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dazmuzza

Ideal 70.3 training preparation and training strategy: advice sought

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Hi Trannies. I’m a relative newbie on the forum and have been following a number of discussions with interest.

I tried to find an existing thread which answered my queries, but couldn’t exactly get what I’m after. Apologies if there is one and it slipped by my searching!

Scenario

So I’m hoping for some more experienced advice for an upcoming race.

I’m planning ahead for my third 70.3 at the Sunny Coast in 2017 and trying to figure out a plan of attack. In this event my A goal is sub 5 hours and B goal is as close to 5 as possible.

I’ve raced at this event previously in a time of 5:17 (~38 min swim, ~2:35 bike, ~1:58 run + transitions etc). For this I trained 6 days a week on a beginner program, cut all alcohol and dropped 10kg. Sessions were roughly: Ride 4 times per week, swim twice a week and run 2-3 times a week. I did this for about 6 months.

I’d imagine I’d do something similar again, however this is complicated by the fact that I have eardrum surgery mid-April which will mean probably no swimming for up to two months.

Current regime

Not exactly fit, but just did Tweed Coast Enduro (in a terrible time, but completed nonetheless). Annoyingly overweight due to fondness for beer but will remove from diet starting April.

  • Already ride two-three times a week with one windtrainer coached session – around 150-200k weekly.
  • Swim – once a week (will increase to twice a week and training with a squad).
  • Run – run about 15-20km a week but unfocused – mostly tempo speed running.

Realise I will have to change my schedule drastically to get ready for Sunny Coast.

Questions

My questions are (given the above scenario and regime)

  1. What is generally considered the ideal training program in terms of duration leading up to a 70.3? (eg. 8 weeks, 12 weeks)
  2. I’m probably going to get a plan (either something off training peaks [Matt Fitzgerald?] though Sansego.com plans look interesting). Something like a beginner progressing to intermediate plan. Has anyone had personal experience with a plans that works considering my goals and my current regime? (Would love a coach, but $$$ can’t stretch as I’m looking to buy a new TT bike).
  3. Am I better to continue doing consistent but not exactly focused training until late June with an aim on dropping weight and getting fit before progressing into dedicated training?

Any expert advice appreciated!

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9 minutes ago, dazmuzza said:

Hi Trannies. I’m a relative newbie on the forum and have been following a number of discussions with interest.

I tried to find an existing thread which answered my queries, but couldn’t exactly get what I’m after. Apologies if there is one and it slipped by my searching!

Scenario

So I’m hoping for some more experienced advice for an upcoming race.

I’m planning ahead for my third 70.3 at the Sunny Coast in 2017 and trying to figure out a plan of attack. In this event my A goal is sub 5 hours and B goal is as close to 5 as possible.

I’ve raced at this event previously in a time of 5:17 (~38 min swim, ~2:35 bike, ~1:58 run + transitions etc). For this I trained 6 days a week on a beginner program, cut all alcohol and dropped 10kg. Sessions were roughly: Ride 4 times per week, swim twice a week and run 2-3 times a week. I did this for about 6 months.

I’d imagine I’d do something similar again, however this is complicated by the fact that I have eardrum surgery mid-April which will mean probably no swimming for up to two months.

Current regime

Not exactly fit, but just did Tweed Coast Enduro (in a terrible time, but completed nonetheless). Annoyingly overweight due to fondness for beer but will remove from diet starting April.

  • Already ride two-three times a week with one windtrainer coached session – around 150-200k weekly.
  • Swim – once a week (will increase to twice a week and training with a squad).
  • Run – run about 15-20km a week but unfocused – mostly tempo speed running.

Realise I will have to change my schedule drastically to get ready for Sunny Coast.

Questions

My questions are (given the above scenario and regime)

  1. What is generally considered the ideal training program in terms of duration leading up to a 70.3? (eg. 8 weeks, 12 weeks)
  2. I’m probably going to get a plan (either something off training peaks [Matt Fitzgerald?] though Sansego.com plans look interesting). Something like a beginner progressing to intermediate plan. Has anyone had personal experience with a plans that works considering my goals and my current regime? (Would love a coach, but $$$ can’t stretch as I’m looking to buy a new TT bike).
  3. Am I better to continue doing consistent but not exactly focused training until late June with an aim on dropping weight and getting fit before progressing into dedicated training?

Any expert advice appreciated!

In my honest opinion...

 

The longer you give any plan, the better result you're going to get..

 

Where I find a lot of athletes go wrong is that they don't give any 1 program the chance to work for them.

 

The right plan will get you fit, help you drop the weight whilst working towards the bigger picture later in the year.  You will go through different stages on training, from strength, speed, base & endurance (not in that particular order) which will make your body more durable for race specific training closer to the race.

 

** FYI, I'm not expert.. just have some experience in this area**

Edited by Facta
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why do you need a new bike?  if it's all about the engine it would probably be worth putting the money towards a good coach.  Not that I'm opposed to new bikes, but in the scheme of things, if you use a coach for the build to sunnycoast, the information you will get from them will last a lifetime.

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Just now, Cat Lady said:

why do you need a new bike?  if it's all about the engine it would probably be worth putting the money towards a good coach.  Not that I'm opposed to new bikes, but in the scheme of things, if you use a coach for the build to sunnycoast, the information you will get from them will last a lifetime.

I don't have a TT bike at the moment, having sold my previous one in 2015. However, I'll have a think on this. Have you any recommendations coach wise?

 

24 minutes ago, Facta said:

The right plan will get you fit, help you drop the weight whilst working towards the bigger picture later in the year.  You will go through different stages on training, from strength, speed, base & endurance (not in that particular order) which will make your body more durable for race specific training closer to the race.

I was considering a 20 week plan, but the annoying thing is that I pretty much won't be able to swim for some months due to surgery. I guess I could replace pool sessions with some dedicated gym workouts/land-based swimming exercises.

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26 minutes ago, dazmuzza said:

I don't have a TT bike at the moment, having sold my previous one in 2015. However, I'll have a think on this. Have you any recommendations coach wise?

 

I was considering a 20 week plan, but the annoying thing is that I pretty much won't be able to swim for some months due to surgery. I guess I could replace pool sessions with some dedicated gym workouts/land-based swimming exercises.

Write down what you are looking for in a coach - Do you need face to face, some regular contact or are you purely self motivated and purely need a plan with some guidance here and there? - This will give you a good idea of the direction you go in looking for the right coach

Do some research on what different coaches offer, contact a few to find the best fit.

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Guest FFF1077

MKC on Facebook. 

Search for that. 

 

Do what he suggests. 

Too easy. Good luck 

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1 hour ago, dazmuzza said:

38 min swim,

  • Swim – once a week (will increase to twice a week and training with a squad).

There's your problem right there.

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Just now, Tyno said:

There's your problem right there.

Sorry, that was confusing- when I did the 38 minute swim, I was swimming twice a week with a squad. I'm currently only doing once per week. But yes, point noted - I really need to swim more and will be provided my ear doesn't explode again :)

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3 hours ago, dazmuzza said:

 

Current regime

Not exactly fit, but just did Tweed Coast Enduro (in a terrible time, but completed nonetheless). Annoyingly overweight due to fondness for beer but will remove from diet starting April.

  • Already ride two-three times a week with one windtrainer coached session – around 150-200k weekly.
  • Swim – once a week (will increase to twice a week and training with a squad).
  • Run – run about 15-20km a week but unfocused – mostly tempo speed running.

Realise I will have to change my schedule drastically to get ready for Sunny Coast.

Questions

My questions are (given the above scenario and regime)

  1. What is generally considered the ideal training program in terms of duration leading up to a 70.3? (eg. 8 weeks, 12 weeks)
  2. I’m probably going to get a plan (either something off training peaks [Matt Fitzgerald?] though Sansego.com plans look interesting). Something like a beginner progressing to intermediate plan. Has anyone had personal experience with a plans that works considering my goals and my current regime? (Would love a coach, but $$$ can’t stretch as I’m looking to buy a new TT bike).
  3. Am I better to continue doing consistent but not exactly focused training until late June with an aim on dropping weight and getting fit before progressing into dedicated training?

Personally, with a 1.58 for your run, I would focus on that. You can easily knock off 15 minutes by following a more specific 70.3 run program. You can probably drop a bike session? Personally I find people doing low volume tend to ride too much and not run enough. 20km isn't nearly enough especially mostly tempo work. You are planning on doing a maximum of 7 sessions a week - 2S, 3B, 2R, I would, at least for a chunk of time, do 2S, 1B, 4R. Get your run sorted out, at least 40km a week. And you can do a large chunk of that at easy pace, so you don't get fatigued (physically & mentally) and injured. My run schedule is roughly:

Sun - long easy run - 15 - 22km, conversational pace

Tue - squad - 6km intervals, warm up + 400m x 12 or 1km repeats etc

Thurs - 10 - 14km easy. 

Sat - brick run  7 - 12km, various pace, usually close to 70.3

I will vary that depending on how I feel e.g I might chuck in 5km on the Friday, Thursday I may do a tempo run, but the key is getting the volume in,. If you do a lot of it easy pace, you can get in 50kms+ no problem. It's hard to rationalise how running easy can make you run fast, but it works, I was injured for 6 weeks and adopted the 80/20 running philosophy, 80% easy, 20% hard. I had no choice as I couldn't push it. I did a sprint and ran my 2nd fastest sprint 5km, despite not running any faster than 5min/km in training for the previous month and mostly 5.30 min/km. But I was running 50km+. I'm doing Busso in may so will be interesting to see how I go in the run with the change in run training.

 

Figure out your training pace using this widely used calc:

https://runsmartproject.com/calculator/

And stick to those paces in training. A lot of people do the easy too hard and the hard too easy and end up running in a bit of a "grey" zone. And look at losing a bit if weight if you need to, cut down/lay off the grog 8 weeks before, watch what you eat and the weight will fall off you. Alcohol is a killer for weight gain.

Edited by zed
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Zed the dude is fat and unfit. 

You are asking him to go from 20km a week to a min of 38 max of 54 whilst doing some intensity. You're gonna break the guy.

 

Interesting that Facta says give one plan enough time. It's very similar to what AP harps on about. I wonder what these two guys have in common to be dishing out the same advice......

 

Dazmuzza - My two tips, be consistent in your training and slow the training down. If you do the second one you'll get the first one.

Edited by prizna
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17 minutes ago, prizna said:

Zed the dude is fat and unfit. 

You are asking him to go from 20km a week to a min of 38 max of 54 whilst doing some intensity. You're gonna break the guy.

 

Interesting that Facta says give one plan enough time. It's very similar to what AP harps on about. I wonder what these two guys have in common to be dishing out the same advice......

 

Dazmuzza - My two tips, be consistent in your training and slow the training down. If you do the second one you'll get the first one.

ha ha I missed the fat and unfit bit. But still he can up his run volume considerably without too much risk of injury by running much slower. I don't mean going from 20 to 50 in a week, but perhaps ramp it up over 3 - 4 weeks. 

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You need to run more. Try and run 5-6 times a week, all easy. For your goals you need no intensity on the run whatsoever.  Google the BarryP program and follow that. Your bike is ok, keep doing what you were doing. Swim needs work, if you're going to swim twice a week I would listen to the Tower26 podcast. Also use the workouts they give in there. I went from swimming 4 times a week at one pace, to two times per week following their workouts and went from a 35 min to a 32 min 70.3 swim

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Where are you based?  I'm guessing northern NSW or gold coast, but a bit more info will help us narrow down our coaching recommendations for you. Training with a good crew with a face to face coach can make a big difference.

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Hey all - yep, fat and unfit :) though I have been used to running high volumes before when I was a essentially marathon training...then discovered triathlon. I do focus on the bike as I enjoy it the most, but will probably drop down the volume this time to get that run going again. 

 

1 hour ago, -H- said:

Where are you based?  I'm guessing northern NSW or gold coast, but a bit more info will help us narrow down our coaching recommendations for you. Training with a good crew with a face to face coach can make a big difference.

I'm in Brissy. 

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11 hours ago, prizna said:

Zed the dude is fat and unfit. 

You are asking him to go from 20km a week to a min of 38 max of 54 whilst doing some intensity. You're gonna break the guy.

 

Interesting that Facta says give one plan enough time. It's very similar to what AP harps on about. I wonder what these two guys have in common to be dishing out the same advice......

 

Dazmuzza - My two tips, be consistent in your training and slow the training down. If you do the second one you'll get the first one.

Maybe they are both experienced in triathlon and know how results come.  

 

I think you'll find most guys who find themselves at the pointy end would have no idea what a 12 week build looks like.  They just work with their coach year round.

 

I understand this isn't an affordable option for some.

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Run more

you should be able to get 20 mins off that run time , but u have to reamain bike fit so u arnt smashed going onto the run

better off focusing on a 20 min better orun than a 3-4 min better swim

 

as far as coach goes I'd get onto the mkc 16 week plan. , lots of slow stuff in the program so it won't break you

google matt koorey or PM mjk on here

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19 hours ago, dazmuzza said:

I don't have a TT bike at the moment, having sold my previous one in 2015. However, I'll have a think on this. Have you any recommendations coach wise?

 

I was considering a 20 week plan, but the annoying thing is that I pretty much won't be able to swim for some months due to surgery. I guess I could replace pool sessions with some dedicated gym workouts/land-based swimming exercises.

 http://www.mattkoorey.com/  did a good video the other day about triathletes and when to start programs.  long story short, those at the pointy end train year round and don't go through the eternal xxx week programme, race, then go to pot - do a xxx week program, race, then go to pot etc etc. 

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Thanks all - very much appreciated. Matt Koorey seems to be a popular choice. I'll go and have a snoop around what he offers coaching wise. 

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Nothing wrong with getting a coach or a program, but you can probably realise your goals without having to fork out any extra $$, especially considering you have some pretty obvious flaws with your current training program i.e run volume. 

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I wouldn't bother with a new bike, the gains per $ are low. Other things you could do that would potentially give better value

  1. bike fit
  2. clothing choice/helmet
  3. wheel choice/tyre choice
  4. get a power meter and use it with your program
  5. coach

On the running there is some good advice

  1. not running consequative days for recovery/injury prevention
  2. splitting long run into two runs in day again around injury prevention. this can be a good way to increase distance but keep focus on form

If you do get a coach listen and don't double guess the coach

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Swim 2-3 times a week before ear surgery. How long out for swimming post op?

Pretty simple, swim ride and run 3 sessions of each a week ideally.

Start doing brick session like swim, bike and bike run, you only need to run 4-5ks off a 2hr bike.

Build up to one long run per week 10-15ks. One speed seesion and a brick session. 

I don't think you need to do 40k of running a,week for a half IM. 20-25ks is plenty, unless you want to get injured. 

AP is an awesome coach and he will have you confident leading into the race.

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Seriously 

u need to run more than 25k a week if u want to go sub 5. ( unless it's challange Melbourne)

 

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1 hour ago, ironpo said:

Seriously 

u need to run more than 25k a week if u want to go sub 5. ( unless it's challange Melbourne)

 

I go sub 5 on 25km running per week (or sometimes less). Have never done Challenge Melbourne though.

Probs not ideal, just injury management for me - most people could and should run a lot more.

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18 hours ago, dazmuzza said:

Thanks all - very much appreciated. Matt Koorey seems to be a popular choice. I'll go and have a snoop around what he offers coaching wise. 

Yeah 

Great guy. Straight forward approach. Totally approachable, don't be shy. Can't go wrong as long as you do as he suggests and asks. 

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10 hours ago, -H- said:

I go sub 5 on 25km running per week (or sometimes less). Have never done Challenge Melbourne though.

Probs not ideal, just injury management for me - most people could and should run a lot more.

Yes but u have a HUGE base, that's what gets u through , you are also a very experienced and smart racer

pretty sure the OP is newish to the sport so he need endurance and even more so speed endurance in his legs

 

to completely condredict myself , it looks like I'm gunna be doing ultraman oz on not too many runs longer than 3 hrs since UM Hawaii in nov .

we are trying not to overdo it for this build espually seeing I'm doing IMOZ 5 days before UMOZ

saving it all for a serious crack at Um Hawaii in nov 17

I've done one 4.5hr run about 6 weeks ago , I'm hoping again to run sub 8hrs and I'm thinking my huge base and sheer mongrel will get me through

i am hopeing to get a triple run done next week

so 2hrs morn

2hrs lunch 

2hrs 4pm

keep the pace same

the rest will be just 2 to 3 hr runs done  after long rides 

 

 

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23 hours ago, ironpo said:

Yes but u have a HUGE base, that's what gets u through , you are also a very experienced and smart racer

pretty sure the OP is newish to the sport so he need endurance and even more so speed endurance in his legs

 

to completely condredict myself , it looks like I'm gunna be doing ultraman oz on not too many runs longer than 3 hrs since UM Hawaii in nov .

we are trying not to overdo it for this build espually seeing I'm doing IMOZ 5 days before UMOZ

saving it all for a serious crack at Um Hawaii in nov 17

I've done one 4.5hr run about 6 weeks ago , I'm hoping again to run sub 8hrs and I'm thinking my huge base and sheer mongrel will get me through

i am hopeing to get a triple run done next week

so 2hrs morn

2hrs lunch 

2hrs 4pm

keep the pace same

the rest will be just 2 to 3 hr runs done  after long rides 

 

 

You are a machine pure and simple! 

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Definitely can recommend Chris Hanrahan from pb3 tri - worked with him for a 16 week program for Busso 70.3 in Dec. I had flatlined at 5 hrs 10 for 3 consecutive halves and Chris helped me so much in being very specific and consistent in every session. He set the program thru training peaks and I trusted and followed the plan. 14 min PB and an age group win. 

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My 2 cents.

Ideally 3 swims, rides and runs per week (possibly 4 runs).

Join a swim squad and you'll get faster simply by swimming more and swimming harder.

Bike: Intervals, hills and long ride. 1 interval session per week ie 15 min warmup, then 5 x 6 minute efforts, couple min recovery after each,  10 min cool down. Increase this if you can to a 90 minute session and intervals gradually increasing to up to 20 minutes at a time ie 15 min warmup, 3 x 20 min. I'm a big fan of Trainerroad and what they have to offer. Second ride can be another hour in the hills and long ride on the weekend at comfortable pace up to 110 km, any more is junk.

Run: Easy running and gradually build weekly distance up to at least 40 km, once running 40 km per week comfortably you can throw in some intervals one day per week, join a running or Tri squad that does these. Weekly long run building to 22 km or 2 hours. In the last 6-8 weeks thrown in a run off the bike building from 3 km  up to 10km. 

Don't forget to taper and start a couple of weeks before your race.

Nutrition, train with it over the last 6-8 weeks. Work out what you can tolerate typically anywhere between 50-80 g carbohydrates per hour. Make sure you know what they are offering on race day and train with that as well.

Good luck.

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On 24/03/2017 at 1:01 PM, zed said:

Nothing wrong with getting a coach or a program, but you can probably realise your goals without having to fork out any extra $$, especially considering you have some pretty obvious flaws with your current training program i.e run volume. 

Run Volume may not be the correct answer.. knowing when and how to run will make more difference

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