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Guest FFF1077

Plateaus

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Guest FFF1077

G'day all 

 

Been consistently training since August last year. Only missed 30 days in this time, longest consecutive period was 3 days in February '17.

 

The thing that I've noticed is that I have plateaued in the pool and on the bike.

Pool fitness is ok, doing what I need to, averaging 8km a week, aerobic strength focused. Maybe stroke correction coaching is the next step?? 

Bike is where I haven't really gotten any stronger/faster/fitter in the past 6 months. Once again, aerobic strength focus, long periods in the aero position etc. But I am not getting any faster. I ride as much as possible which is around 4-8hrs cycling a week. Not much by IP standards but on the weeks I have my daughter, I can only do so much. So "long" rides are fortnightly. I've been using Trainer Road but I think it is detrimental to my progress as my power measurement is way inaccurate(virtual power) and I don't feel like I am getting stronger like I was when I was riding by feel, and my long ride HR/Speeds confirm this. I consolted a friend who suggested strength intervals and more riding which made perfect sense. 

 

 

So I am looking for experiences with plateaus in fitness and how you got through it and went up a level. I have between 10-17hrs of available training time. 10 when I have my daughter, 17 when I don't. I work Mon-Fri and no weekends. 

 

Cheers 

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How has your 'program' evolved over this period?  Maybe a dramatic shake up is in order?

 

 

Note: I have no idea what I'm talking about!

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Cut the pies.  

Go trail running. 

Do some cycling races. 

Having said that my cycling times have not improved over my last 5 Ironman races.  So I'm about to get the kickr going again & signing up for racing over winter.  

I'm just enjoying some down time after 3 Ironman 10 months

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Guest FFF1077

Thanks 

 

Coach = money outlay = no can do 

 

Program is the same Goughy so maybe that needs adjustment without leaving out the principles of it...? 

 

Don't eat Pies 

Don't do cycle races 

Don't do trail running 

 

Maybe two of these could change. 

 

Thanks all 

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Change distance and intensity..... Do a specific short ride 30-40 km and do it hard and fast....... Add some intervals to you long rides. Do the same for your swims and runs. Just mix it up.....

doing the same thing over and over will give you the same results over and over.

Edited by IronmanFoz
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43 minutes ago, FFF1077 said:

 

 

Don't eat Pies 

 

Theres ya problem right there matey!

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4 hours ago, FFF1077 said:

 

 

The thing that I've noticed is that I have plateaued in the pool and on the bike.

Pool fitness is ok, doing what I need to, averaging 8km a week, aerobic strength focused. Maybe stroke correction coaching is the next step?? 

 

What's a typical swim session?

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1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

Change distance and intensity..... Do a specific short ride 30-40 km and do it hard and fast....... Add some intervals to you long rides. Do the same for your swims and runs. Just mix it up.....

doing the same thing over and over will give you the same results over and over.

This

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4 hours ago, skinnee said:

Get a coach 

Potentially shitty advice, a bad coach is worse than no coach.

IronmanFoz has the idea.  You've been doing the same thing for 10 months, your body has adapted and any improvements from doing the same thing are going to be marginal at best.  Start mixing it up and change your focus from aerobic to top end stuff for a while.

The hard thing for you here is going to be that by doing more intense work you are going to need to decrease your hours in order to get the recovery in, probably not on the weeks where you have your daughter but definitely on the off weeks.  For a while at least.  That seems to mess with a lot of people's heads, particularly those who are using exercise as a form of self-medication.

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3 hours ago, Stikman said:

You've been doing the same thing for 10 months, your body has adapted and any improvements from doing the same thing are going to be marginal at best.  Start mixing it up and change your focus from aerobic to top end stuff for a while.

I agree about the likely cause, but disagree about the reaction.

Just keep building the base.

Times don't matter.

Your target event is still how far away?

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3 hours ago, Stikman said:

Potentially shitty advice, a bad coach is worse than no coach.

IronmanFoz has the idea.  You've been doing the same thing for 10 months, your body has adapted and any improvements from doing the same thing are going to be marginal at best.  Start mixing it up and change your focus from aerobic to top end stuff for a while.

The hard thing for you here is going to be that by doing more intense work you are going to need to decrease your hours in order to get the recovery in, probably not on the weeks where you have your daughter but definitely on the off weeks.  For a while at least.  That seems to mess with a lot of people's heads, particularly those who are using exercise as a form of self-medication.

Haha - forums are great for advice too... as everyone is a qualified coach ?

check out Matt Fitzgerald training programs on training peaks or some other coaches on there - buy the program  and subscribe to training peaks and follow them.  Annual cost $100 training peaks , program $50 - a lot cheaper for self motivated folks 

If you like reading check out Joe Friel triathlon training bible on kindle 

 

 

 

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Guest FFF1077
6 hours ago, zed said:

What's a typical swim session?

Either 

4-5km straight swim with paddles and Bouy 

8 x 500 with paddles and Bouy 

4 x 1km with paddles and Bouy 

 

On my child free weekend I do 2km without any gear or with bouy alone. Usually without a watch just focussed on arm turn over and catch. Stopped wearing the watch because looking back at the data made me push too hard the next time which made me swim shit. 

 

Aerobic strength. That's the focus. Big paddles! Tired arms not lungs. 

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4 hours ago, Stikman said:

Potentially shitty advice, a bad coach is worse than no coach.

IronmanFoz has the idea.  You've been doing the same thing for 10 months, your body has adapted and any improvements from doing the same thing are going to be marginal at best.  Start mixing it up and change your focus from aerobic to top end stuff for a while.

The hard thing for you here is going to be that by doing more intense work you are going to need to decrease your hours in order to get the recovery in, probably not on the weeks where you have your daughter but definitely on the off weeks.  For a while at least.  That seems to mess with a lot of people's heads, particularly those who are using exercise as a form of self-medication.

 

1 hour ago, Tyno said:

I agree about the likely cause, but disagree about the reaction.

Just keep building the base.

Times don't matter.

Your target event is still how far away?

 

1 hour ago, skinnee said:

Haha - forums are great for advice too... as everyone is a qualified coach ?

check out Matt Fitzgerald training programs on training peaks or some other coaches on there - buy the program  and subscribe to training peaks and follow them.  Annual cost $100 training peaks , program $50 - a lot cheaper for self motivated folks 

If you like reading check out Joe Friel triathlon training bible on kindle 

 

 

 

Thanks all. 

 

Yes I agree that a change of sorts is needed but I don't want to stray too far from basic aerobic development as, in my opinion, that's what under pins long term fitness and eventually speed. 

 

Yes, a change to the regular doses of endorphins would definitely be a shock to the system, and I will tread carefully there as morning training is part of my life now, I wake up before the alarm now..... At 3am! LOL *please remember that I start work early. 

 

I don't want to get a cut and paste program from TP. Not my kettle of fish. I've read heaps of Friel, Byrn etc. I have a training philosophy, just need to get through this plateau. 

 

Thanks very much for everything folks 

 

Cheers 

 

 

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4 hours ago, FFF1077 said:

Either 

4-5km straight swim with paddles and Bouy 

8 x 500 with paddles and Bouy 

4 x 1km with paddles and Bouy 

 

On my child free weekend I do 2km without any gear or with bouy alone. Usually without a watch just focussed on arm turn over and catch. Stopped wearing the watch because looking back at the data made me push too hard the next time which made me swim shit. 

 

Aerobic strength. That's the focus. Big paddles! Tired arms not lungs. 

There's your swim problem. That's a great way to build a base. And a base is just that. Something solid to later build on. Now that you've been doing this for a long time, you will see marginal improvement at best. How are you going to learn to swim faster if you don't practice it. To improve, you now have to start hurting.

Keep the 500's in if you like them, but introduce some shorter stuff with reasonable breaks.Do some sets of 100's or 200's with 10 to 10 seconds break. Try some pyramids, which will help endurance & speed. Even try some sprint sets. 30 x 50m, doing 25m flat out and glide in the rest of the way, turn and straight into the next sprint.

You have to practice swimming fast.

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Guest FFF1077
12 hours ago, Tyno said:

you don't want to end up like Cranky :D

Sorry, I must have been out of the room when that joke was made....? 

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You're a MKC Coaching follower so plenty of good stuff and ideas that he already published are available. Go back through his vlogs and see if you can find a common theme!

========

My opinion:

Firstly, I'd keep doing what you're doing mostly, you're on the right track and consistency pays off. 

Spicy it up a bit if you really feel the need, but very cautiously.

Something like 50% easy, 30-35% moderate and 10-15% hard (in this order i.e. start with easy -> mod -> hard) once a week for swim/bike/run. Repeat for another 4-6 weeks and see how it feels, then adjust accordingly.

Above all, stay consistent and do not follow advice from people telling you to change things up dramatically. That's what people who have no trust in their training would do. I do the same thing with very little variation pretty much every single week of the year and am yet to see a real plateau, except for when I'm doing nothing like right now :D 

 

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Guest FFF1077
4 hours ago, Rog said:

You're a MKC Coaching follower so plenty of good stuff and ideas that he already published are available. Go back through his vlogs and see if you can find a common theme!

========

My opinion:

Firstly, I'd keep doing what you're doing mostly, you're on the right track and consistency pays off. 

Spicy it up a bit if you really feel the need, but very cautiously.

Something like 50% easy, 30-35% moderate and 10-15% hard (in this order i.e. start with easy -> mod -> hard) once a week for swim/bike/run. Repeat for another 4-6 weeks and see how it feels, then adjust accordingly.

Above all, stay consistent and do not follow advice from people telling you to change things up dramatically. That's what people who have no trust in their training would do. I do the same thing with very little variation pretty much every single week of the year and am yet to see a real plateau, except for when I'm doing nothing like right now :D 

 

Thanks Rog 

Yes MKC follower. The base aerobic work is what has gotten me here, and as they say "don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water" and keep building and developing "the girl you want to take to the dance". 

 

Got a few great ideas from the man, so I will start adding them in gently. 

 

Cheers all 

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5 hours ago, Rog said:

You're a MKC Coaching follower so plenty of good stuff and ideas that he already published are available. Go back through his vlogs and see if you can find a common theme!

========

My opinion:

Firstly, I'd keep doing what you're doing mostly, you're on the right track and consistency pays off. 

Spicy it up a bit if you really feel the need, but very cautiously.

Something like 50% easy, 30-35% moderate and 10-15% hard (in this order i.e. start with easy -> mod -> hard) once a week for swim/bike/run. Repeat for another 4-6 weeks and see how it feels, then adjust accordingly.

Above all, stay consistent and do not follow advice from people telling you to change things up dramatically. That's what people who have no trust in their training would do. I do the same thing with very little variation pretty much every single week of the year and am yet to see a real plateau, except for when I'm doing nothing like right now :D 

 

Yep, I did more or less the same training on the bike week in week out for a couple of years. I became an ok rider 

Edited by lzbones

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Lots of good advice on this thread, just take the stuff that you think will work for you.

I'm with Rog that consistency's the key, but I also agree with Ex that if you want to get faster then you need to practise going faster.

My view...  Given that you do this sport for health, wellbeing and fun then you need to do what you're happy with and will keep doing.  I can teach you to go faster in all three disciplines, but if your goal is to eventually race long course then keep doing what you enjoy.  Ultimately they're all good K's in the bank if you're enjoying them.

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On 6/21/2017 at 7:03 AM, FFF1077 said:

...Once again, aerobic strength focus, long periods in the aero position etc. But I am not getting any faster. ..

Tomorrow morning before work I am motorpacing a guy who won the 2012 Australian Masters TT championship (cycling). After work I meet up with the young guy who last weekend won the National U19 Road Race and was 3rd in the U19 National Time Trial. I am lucky to associate with good cyclists and watch what they do and how they train. 

Ive had my say on this stuff many times before so i wont repeat myself. Lets just say that chugging around on the TT bike doing 32kph is not going to cut it. Like it or not there is a culture in triathlon which promotes this sort of stuff and it is unlikely to change in a hurry. There are plenty of people on here who encourage it and I am not going to disagree with them. 

Im off to bed, got to get up early ...

Edited by Derny Driver

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Once again I don't disagree with Derny Driver, you will definitely get improvements by changing it up, just make sure that you don't let it destroy you.

PS, I've enjoyed watching your progress so far and think that you've been going great.

If there's any particular goal on the horizon that you want to aim at then let us know and maybe we can suggest some specific training for that.  It doesn't have to be a race goal, it might be running your fastest 5km run, or perhaps a swim or ride that you want to do.

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https://www.echo.net.au/2017/06/ride-swim-run-matt-slee-focus/

Ive been lucky to take this guy overseas racing and he is a really great person and I hope he does well in triathlon. He knows how to train hard and has the right temperament to be a success.

I know that most people are time poor and cannot commit to huge hours training. If you are happy to be a middle of the packer and enjoy the social aspect of triathlon then that's great. Unfortunately if you want to do 'fast' times or be competitive in your age group, then you need to commit a lot of time and energy to that.

Im not sure the OP can really improve his times very much with the hours available. There are no shortcuts.

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I agree something needs to change but maybe it could be focusing on certain discipline a bit more.

 

What if for a month you added another 5k swim set.  Then for a month add a 20k midweek run.  Then for a month add a 2 hour wind trainer session.  

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I found doing a craplaod of hill riding changed my cycling times. As others have said, mix it up. 

One other thing that changed my times was core work. Getting the whole body held together by your middle is paramount to all disciplines. 

FM

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On 6/21/2017 at 8:00 PM, Tyno said:

you don't want to end up like Cranky :D

What? ?

On 6/22/2017 at 8:45 AM, FFF1077 said:

Sorry, I must have been out of the room when that joke was made....? 

Me too!

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I was just havin a go.

No harm intended.

I'll keep my post to myself next time.

 

 

 

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