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goughy

Private schools...

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goughy    2,147

So with a daughter in 10, we've been talking a lot about her future after school, plus what she wants to do in school next year, once op's and stuff. Then with all the talk about private school finding lately, I've been looking at things locally. I've never really taken much notice of what private school costs, but am around how little and how much it can cost. There's a big variance. The dearest locally is around 16k\yr and over 40k if boarding. F me that's a lot of money! Then some others are under 5k. Then looking at how much public funding private schools get was eye opening as well! The were some schools (on the lower end of the fee spectrum) getting around 18k per child in govt funding.  I can't seem to find anything that indicates what some state schools are getting per child. But that seems like a lot of money to give to private schools. I heard some to end private schools in Perth, charging 20k per year we getting around 5k a child in funding. 

And the are some serious pay packets for some of these principals too.

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Cottoneyes    798

Goughy, assuming you are looking at uni post year 12.  If this is the case don't waste your money unless the public schools around are all of a really low quality.  

PM me if you want to hear of my experiences, but I firmly believe private schools don't prepare you any better than public schools using my n=1 and the late transition to private can really bugger up your education.  Save the money, send her off on a gap year between year 12 and uni to experience the real world and that will have much greater benefit for uni studies and long term career

By the way, both of my sisters hated Concordia to the point that I got threatened with being sent there whenever I misbehaved. 

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goughy    2,147

Sorry, I should have said I'm not actually looking at sending my daughter to private school. Just been finding it fascinating researching it all. 

The state school she goes to is about equal third in town for high op results, behind Toowoomba Grammar (with their 500k a year principal) and Fairholme. But..... if you look at just the girls results only Centenary Heights SHS is the best school for girls to get high op scores. So yes, you don't have to pay the bucks to get the results here. We lucked out there with our zoning changing the year before she had to start.

 

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zed    771

I went to private school and public school. You can get shit private schools with shit kids and shit teachers and you can get great state schools, with great kids and great teachers, but the one big difference between the two, is the private school can get rid of the shit kids much easier than the state school. And that counts for a lot if your state school has a bunch of delinquent kids that drag everyone else down.

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Peter    1,612

Mxwalkers wife is a headmaster. I have spoken at length about this. 

She said the stats for private school kids failing and dropping out of uni greatly outnumbers public school kids. 

Basically private school kids get too much help at school where public kids know how to work. 

She also said you are better off saving your money and just pay tutors to help you kid in the subjects they struggle in. 

Both their kids are bloody smart and bloody good kids. Both now finished uni and working in great careers. 

So I believe her 

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The Customer    1,321

My own sister and hubby have paid a bomb putting their kids through one of the best Colleges in Geelong and have worked like dogs to keep up with mortgages and schools fees - probably damaging their own happiness and longevity in doing so.

Their kids are nearly done now but were told by the College that academically they would have been better suited to a public high school since the son will probably end up a tradesman or best case struggling through uni as an engineer and the daughter will either end up a rather unconvincing Hip-Hop dancer or as an extra on the set of Neighbours. LOL

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monkie    174

Those prices are cheap for private schools by UK standards... Here you're looking at close to $60k...

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trinube    1,108
1 hour ago, Peter said:

Basically private school kids get too much help at school where public kids know how to work. She also said you are better off saving your money and just pay tutors to help you kid in the subjects they struggle in. 

I'd like to do this now as the young bloke is entirely unacademic and will likely do something with his hands. The problem is he's been in the same school for 9 years and it would be pretty cruel to remove him now. We went the private school route because our daughter was identified as gifted (flagged in pre-school) so we thought it would give her the best opportunities to develop. We   followed with our son because it would have been unfair not to.

Ironically, despite being incredibly bright and always topping her subjects, she's decided to go into teaching. That's not intended as a slight on teachers, it's just we imagined her doing Law or Medicine etc. We're happy if she's happy but it's fair to say the money we've spent probably hasn't enhanced their career potential and it's probably been north of $150k over the years.

Edited by trinube
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trinube    1,108

Oh, and as for master 13 y/o, he still thinks he's going to follow Ronaldo and play for Real Madrid.

I said to him one day "That's a great goal mate but it would probably be wise to have a plan B".

He chirped back "I do dad - Manchester United!"  :lol:  :clapping:

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goughy    2,147

I was private my whole life - and several were utter crap places.

My daughter has said she would like to try for an op1, and leave an option to look at medicine.  But the reality is, she will most likely do Psychology locally which only required an op15 this year.  But we said go for the op1 if you want to, you'll always have it.  But do what you want afterwards, not what people expect of you.

I just can't fathom the amount of money some cost - more than I make.  And they still get govt money.

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FatPom    2,321
28 minutes ago, monkie said:

Those prices are cheap for private schools by UK standards... Here you're looking at close to $60k...

I've looked into this. The main difference between Oz prices and UK is the level of entry. Most private schools in the UK start at a higher level (facilities, academia, support etc) than those in Oz. I think it's the prevelance of so many Catholic (read subsidised) schools in Oz.

What this means is that there is more choice in Oz at more price points but the 'gap' between lower priced private and state school is probably less than the gap in the UK.

We stay in Winchester for one reason only, with the exception of one, every primary school and high school is OFSTED 'Good' or 'Outsanding' and Peter Simmons College is one of the best in the country.  Having said that, the price you pay for a house in Winchester would mean you're probably better off living somewhere cheaper and paying for private school  (but I can't convince Mrs FP of that :whistling:).

I'd rather Flipper went to high school in Oz though, mainly for the sports stuff but we'll see.

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-H-    618
1 hour ago, trinube said:

Ironically, despite being incredibly bright and always topping her subjects, she's decided to go into teaching. That's not intended as a slight on teachers, it's just we imagined her doing Law or Medicine etc. 

I'm always heartened when I hear of smart kids wanting to be teachers, god knows we need some more smart teachers to teach the next generation.  Teaching should be seen as one of the most important professions, not a back up plan.  

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Rimmer    354
8 hours ago, zed said:

I went to private school and public school. You can get shit private schools with shit kids and shit teachers and you can get great state schools, with great kids and great teachers, but the one big difference between the two, is the private school can get rid of the shit kids much easier than the state school. And that counts for a lot if your state school has a bunch of delinquent kids that drag everyone else down.

Mum & Dad were both chalkies and worked at a school that the Minister for Education in Victoria at the time described as the "worst educational facility in the State". Most of the teachers there didn't give a $hit, the headmaster gave even less of a $hit and the kids were out of control. Mum was punched in the face by a student once and had her nose broken - the headmaster refused to discipline the student involved as "I don't want to interfere with a student's right to express themselves"!!! FFS!!!

Mum retired that day.

Anyways, they sent my brother and I to a Fee paying school in the town and it was the best thing for us. They got rid of the kids who were out-of-control and did so swiftly. They also didn't tolerate teachers who didn't measure up, either. The fees were high, but I contributed to them in Years 11 and 12. There was also no spoon-feeding, either. You were taught reality and competition and that has served me well for the past 30 years. I was also almost expelled twice for disciplinary matters and that put the fear of God into me and demonstrated there were actions and consequences - that would not have happened at the government schools in the town.

So, for me it is a redundant argument as the former participant (you go pretty-much where your parents send you) and matters not when you leave and join society. But, I always behave like I went to a fee paying school by the values it instilled in me and the courtesy I show to others ... but no-one would ever know (FP can attest!). 

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FatPom    2,321
1 hour ago, Rimmer said:

So, for me it is a redundant argument as the former participant (you go pretty-much where your parents send you) and matters not when you leave and join society. But, I always behave like I went to a fee paying school by the values it instilled in me and the courtesy I show to others ... but no-one would ever know (FP can attest!). 

You showed courtesy and faith in your fellow man when you hid your thongs under the hedge and had absolute faith they'd be there when you got back. :lol:

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4 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

Never underestimate the power of the old school tie. Right or wrong it still will open doors decades later. 

Exactly what I was going to say.  Sad but true.

You send your son to private school for the Old Boys Network.  He can be the dumbest !@#$% on earth, but as long as he plays the game, you'll be amazed at the levels sh*t can float to.

Not sure why you send your daughter to private school ?  Probably still some old school tie kudos for girls as well, but nothing like for boys.

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goughy    2,147

My kids school is a funny beast.  Obviously it's a state school, but generally records in the top schools in town for high op results.  Had the same number of op1's as the top two schools in town last year.  And as I said, when it comes to the girls it's actually the best school in town for results for them.  What I think has helped it is the change in demographic of the areas within it's catchment.  When I was a kid, I wouldn't say the area's were iffy, but they were more so than they are now.  Now it's catchment includes some of, if not the wealthiest suburbs and the ones that aren't are becoming sought after areas.  It pretty much doesn't include a low socioeconomic area in it's zone.  That would clearly make a big difference.

The second is the Principal.  She is fantastic, and actively promotes kids doing what they enjoy rather than what they 'should' do.  She runs it very much like a private school - no shit is accepted from kids.  They suspended over 50 kids once who attended a 'fight', even the kid who was bullied into it.  But funny enough, they have the laxest uniform code in town, even of the other state schools.  There is a formal uniform but it is only required to be worn a couple of times a term and for special occasions.  Otherwise it's sports uniform and trackies every day.  And the kids can wear any running shoe they want (must be a runner, no converse etc).

We lucked out.  Up until the year prior to starting high school, we were zoned to a different school, one of the worst performing in town.  It averages about 11% of kids getting an op 1-5 (out of kids going for an op).  There are some private schools that do worse, but not many.  But the year before Jas had to start and the zoning changed to jut out and grab our estate.  We do live in a pretty affluent estate so I guess they 'wanted' them.  Anyway, the best performing school is the big boys school getting 35% op1-5, the second one of the girls schools getting about 30% op1-5.  Ours is around equal third with 26ish% getting op1-5.  But again, the girls have the best stats in town (for girls).

Having been to several big boys schools, then a little co-ed private school, I was very devout in my opinion my kids were going to state.  My wife was even more so.  Clearly that's all we could afford anyway.  But I'll admit I'd never looked into it before and I can't believe how expensive some are........ and how much money they get in govt funding.

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Ex-Hasbeen    3,874

Our boy is going to a mid-range private school (although in a recent news report it was reported as an "Elite Brisbane school" :)). There are 2 reasons he's going there. First, whilst not "gifted" he is very smart, and will be shooting for OP1/2. This school focuses on the academic side over sports, which many in the area focus on. Secondly, he has always had anxiety issues, and we (and his Primary School teachers) felt he could get "lost" in the big schools that we are catchment to (Ferny Grove has nearly 2000 students).

From everything we've seen in the 2.5 years he's been there, we made the right choice.

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen
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goughy    2,147

My sister did the same sort of thing with their oldest.  He's gone to a smaller private school and is starting to shine, where as he was swamped in the state primary school.  

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Diamonds    403

A mate has got his kid to yr10 via Private but realised he isn't a tertiary study candidate.  Reckons that apprenticeships are so scarce, that some parents are pulling kids out of yr 11/12 and going back to public and using the saved fees to "buy" an apprenticeship opportunity. 

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Cottoneyes    798
6 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

Never underestimate the power of the old school tie. Right or wrong it still will open doors decades later. 

Depends which doors you want.  A large portion of the kids I went through private school with seem to be still sucking on their parents nest eggs and professing how great socialism is to anyone in ear range.  Never did anything for me, I don't even bother with school reunions for the private school at all, much prefer to go to the ones for the public school, even though the education there was crap.  We're at 25 years this year and so far all of the talk on the facebook pages for the reunions was about which group is actually organising the "official" reunion, why people should boycott the other one (despite being on different dates), and how one person in one group has ruined the life of one in the other group.  So all up I'm wondering if beside education does private school actually mature anyone who goes there too long

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goughy    2,147
1 hour ago, Diamonds said:

A mate has got his kid to yr10 via Private but realised he isn't a tertiary study candidate.  Reckons that apprenticeships are so scarce, that some parents are pulling kids out of yr 11/12 and going back to public and using the saved fees to "buy" an apprenticeship opportunity. 

Our kids school has a large flexi school program, and traineeships etc. They do try and identify what kids will be good at and want to do, and work towards that. 

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nealo    1,285
11 hours ago, trinube said:

Ironically, despite being incredibly bright and always topping her subjects, she's decided to go into teaching. That's not intended as a slight on teachers, it's just we imagined her doing Law or Medicine etc. We're happy if she's happy but it's fair to say the money we've spent probably hasn't enhanced their career potential and it's probably been north of $150k over the years.

Same except I don't think our daughter is quite so gifted but I'm glad we chose the route we did even if it means my mortgage is huge.

I'm still pushing Law pretty hard though :lol:

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Diamonds    403
1 hour ago, nealo said:

 

I'm still pushing Law pretty hard though :lol:

Not sure why.  Bro in law is (a high flying, every other week overseas)  one plus come into contact with a few through work.   

Couldn't pay me enough to be owned by the firm (more than a few of his wedding guests arrived from UK and US only to be summonsed on business before ceremony and leave ASAP), work so many hours I don't know my kids and get fat and unfit living the life.  

For the record the BIL was non metro  public school to post grad Harvard Law scholarship so it cant be all about the school.  

There are 5000 lives I'd lead before that one.  Readily admits he hates it.  Addicted to the status and the one luxury holiday a year they squeeze in ?

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nealo    1,285
3 hours ago, Diamonds said:

Not sure why.  

I was being a little bit facetious.

What you say is so true and ultimately I want her to do something she enjoys. She got an interest in law from mock trial against other schools and so forth, not exactly a taste of reality.

She did her work experience as a Teachers aid and loved it.

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