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FatPom

Hydration set up for P3

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So i have my P3 (yay), still getting the front end dialled in on the turbo and various other fiddlings.  I am wondering about hydration set ups, I sold my last TT bike about 18mths ago and that was hardly cutting edge in this regard, so I don't have much of a clue about the best set up.  I have bottle bosses on the down tube and one above the BB area (I assume is for a P4 type bottle). I also have a Fizik Mistica saddle which comes with clamp and fixings for a BTS set up.

I read the following and it would seem that BTA bottle and a BTS is the best combo?  I've never used a down tube aero bottle, so not sure how easy they are to fill etc?  My knackered shoulders may make a BTS bottle a bit hard to reach but i could try it without incurring any expense.

http://mx.cervelo.com/en/engineering/ask-the-engineers/hydration-and-aerodynamics.html

 

Forgot to add. I will be using this for TTs also, which over are run under CTT regs, so no BTA allowed but for the above question, assume tri.

have at itB)

Edited by FatPom

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I have a P2. I have the xlab dual bottle setup behind the seat and the xlab Torpedo BTA. xlab make a special BTS mount for the Cervelo seat post mount points. I do not have any bottles on the frame.

I find the advantage of the torpedo over a standard bottle is that I sip regularly from the straw and do not have to sit up to take a drink. 

Have a look at the set up that xlab recommend.

https://www.xlab-usa.com/aerodynamics.html

There are a number of other companies that make similar products. 

 

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Thanks Ironnerd B)

 

I've used a BTA set up before (X-Lab Torpedo cage but regular bottle) but it was way old and and pretty worn so I gave it away when I sold the TT bike.  I will look at their latest offering.  I like the BTA and found it easy to get on with.

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Don't get the xlab Cervelo stuff it's over priced and not as aero. You want a cage tucked in under your seat and the best way to achieve that is with good old zip ties. I drilled as small hole at the back of my adamo seat so there are zip ties on either side attached to the railings and on in the middle. It's a great setup and doesn't move at all, I use it for my spares. 

Aero bottles down tube is great for TT but no good for triathlons. So I have a BTA and two standard bottles seat and down tube. That's more than enough even for Ironman distance. 

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Thanks Rog.  The saddle I have is a weird design underneath, in that the rails don't extend to the rear of the seat as that space is taken up with the clamp fixing point (I think it's the same as the Tritone saddle).  I will have a play around.

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I use a Torpedo on my P2, with Garmin mount, works really well. I generally only carry 1 bottle for a 70.3, I don't like pissing around with bottles at the rear. I have a cage on the seatpost for spares (zip tied like Rog).

 

DSC_0517-1024x681.jpg

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19 hours ago, Rog said:

CD1E0E62-A518-4681-AFC6-D6FD0B316BF3.jpg

Where are the holes u drilled rog?

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Just one hole but it's not visible on the photo above. It's at the rear of the saddle so I can route a cable tie in the middle. It gives the setup a bit more stability as its not just the zip ties pulling the cage to either side. 

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I think Crowie uses zip ties, good enough for him, good enough for me!

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I run xlab bta and the Cervelo xlab delta 300 bts. I have a crack in my seatpost and have another one ready to install but would like a P5 seatpost so I can use the xlab delta sonic.

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I agree with Rog's comment about the xlab stuff being overpriced. They must grind down diamonds for the carbon fibre and use gold screws for the price they charge ;).

This is what Cervelo has to say on aerodynamics and bottle position:

http://mx.cervelo.com/en/engineering/ask-the-engineers/hydration-and-aerodynamics.html

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1 hour ago, Ironnerd said:

I agree with Rog's comment about the xlab stuff being overpriced. They must grind down diamonds for the carbon fibre and use gold screws for the price they charge ;).

This is what Cervelo has to say on aerodynamics and bottle position:

http://mx.cervelo.com/en/engineering/ask-the-engineers/hydration-and-aerodynamics.html

It's ridiuclous. Almost $200 for what is pretty much a water bottle and cage.

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Slight update and a question:

I have now fitted a bottle cage the to down tube and a Gorilla cage to the bracket that comes with my Fizik saddle. The rear cage is for spares. It's not as tight as Rog's set up but is convenient to take the whole shebang ond off depending whether it's a tri or TT set up.  Up front I have an XLab BTA mount  for a regulat bottle, it's the one with the Garmin mount on top (which i don't need).  This mount comes on and off in a few seconds which is handy.

Anyway, pretty happy with all that so far, just trying to locate a small spares bottle for the rear, which exist but are out of stock every where I look right now, no big deal.

All this got me thinking about what folks do on race day for HIM and above.  Why is there a need for two bottles at all?  Let's say you are going for a stragegy of gels (maybe a bar or two), why wouldn't you pick up a sports drink bottle at an aid station, drink that then pick up a water at the next one, repeat etc? Do people carry two in case they miss one at a station?

I can see if you have a concentrated bottle of liquid nutrition how you might be just going for water but I can't imagine being able to drink two bottles between stations.  Is the water needed for absorption?

 

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Depends on the race , eg how hot and how far apart the Aids stations are

at Kona u can easily drink two bottles between stations as its hot and it can be a pretty big gap between AS espually going into the breeze

but here in oz u should be able to get away with two biddon holders if your carry concentrate drink and one for water

if u are just useing gels then u could get away with one between the bars or on down tube just for water

 

i still get totally gobsmacked by the amount of crap half the field carry around an IM course , 95% of which will never be needed

cheers

ivp

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On 29/03/2017 at 10:00 AM, zed said:

 

 

Edited by Turts

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On 29/03/2017 at 9:49 AM, Rog said:

CD1E0E62-A518-4681-AFC6-D6FD0B316BF3.jpg

That extra sticky-outy bit at the back of your saddle doesnt look comfy. Or is it meant to encourage you to stay aero?

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51 minutes ago, surfer101 said:

You mean the saucepan handle in the background?

Yep. But my versions funnier! (Or at least i thought so. Could be the concussion talking though.......)

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3 hours ago, FatPom said:

Slight update and a question:

...

All this got me thinking about what folks do on race day for HIM and above.  Why is there a need for two bottles at all?  Let's say you are going for a stragegy of gels (maybe a bar or two), why wouldn't you pick up a sports drink bottle at an aid station, drink that then pick up a water at the next one, repeat etc? Do people carry two in case they miss one at a station?

 

BTA is faster than without.  And the bottle at the rear can also be faster than without.  They need to be up close near your bum so a short saddle.
I'm not a fan of frame bottles due to drag.  
Where are you spares (if any?).  And going to one bottle rule is a bit of a gamble IMO, drop one and sunk.  

Sub question.  Why do IT riders run 2 bottles...  seems even for sprints... (not watched a race for a few years so I could be old (fake) news)

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6 minutes ago, Mjainoz said:

BTA is faster than without.  And the bottle at the rear can also be faster than without.  They need to be up close near your bum so a short saddle.
I'm not a fan of frame bottles due to drag.  
Where are you spares (if any?).  And going to one bottle rule is a bit of a gamble IMO, drop one and sunk.  

Sub question.  Why do IT riders run 2 bottles...  seems even for sprints... (not watched a race for a few years so I could be old (fake) news)

The rear bottle is for spares (as above). I could get it closer with some Rog type DIY stuff but not 100% that I'm keeping this saddle, so it'll stay where it is for now. I pretty limited ROM in my shoulders, particularly my right side, so reaching back for drinking ain't happening.  In a TT, the whole bracket comes off in a couple of mins and the spares bundle will be under the saddle  (less stuff for a TT).

BTA would only be for tri as they are not allowed in a TT. I don't really have a plan of one way or the other, just thinking out loud really about why a 1 bottle set up would/wouldn't work.

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You need 2 bottles. 

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Been playing around with BTA options. I have a XLab Kompact 

https://www.xlab-usa.com/torpedo-kompact-100.html

I don't need the plastic Garmin mount cage thingy, so I can just use the supplied cage and bracket and it worked ok on some rides. The top edge of the bottle just touches my wrists in the aero bars, no biggie really.

Tonight I fiddled around with some options:

Zip tying the cage directly to the aero bars which seemed to work well but yet to be tested on our potholed goat tracks.

The other thing I noticed is that on the bracket I have an option to bring the bottle more rearward by using other holes, so that the back end of it is more or less covering the stem. That seems fine also but leaves a big gap between my hand and the front of the bottle.  Either position seems fine to drink from.

The reason I didn't go with zip ties straight away is that I've tried before and my bars were always too wide. I must be narrower these days!

Questions is:  Is it better to have the bottle as forward as possible to help air flow or rear as possible to keep the weight back?

Yes I have a lot of time on my hands, yeas I'm sure none of it matters for my ability:lol:  Just curious. 

Edited by FatPom

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What ever is more comfy and has less chance to fall out 

personally I'd have it the further back option

handling is better than saveing .000000000000000046 of a second over 180k

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