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Peter

What's with so many drownings? Nsw

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Just saw another guy drowned today in the blue mountains.

 

17 now in nsw in the last fortnight.

 

24 country wide.

 

Crazy.

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We have generations & nationalities whose survival instincts and outdoor skills are so blunted, they should not be allowed out of the house.

 

Inconvenient truth I'm afraid.

 

Actually, scratch that. I just remember some of them jerry-rig gas bottles to heaters inside their house & blow themselves to Hell.

Edited by ComfortablyNumb
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Not to be callous, but signs like these are usually there for a reason

 

http://forums.transitions.org.au/index.php?showtopic=71536#entry1229008

 

Submerged rocks, deep holes, watch your children etc.

 

See in the 60s/70s/80s we knew this stuff, and did a reccy on any swimming hole we were about to launch into from height BEFORE doing so.

 

We saved our eldest from drowning twice as a toddler by watching her near water ALL THE FRICKIN TIME.

 

People today are just dumb as sh*t in the natural world, probably because they don't get out in enough.

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Â

See in the 60s/70s/80s we knew this stuff, and did a reccy on any swimming hole we were about to launch into from height BEFORE doing so.

Â

We saved our eldest from drowning twice as a toddler by watching her near water ALL THE FRICKIN TIME.

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People today are just dumb as sh*t in the natural world, probably because they don't get out in enough.

Snap. 70,80,90's

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We had the toddler of a foreign PhD student drown here in a concrete lined 'creek' 2m wide, 1m deep right in the main park in the middle of town recently.

 

Parents had entrusted her to the supervision of a 10 YEAR OLD RELATIVE FROM O/S!

 

She was in the water 20mins before anyone noticed.

 

FFS

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I heard something the other day about lifesavers training refugees in water safety.

Were dumbfounded that when they lost their footing, their response wasnt even to put their feet down again

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For all the crying about 'helicopter parenting' the reason all these toddlers and kids are dying is simply lack of supervision. FFS get your head out of your phone and watch your kids.

 

The one at Maroubra really sh!ts me. Why the hell was a 14 year old kid, I'll guess with little swimming ability, out in sloppy seas at 8.30 at night well after the lifeguards have packed up? That was a drowning just waiting to happen.

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We have generations & nationalities whose survival instincts and outdoor skills are so blunted, they should not be allowed out of the house.

 

Inconvenient truth I'm afraid.

 

Actually, scratch that. I just remember some of them jerry-rig gas bottles to heaters inside their house & blow themselves to Hell.

Maybe there should be a simple survival test (you know, something like a live electrical cable and with an insulated glove beside it, and the person is told to move the cable) before you are allowed to breed.

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I've recently been doing some work that revolves around drowning prevention/rescue. The statistics are insane, over 1000 people a day die from drowning. The numbers are skewed between developed countries and others of course.

 

I am amazed, even in the UK about how many younger parents do not have an emphasis on teaching their kids to swim, mainly because a lot of them can't swim themselves.

 

We've taken ours to Water Babies ever since she was 10 weeks old. Costs a fortune (£160 every 10 wks) but for us, it's not even a decision on whether it's worth it.

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For all the crying about 'helicopter parenting' the reason all these toddlers and kids are dying is simply lack of supervision. FFS get your head out of your phone and watch your kids.

ÃÂ

The one at Maroubra really sh!ts me. Why the hell was a 14 year old kid, I'll guess with little swimming ability, out in sloppy seas at 8.30 at night well after the lifeguards have packed up? That was a drowning just waiting to happen.

Only thing with the phone thing is it's very geographic Central - 17 of 22 in Nsw but agree with you. Though in theory the spread should be more even State wise.

 

Just spent a week or so on a beach and whilst my kids are old and I don't take my phone to the beach, plenty do and ignore their kids.

Edited by Oompa Loompa

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I pulled a 4 year old out of the pool last week. There were about 30 people in the pol at the time. . I knew he was going to get into trouble as he started getting "kangaroo eyes in the lights" look. Watching and seeing your kids are 2 different things. The father thanked me.

 

FM

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Water safety/competency & learn to swim should be compulsory.

 

Parents who don't have their children taught to swim can go to the same corner as the anti-vaxxers IMHO.

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Water safety/competency & learn to swim should be compulsory.

 

Parents who don't have their children taught to swim can go to the same corner as the anti-vaxxers IMHO.

It is very expensive to teach kids to swim.

 

I pay $23 for 20 minutes once a week. Not to mention the time to drive there and back.

 

I think it's well worth it, but not everyone does.

 

But if you have a pool, you are dumb not teaching a kid to swim

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I currently have a job going where the clients have a survival swim school they run from there house for new babies toddlers up to about 8 year olds.

Its intense think its 15 min 5 days a week for 6 weeks or so the kids scream but by the end of it they throw them in the water with clothes on they just roll over and float on there back until you pick them up.!

Its amazing to see .

My kids all swim now but if I didnt have a pool or was going to do the squad thing for them id throw them in that for sure.

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I wonder how many of the 5 could have prevented these...

 

Fence the pool

Shut the gate

Teach your kids how to swim - it's great

Supervise, watch your mate

Learn how to resuscitate

 

 

We must never lose sight of those. They work and they are important.

 

As for such a large amount in NSW, such a large population. But still over that I'd say.

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just bought a place down at Cape Woolamai - specifically because of easy access to a safe beach but with a surf beach close by for when the boy 6 gets older/stronger/better. He just started nippers. I cant stand to watch some of the inattention of parents and the complete lack of respect/knowledge for the power of the rip/waves. Dont get me started on inattention!!

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It is very expensive to teach kids to swim.

 

I pay $23 for 20 minutes once a week. Not to mention the time to drive there and back.

 

I think it's well worth it, but not everyone does.

 

But if you have a pool, you are dumb not teaching a kid to swim

Why don't you save the $23 and teach her yourself?

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Why don't you save the $23 and teach her yourself?

Kids don't listen to parents because we don't know.. haha.

I tried to get my eldest to swim with me it was like blood from a stone. threw him squad no worries.

Was trying to teach him to surf what would I know! Paid for surf groms every week loved it did everything they said!

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Kids don't listen to parents because we don't know.. haha.

I tried to get my eldest to swim with me it was like blood from a stone. threw him squad no worries.

Was trying to teach him to surf what would I know! Paid for surf groms every week loved it did everything they said!

 

^^^^ This

 

I'm about to get my daughter skateboard lessons.

 

My wife also mentioned last night, swimming lessons should be re-introduced at schools.

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It is very expensive to teach kids to swim.

 

I pay $23 for 20 minutes once a week. Not to mention the time to drive there and back.

 

I think it's well worth it, but not everyone does.

 

But if you have a pool, you are dumb not teaching a kid to swim

$23 once a week. That's a packet of fags.

 

Sorry kids.

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Looking at it from the economic perspective rather than the human perspective, you won't get much change, if any from $5k for a funeral. A few $23 a week there.

 

But I get what you're saying.

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It's all the costs of being a parent, you can't afford it, don't have them.

 

Diamonds is right, baby bonus should have been vouchers for swimming lessons. Not a voucher to Harvey Norman.

 

We had swimming lessons at school, but I was already swimming by then anyway.

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Teach them to swim, watch them carefully, don't let them swim where it's dangerous - hardly rocket science.

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My wife is a primary school teacher and she is always shocked at the amount of kids (5 - 10 year olds) that can't swim.

 

Her school still has intensive swim lessons each year - I think they do 90 mins per day, everyday for 4 weeks in Feb/March.

 

There are a lot of parents who really don't give a shit about the things/skills/care that their kids need. Wife has seen lots of kids over the years who aren't fed properly (or live on biscuits and coke), who aren't given warm clothes to wear in the winter, or turn up to school in 40 degree days in summer in tracksuits/jumpers because they've either dressed themselves or parents don't give two hoots about whether their kids are looked after. Its much more common than you would ever think. She's had kids walk 4 kms to school cause mummy 'is asleep', or turn up with no food, or wear the same clothing for days/weeks, have nits or other minor medical issues that parents can't be bothered to sort out. ..... its sad.

 

If you can't get parents to feed their kids its going to be difficult to get them to pay for swimming lessons (or even to turn up).

 

As with everything, it seems that 'schools should do it' is the inevitable answer to the swimming thing. My wife is no longer a teacher, but a counsellor, child carer, purchaser of lunches, organiser of clothing, sex education specialist, stranger danger advisor, alcohol educator, health and diet coach .... and so on ..... why not add swimming to all the other stuff teachers do....??.

 

On the swimming front, we pay about $16 for a half hour swim lesson once a week for out little bloke (not yet 3) and our 6 month old will be starting in a couple of weeks time. We also take them to the pool (or beach) for extra time in the water once very week or so. As they say, learning to swim is a skill they will have for the rest of their lives, so its worth it.

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Why don't you save the $23 and teach her yourself?

 

I take her to willy beach and around to a mates pool but the stuff she has learn't from the swim school is impressive.

 

For example she (4) can now fall into a pool and flip onto her back and kick to the side and get out. All without help.

 

They express no goggles at all as kids that accidentally fall into a pool freak out if they have no goggles on.

 

3 months ago she needed bubbles. She now can sort of dog paddle. But the program is so much better than I could do at this point.

 

I'm sure there will be a time when we both go and do laps together. And I'll continue that until she beats me and then I'll have to retire.

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Same here Peter

 

My young bloke missed lessons for about a year (on and off) because of recurrent ear infections.... we were worried when at age 2 1/2 he couldn't really swim much

 

In 3 months of weekly lessons he can now paddle around the pool without help, jump in and get to the side, blow bubbles etc. He learned more in 3 months of structured lessons than the previous year with parents.

 

I think kids learn a lot from small groups - they copy each other, see other kids doing things and want to do that as well.... plus they se how various apparatus is used and want to play with the 'toys' that the instructor brings.

 

We will definitely keep up weekly swim lessons, probably for years to come.

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^^^^ This

 

I'm about to get my daughter skateboard lessons.

 

My wife also mentioned last night, swimming lessons should be re-introduced at schools.

Both my kids have swim at school, primary and high. State schools of course. At primary the pool is outdoors so they only swim 1st and 4th term. My son hated it cause he was one of the better ones in his class so they got harder stuff to do. The others just got to paddle around and play he reckoned while he was doing laps. Daughter in high school also did swimming, the school has a heated indoor pool.

 

What worries me is that they both were in the top end for their swimming abilities. My kids swim ok, but they're not that great. Which tells me there are a lot of kids who could get into trouble very easily.

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How many of the recent spate were adults tho? Who seemed to have basic skills but got into trouble anywy? By doing stupid things?

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Many adults are no better.

 

I think we (huge generalisation, but this is a triathlon forum so generally middle/upper class people who are active and spend a significant time doing recreational/outdoorsy things) forget that not everyone is the same.

 

I used to spend summers as a clubbie lifeguard on the local beach - this we pre-kids when I had lots of spare time. I would often volunteer to do patrol on Boxing Day/Australia Day and other school holiday times when many families were away - I had no kids and no reason to be sitting around home all day ...

 

Anyway, in the school hol's we had a LOT of people from overseas, or western Sydney or regional Australia who would come to the beaches for holidays.... even in very mild/mundane conditions people would get into trouble.... just stupid things like people who had poor swimming abilities deciding to go into the water on secluded sections of beach.... people have no idea of the power of the sea.

 

on one occasion we saved the same guy TWICE on the same patch of beach - and I don't mean we paddled out cause he was just outside the flags ..... this guy was a few hundred metres off the beach and maybe a few moments from being dead ...

 

I've also seen it in my wife's family. Her (English) relo's would come visit and just launch themselves into the sea anywhere and anywhere with no thought of their own safety - I'd bet none of them could swim 100 metres without stopping to rest and here they are on remote beaches getting themselves into all sorts of precarious situations....

 

many people are very unaware of the dangers of the sea/lakes/submerged things....

 

And some people don't take vary basic precations like checking conditions before jumping in, knowing their own ability and telling people where they are etc...

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And just as I typed that I have a breaking news thing pop up on my PC to tell me that 14 people have been swept off the rocks at Crescent Head.

 

Rescue underway and helicopter has just arrived ....

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Many adults are no better.

many people are very unaware of the dangers of the sea/lakes/submerged things....

 

You just have to watch the occasional episode of Bondi Rescue to see the stupidity of people and the water.

 

As a lifetime surfer and diver, the one thing I've learnt was respect for the ocean.

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Just spent a week or so on a beach and whilst my kids are old and I don't take my phone to the beach, plenty do and ignore their kids.

I helped out as a Nippers Age Group Manager for 2 years at a Surf Life Saving Club (very young kids). We would regularly explain to the parents that we were not a child-sitting service and that they must take responsibility for their own kids and watch them in the surf during the fun and games. Some parents were awesome and really helped out, others buggered off for coffee - which I could never understand and was always amazed how little regard they seemed to have for their own child's safety.

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A mate I went through training school in the 80's with had won a few board-riding contests in Mackay (didn't know they had surf there, but hey). His first weekend down we took him to the GC. We were standing in waist deep water and a 2 foot wave broke as it got to us. I bent & lent into it, no issue. He did 3 somersaults and got up with a black eye from hitting the bottom so hard. He had no idea that real surf had so much power, even when it was small.

 

Respect the water.

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I have this hilarious story about my wife (who is English)

 

When we moved back to Australia - the first time (approx. 10 years ago) we went to the beach one day.

 

Sheltered little beach, small (like 2 foot) waves, ideal swimming conditions.

 

I've dropped my towel and headed into the water..... she follows.

 

I get out past the breaking waves as this little set comes through - and turn around to see her get smashed over and over again by half a dozen little waves ..... she is standing right in the break zone without a clue, rolling around between the bottom and the sky, going ass over tits for about a minute .... its bikini and ass all over the shop - I was pissing myself (she was none too pleased).

 

My wife is a good swimmer (in a pool) and, growing up near the beach, I assumed every other 20-something would be able to handle some 2 foot rolling waves..... ummm...nope!

Edited by TryTriB4Forty

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As a foreigner who is a very good swimmer (in the pool) I was surprised by the strength of the waves and the rips when I arrived in Oz. It is so much stronger than anything I have felt or experienced in Europe. So I can understand how foreigners get caught out.

 

With the nanny state that exists here, they (and us) start to ignore warning signs as they are all over the place and some for ridiculous reasons - how do you tell the real ones from the nanny ones?

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I get out past the breaking waves as this little set comes through - and turn around to see her get smashed over and over again by half a dozen little waves ..... she is standing right in the break zone without a clue, rolling around between the bottom and the sky, going ass over tits for about a minute .... its bikini and ass all over the shop - I was pissing myself (she was none too pleased).

 

same but a kiwi wife.

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Seems to me the emphasis on physical activity, skills and sport has dropped considerably over the decades. At the same time there's more sport spectating than ever. And computer games.

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I could go on and on about this subject. As tragic as it is when a little one drowns, it falls back to supervision. I see it all the time and it makes me very angry. Ive had parents pulling their kids out of swimming lessons because it clashes with dancing....

 

edit to add that when my staff and I did our lifeguard updates last month our trainer suggested that baby and toddler drowning stats wouldn't change until parents started being charged with negligence. I know that sounds harsh but I can't say I don't disagree.

Edited by Ronnie
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I could go on and on about this subject. As tragic as it is when a little one drowns, it falls back to supervision. I see it all the time and it makes me very angry. Ive had parents pulling their kids out of swimming lessons because it clashes with dancing....

 

edit to add that when my staff and I did our lifeguard updates last month our trainer suggested that baby and toddler drowning stats wouldn't change until parents started being charged with negligence. I know that sounds harsh but I can't say I don't disagree.

 

This.

 

Also remember when she was 7, our youngest rescued a 2yo who had slipped down the ramp in a resort pool as his parents were not watching.

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My kids are 14 and 11, and can hold their own. But certainly at the beach I don't stop watching. I constantly have to remind them to stay in between the flags cause people don't realise how much they drift. I constantly remind them to keep position in front of me. My kids are bloody smart kids, yet need these constant reminders, and my supervision. It doesn't suprise me how much trouble people get themselves into.

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Good article about declining percentage of kids able swim in The Australian recently, unfortunately behind a paywall

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/health/swimming-classes-for-kids-migrants-to-curb-drownings/news-story/11ab12ed379575e31d1c5f400f7a5a4c

 

Here's one pertinent part

 

"In November, a Life Saving Victoria report found that three out of five of the state’s primary-school students were unable to swim 50m."

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Good article about declining percentage of kids able swim in The Australian recently, unfortunately behind a paywall

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/health/swimming-classes-for-kids-migrants-to-curb-drownings/news-story/11ab12ed379575e31d1c5f400f7a5a4c

 

Here's one pertinent part

 

"In November, a Life Saving Victoria report found that three out of five of the state’s primary-school students were unable to swim 50m."

 

So not much has changed in 30+ years then. My primary school swim carnival consisted out of my year 3 of us competing once the events went past 25m. None of the other kids could swim 50 metres, half couldn't even do the 25 metres without stopping to hang onto the lane ropes, so the 3 of us took it in turns getting our ribbons every year across all events - just a shame the other 2 were in the other sporting house

 

It's probably a generational thing, most parents thinking they got by without learning how to swim, so they don't put the funds into getting their kids taught, other than what the public schools provide

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As important as it is, it is expensive too. My daughter and son's winter sports cost about $150/season. They only get new kit once every 2 years at most atm (only because they are growing). They get about an hour of play and one or more training sessions a week included. Swimming lessons were costing over $100/term for 30min, maybe 45mins for the older kid.

 

I know it's an essential part of aussie life, which is why ours were in the pool from under 12mnths of age. But it is expensive, especially for those on lower incomes.

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As important as it is, it is expensive too. My daughter and son's winter sports cost about $150/season. They only get new kit once every 2 years at most atm (only because they are growing). They get about an hour of play and one or more training sessions a week included. Swimming lessons were costing over $100/term for 30min, maybe 45mins for the older kid.

 

I know it's an essential part of aussie life, which is why ours were in the pool from under 12mnths of age. But it is expensive, especially for those on lower incomes.

Which adds up to nearly 1 cigarette a day, or 2 beers a week.

 

No wonder they can't afford it.

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