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Cat Lady

TQ - the endless saga of the calf sleeve debacle

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Fronted at the "flagship" TQ sprint race at moreton bay today wearing the sleeve on my dodgy calf to be told that I would be DQ if I wore it as a ruling and announcement had been made that morning.  I very politely pointed out to the official that TA does not ban calf sleeves, socks yes, sleeves OK.  She responded that no ruling exists to permit them and as such I would not be able to wear it unless I wanted to to be DQ.  I asked her that if I pulled the muscle in my calf would I be able to sue TQ (I laughed as I said it) she assured me that if I wanted I could wear it but I'd be carded and I'd have to see the race referee at the end, who was very understanding of these things and it would be OK and I'd most likely be reinstated.  ??? I had a look around and wondered why those people wearing tape were allowed to compete without threat of disqualification.  Maybe next time I'll just wrap my calf in tape!!!

wish TA would act on this and stop the confusion.

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Why have they made this ruling on calf sleeves/socks? I wear them occasionally in races.

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Sorry why are they banned?  

Crime against fashion or does it somehow put you in danger as far as TQ is concerned?

Basically whats the official reason why they are banned?

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1 minute ago, Peter said:

Sorry why are they banned?  

Crime against fashion or does it somehow put you in danger as far as TQ is concerned?

Basically whats the official reason why they are banned?

The phrase performance enhancing was uttered ?!? I only ever wear one when the leg is playing up as a preventative measure, so in this case it could be considered performance enhancing - but no more than someone with taped up knees, shoulders etc.

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I would have just said. DQ me and walked off. 

Its not like it matters unless you are going to win overall

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is this like how all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs?

So all socks are socks, but only some sleeves are socks?

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6 minutes ago, goughy said:

is this like how all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs?

So all socks are socks, but only some sleeves are socks?

You funny

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1 hour ago, Cat Lady said:

The phrase performance enhancing was uttered ?!? I only ever wear one when the leg is playing up as a preventative measure, so in this case it could be considered performance enhancing - but no more than someone with taped up knees, shoulders etc.

That's completely ridiculous. 

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

I would have just said. DQ me and walked off. 

Its not like it matters unless you are going to win overall

Correct

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27 minutes ago, roxii said:

The rediculous part is that as far as I'm aware it has been cleared up but TO's have no idea what they are doing. 

http://www.triathlon.org.au/State_Associations/NSW/About_Us/Latest_News/NSW_Technical_Officials__Technical_Advice__Calf_Socks_vs__Calf_Sleeves.htm

 

I'd be finding out who the RR was and send them this to tell all of their TO's.  particularly the one you were dealing with.

Quote

Calf Sleeves (also known as calf guards)

Calf sleeves are comprised of 100% textile material and provide compression forces on the calves. The fabric does not cover the toes and therefore the calf sleeve does not provide a competitive advantage in the swim leg.

RCR Rule 1.1 (o) allows calf sleeves to be worn at any time during an event, including during a non-wetsuit swim.

These rules are consistent with Triathlon Australia’s Sun Protection Policy, and apply for every sanctioned event in Australia, unless the Technical Delegate has specifically created a Special Rule to the contrary.

 

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15 minutes ago, Peter said:

 

I'd be finding out who the RR was and send them this to tell all of their TO's.  particularly the one you were dealing with.

 

obviously they created a "special rule" so were within their rights to ban them.  

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11 minutes ago, Cat Lady said:

obviously they created a "special rule" so were within their rights to ban them.  

I'd actually question TQ over this. 

TA rules should over ride the states. 

its their sport 

Edited by Peter

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Should have asked her if you could wear a condom under your swimmers (to keep things clean in that murky water) because I pretty sure they are not mentioned in the rules either....

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10 hours ago, Peter said:

I would have just said. DQ me and walked off. 

Its not like it matters unless you are going to win overall

I would have just told them to phuck off!

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Can any TOs (or anyone else up to speed with tri rules) tell me if I can compete in a burqa?

it could have opened up some opportunities for Julie Miller...

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So we are saying that this is just another case of misinterpretation of a rule?  Can Roxii or someone get some clarification on this, or is clarification something off of the cards? Is it an issue with covering the foot/toes, or is a flotation issue (holding the lower body up)?

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As above

RCR Rule 1.1 (o) allows calf sleeves to be worn at any time during an event, including during a non-wetsuit swim.

 

the only thing that needs to be clarified is WTF the TO's think they are enforcing. 

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Hence the need for clarification!

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I get what you are gettng at but I don't think "clarification" is the term, the rule seems clear and no need for clarification. 

What is required is an explanation as to why the TO's were enforcing a rule that does not exist or more importantly contradicting an existing rule 

its like a cop booking you for driving within the speed limit!! 

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1 hour ago, roxii said:

I get what you are gettng at but I don't think "clarification" is the term, the rule seems clear and no need for clarification. 

What is required is an explanation as to why the TO's were enforcing a rule that does not exist or more importantly contradicting an existing rule 

its like a cop booking you for driving within the speed limit!! 

it's the coda which causes the issue(my italics and underline):

RCR Rule 1.1 (o) allows calf sleeves to be worn at any time during an event, including during a non-wetsuit swim.

These rules are consistent with Triathlon Australia’s Sun Protection Policy, and apply for every sanctioned event in Australia, unless the Technical Delegate has specifically created a Special Rule to the contrary.

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10 hours ago, The Customer said:

Shirin Gerami represented Iran wearing this...

Full burqa might might be a tad stifling.

shirin_gerami5-1_zpsxpjpioi5.jpg

Does she cover up in a non-wetsuit swim?

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10 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

It's not like a calf sleeve is going to make someone go faster.....

You save that one for when you get a second yellow. Tell them to fark off. They will give a red instead. 

You can dispute a red. Not a yellow. 

Basically say sorry after the race. Time will stand. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Cat Lady said:

it's the coda which causes the issue(my italics and underline):

RCR Rule 1.1 (o) allows calf sleeves to be worn at any time during an event, including during a non-wetsuit swim.

These rules are consistent with Triathlon Australia’s Sun Protection Policy, and apply for every sanctioned event in Australia, unless the Technical Delegate has specifically created a Special Rule to the contrary.

You would be a brave or foolish technical delegate who would make a call that contravenes a rule that is in place and in line with a sun safety policy unless there was a greater overriding safety issue and I'd be interested to know what that might be. 

 

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27 minutes ago, roxii said:

You would be a brave or foolish technical delegate who would make a call that contravenes a rule that is in place and in line with a sun safety policy unless there was a greater overriding safety issue and I'd be interested to know what that might be. 

 

Especially in Qld, the skin cancer capital of the world.

Quote

“Queensland has a melanoma incidence rate of 71 cases per 100,000 people (for the years 2009-2013), vastly exceeding rates in all other jurisdictions nationally and internationally,” Prof Dunn said.

Maybe they're just trying to ensure we stay number 1. :)

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen

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On 23/04/2017 at 11:33 AM, Cat Lady said:

The phrase performance enhancing was uttered ?!? I only ever wear one when the leg is playing up as a preventative measure, so in this case it could be considered performance enhancing - but no more than someone with taped up knees, shoulders etc.

That sounds like someone making shit up on the fly.

This whole saga played out years ago in Ironman racing, when WTC banned them (for about 5 minutes, I think).  Their argument was that they obscured the category number that is/was marked on the back of your calf.

There was still some confusion on race day at Kona 2012, with some officials insisting that competitors remove their calf sleeves as they entered the water on race morning (there were tears) while other race officials were (correctly) saying that it was fine.  The same year they abolished the requirement for a race number on the back of race kit, which also seemed to be understood by about 50% of the officials.

Much ado about SFA.

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I can see why the neoprene sleeves are banned in non wetsuit races,  but not textile. If anything they would slow you down.

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1 hour ago, wetspot said:

That sounds like someone making shit up on the fly.

This whole saga played out years ago in Ironman racing, when WTC banned them (for about 5 minutes, I think).  Their argument was that they obscured the category number that is/was marked on the back of your calf.

There was still some confusion on race day at Kona 2012, with some officials insisting that competitors remove their calf sleeves as they entered the water on race morning (there were tears) while other race officials were (correctly) saying that it was fine.  The same year they abolished the requirement for a race number on the back of race kit, which also seemed to be understood by about 50% of the officials.

Much ado about SFA.

I don't think I've ever been calf marked, not that I can recall anyway.

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32 minutes ago, FatPom said:

I don't think I've ever been calf marked, not that I can recall anyway.

Seems to be the done thing at a lot of races in WA, usually marked with Age Group letter.

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1 hour ago, FatPom said:

I don't think I've ever been calf marked, not that I can recall anyway.

The norm used to be numbers Niko penned on both shoulders and one calf, maybe a cat letter on the other calf.

In the days before RFID chips when times were entered manually either with: someone calling a stopwatch split while some else wrote the numbers down, a PDE (portable dataentry unit - think like those price check machines in the supermarkets), a PC running excel etc.

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I did an oly race in tassie in march. Number tats for both arms and both legs.

Too bad if u had a sleeved suit and calf guards

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On 24/04/2017 at 9:11 AM, Cat Lady said:

it's the coda which causes the issue(my italics and underline):

RCR Rule 1.1 (o) allows calf sleeves to be worn at any time during an event, including during a non-wetsuit swim.

These rules are consistent with Triathlon Australia’s Sun Protection Policy, and apply for every sanctioned event in Australia, unless the Technical Delegate has specifically created a Special Rule to the contrary.

But did they do the following 

13. SPECIAL RULES 

The Technical Delegate may approve the addition of special rules for a particular event, provided that:

a. Participants are informed of each additional special rule before the event; and 

b. Each additional special rule and the reasons for its inclusion are advised to the TA National Manager Events before the day on which the event is to be conducted. 

If not then their special rule is not valid.

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On 24/04/2017 at 10:06 AM, roxii said:

You would be a brave or foolish technical delegate who would make a call that contravenes a rule that is in place and in line with a sun safety policy unless there was a greater overriding safety issue and I'd be interested to know what that might be. 

 

But thenswim is the least likely place to need sun protection anyway.

And also the place calf numbering is pointless! 

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4 hours ago, FatPom said:

I don't think I've ever been calf marked, not that I can recall anyway.

For the last 10 years I believe it's optional. 

I never get even arms done. 

Ive never been stopped and checked. 

Last race. Kona 2011. And I wanted those stamps bad. 

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17 hours ago, The Turtle said:

I did an oly race in tassie in march. Number tats for both arms and both legs.

Too bad if u had a sleeved suit and calf guards

Numbers on the front above your knees is where I put mine and low on the bicep below my sleeves worked just fine, apart from being a little too hairy and the tat pulling on my arm hairs. :) Good race that one, but got a little dizzy on the bike with 7 laps.

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Once again.  Why do you need numbers?

you have a number on your bike and helmet to record numbers if you are done for drafting.

you have a run belt (and bike not that I ever wear that either) for anything on the run.  Mostly emergency contact.

you have a timing chip on your ankle for official timing.

There is ZERO point to numbers written on your arms / legs etc...

It's old school numbering before we had stickers and belts (that used to be banned at Ironman by King ken and IMG.)

 

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The calf lettering was usually for categories so you could see whether you were chasing (or getting passed by) someone in your age group, which you can't always work out from  race numbers.  But it works both ways - they can also see that you're in the same category and chase that bit harder, sometimes it better to go past ninja style....:ninja:

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30 minutes ago, -H- said:

The calf lettering was usually for categories so you could see whether you were chasing (or getting passed by) someone in your age group, which you can't always work out from  race numbers.  But it works both ways - they can also see that you're in the same category and chase that bit harder, sometimes it better to go past ninja style....:ninja:

With rolling starts this no longer applies

 

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For IM yes, but don't most other races still have age group wave starts?  Stand to be corrected, i haven't raced for a while

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18 minutes ago, -H- said:

For IM yes, but don't most other races still have age group wave starts?  Stand to be corrected, i haven't raced for a while

I believe it is like this in a lot of the 70.3 races now.  Definitely the ones on the same day as ironman anyway.

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But depending on the race, category numbers don't mean much.  As some ag's get split into multiple waves anyway.  Even in 70.3's.  Don't wanna bonk chasing down someone who start 4+ minutes ahead of you.

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Western Sydney 70.3 M40-44 and M45-49 quite often get split into A-K, L-Z.

I find a quite a few of the womens AGs get combined. Or Forbes Oly which was so small that all of us (male and female) started at once, it was like a PTC club race!

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Cat Lady, we need an update...did you contact TQ to clarify?

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