency should reap big rewards at this stage. Sometimes it's easy to overthink it.

Running 3 times a week amongst my riding and swimming.  New to it all essentially, was just wondering if its normal to see the pace slip backwards a chunk after seeing progress this past few weeks.

**Im not real bright and struggle to hold in info easily, so need all the advice and reading i can get**

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AP    1,596

It is a "long term project" - you are out to "condition heart, lungs and muscle fibres" to adapt to burning fat and oxygen more efficiently

Now that's a biological adaption - you can't hurry biology - you just have to be persistent

In the years I was developing my own fat burning system - I could not tell you what speed I was running - back then my HRM only told me HR (none of the other info that seems to confuse the analytical athletes ) 

I would run gradually increasing distances (often the same runs one the same day of each week with only one of them getting longer)

The object is to accumulate as many hours as you can at the right zone - stop measuring for three or four months - then only test once every 6 weeks    

 

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Wronggenes    134

Could be a variety of factors that could lead to a slower pace, from more humidity to drinking beer the night before.

 

i wouldn't worry about it and just trust the system

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bRace    39
1 hour ago, Wronggenes said:

Could be a variety of factors that could lead to a slower pace, from more humidity to drinking beer the night before.

 

i wouldn't worry about it and just trust the system

Agreed. I also find my overall pace/time is affected by how closely I monitor HR along the way, ie sitting just under/on 145 or maybe down at 135-140 because I'm just plodding along and not really concentrating. It's also hilly where I run, so different routes will result in different overall pace.

I'd focus on overall trends rather than anomalies. Also a run test every so often on the same course & same conditions.

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MissJess    280

Following as I am finding it a hard slog to get below 30mins for 5k, and I know there are others out there the same size as me doing it...

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Fitness Buddy    624
4 minutes ago, MissJess said:

Following as I am finding it a hard slog to get below 30mins for 5k, and I know there are others out there the same size as me doing it...

Strength and mobility 

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