Jump to content
trinube

Risks of endurance sport

Recommended Posts

In respect for Craig Percival I didn't want Ruley's thread to be derailed into medical discussions.

 

As mentioned over there, I've had PE (Pulmonary Embolism) and thought it might be helpful to explain how it was diagnosed and how it was treated. To be honest I'm not that comfortable talking about it but I do think it warrants fuller discussion.

 

After a long break I'd started running again - just short (5k or less) jogs. I was pulling up a bit wheezy but apart from that had no symptoms - I figured it was just lack of fitness. I saw the GP and he gave me a Ventolin puffer which didn't make any difference. He thought it was probably an allergy (it was Spring). I was sent to a lung/respiratory specialist who tested me for allergies and Asthma. My lung tests came back above average (122%) and he told me there was not the slightest trace of Asthma. My allergy test was positive for grass and mould (fairly common apparently).

 

When we sat down to discuss the findings, the specialist was still a bit unsure.Even though I wasn't running much I was still playing touch footy once a week, riding a couple of hundred km a week and doing 3x 1.5k swims a week - all without major problems.

 

He basically finished up saying he couldn't pin down anything and felt further testing was unecessary. Literally as I was walking out the door he called me back and said "I'm going to send you for a VQ scan. I'm 99% sure it's not necessary but I just want to be sure". He called the hospital where the scan was to be done and I went in the next day. I called work to say I might be 10 minutes late as the scan was for 8.15. Scan was uneventful, breathe some ionised (?) air to check the lungs then a radioactive (?) injection to check the veins.

 

Doctor called me in and said "we've found something abnormal but don't worry, it can be treated". She called the specialist and the only things I recall her saying were "PE" and "ambulatory care". 5 minutes later I was lying on a bed in ambulatory care learning how to self inject Clexane. I had a couple of shots then went through the instructional talk about Warfarin. I didn't leave the hospital until that night.

 

It turned out I had 3 'clusters' of clots - two in one lung and a single in the other. I asked if they could be mistaken and they showed me scans and could even describe exactly where they were on each lung.

 

The next 5 days was dozens of needles and pills and daily visits to ambulatory care. I was put on Warfarin for 6 months will all the joy that this involves.

 

After 6 months another VQ scan revealed I was completely clear. I then had another scan after 12 months. If you've had a PE you are at risk of another one but statistically 80% get it in the first 12 months after the first. If you are clear for 12 months you are 'fairly' safe. If you get another you'll be on Warfarin for life.

 

After 12 months everything went back to normal. The only lasting legacy is blood thinning - if I'm doing long drives/flights (over 3-4 hours), going to be sedentary (a hospital stay) or any surgery I need thinners. It's a simple Clexane injection the day before, the day of and the day after.

 

I was very, very lucky. My clots were considered serious but clearly not serious enough to kill me. I had no recollection of a recent leg injury (although I often get little bumps at touch football). I've had knee and back surgery - both red flags for DVT/PE - but they were years before and my clots were recent (no idea how they know that). Long distance sport was discussed and a particular mention of dehydration.

 

Probably the most alarming thing was said to me by a mate who's a Doctor. I'd made the comment I was lucky it didn't get to my heart and he said "If it's in your lungs it's already been through your heart". :shocking:

 

As mentioned on the other thread, if you're not sure, get it checked - this IS life threatening. I had virtually no symptoms but the tiny symptom I had was enough for me to get it checked. I have no idea what would have happened if it hadn't been diagnosed but I imagine it would have gotten progressively worse until something finally gave out. I prefer not to think about it.

 

Here's a few links which discuss DVT and PE with particular reference to (endurance) sport and athletes.

 

Talking of pro athletes - this one is OK

more general information - this one

from Ironman itself

this one has good info from a runner's site

 

This a lot more geeky

 

and another

Edited by trinube
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for taking the time to do this for us, especially as you dont feel great talking about it. Glad to hear everything worked out for you, Im going to learn some more about this - cheers

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Trinube. I have thought about this in the past & then again just recently. I'll take the old body in for a service & tune up when I get back to town.

 

As you know I often do long flights / drives the day after Ironman often within only a few hours of crossing the line. I have been thinking about DVT & if I should stop doing this. (time to do some research)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been thinking about DVT & if I should stop doing this. (time to do some research)

 

I'm certainly not trying to stop anyone from training or competing but being aware of the risks and taking steps to minimise them makes sense.

 

Dehydration is mentioned a lot in the items linked above. Long flights (which can also lead to dehydration) is a known risk.

 

I think the smart things to do are easy. After a race drink water and go easy on the beers. Whack on some compression socks - particularly for the flight/drive home. It would probably be wise to talk to your GP, explain your concerns and the significant occurrence of DVT in endurance athletes, and maybe discuss taking an Aspirin or similar as a preventative.

 

And finally, those calf raise exercises we all ignore in the safety instructions? They should be done along with a walk up the aisle every now and then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my neighbour I describe in the other thread had skin tenting on the back of her hand. Pinch the skin and pull it up and if it stays "tented" and doesn't spring straight back down it is said to be a rough test that you are dehydrated.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So athlete specific risk.

 

Athletes are normally seen as young and healthy - not usual risk demographic

 

Risk factors are dehydration and immobilisation. Common in endurance athletes travelling home from races or big sessions.

 

Nothing spectacularly athlete specific as a cause. Just an combination of predictable things.

 

Am i missing something extraordinary? And hy does surgery make it more risky? Ie, during surgery? (I ask because i had knee surgery after a big year of training and racing.....didnt even think about it as a bigger risk than a normal person)

 

BC an added mixer for females

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Similarly to Trinube, I've also had PE. My story is a little different.

 

It was 2008 and the week before (Sunday) heading over to do IM Switzerland I had a pretty tough day (middle of winter, duathlon in the morning and 2 hour hard run in the evening). Pulled up marginally sore the next day (as you would), but on the Tuesday morning was sitting in the office I stood up and could not believe that I could barely walk - my left calf was so sore whereas I had no feeling of it beforehand. I put it down to straining something from the training session I just had. Curse luck I thought, hope I'm good for the race (which was now less than 2 weeks away).

 

Throughout the week the soreness eased a bit and I could still ride a bike OK, but running was out. Flew over on the Friday night and I felt my calf really sore and a bit bloated on the plane. Oh well. Got to Zurich (well Frankfurt actually as we went to the Germany IM first). By that stage was riding perfect and could almost run. By Tuesday I was running fine and by the time the race come I'd forgot about it. Did the IM, then went and road heaps of the climbs in the Alps whilst watching the TdF.

 

Flew home a few weeks later, then 4 or so days after getting home I felt my breathing a bit laborerd and started getting pain around the stummy area. Over 24 or so hours it become unbearable and did the unthinkable of calling an ambo as something stunk in Denmark. Off to hospital and whlist overnight they did a CT scan and sore enough clots on the lungs. We replyated what led up to it which I described above and it was a clot on the calf which clearly dislodged sometime whilst O/S with me unaware of what was about to happen.

 

Similar to Trinube, Clexane injections, 6 months of warfarin, check up and all good and that was that.

 

A few years later my father got DVT (Clot on the calf) and had warfarin for 6 months. He then got it a year or so later and was on warfarin (or variants) for life now.

 

Fast forward to last year and on a return flight from LA (sitting in a middle seat in cattle class) I felt my calf becoming sore. I initially thought it was how I was sitting (p.s I was wearing skins both there and back). When landing I thought this is unusual. A day or so later I went to the doc and sure enough had an ultrasound and sure enough they sore the clots on the calf. They didn't put me on warfarin, some other drug that is self regulating meaning I didn't have to get blood tested regularly and alter dosage. 2 months later after they should have all been gone, I went and had my next scan. I thought all was good and had exercised over that period including running. I was a bit shocked to find out there were still some clots there, but then they said they weren't the clots that they recently noticed but some that had been there for years!!! Hmmmm

 

So back to the doctor (and subsequent doctors) and said don't worry about them. If you feel pain around the area (we agreed I know the tell tale signs) then get them checked out again. So I'm not on anything (which goes against trinube mentioning 2nd DVT you have warfarin for life).

 

Regarding the 2nd case last year, I put it down to (1) a lot of running in CAN/MEX/US over 2.5 weeks (I did over 200k in heat and humid conditions), (2) not re-hydrating the best each night (when on holidays and in Cancun and Vegas.....) (3) the flight.

 

As much as I should be, I'm not terribly concerned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I think without doubt endurance sport increases your "exposure" to serious injury or fatality. Whilst Triathlon is a young sport with little real history, let alone research as time simply doesn't enable...... two of the Australian hall of famers have heart issues, there are plenty of top athletes from Australian triathlons golden era who have had issues , tony, Greg, Bruce, Ant are 4 without thinking, Emma as per above is another.

 

I've done two races where people, that is humans have dropped dead, and that doesn't include the people taken to hospital.

 

We can all do the I'd be fat or dead if I didn't have a healthy lifestyle but we don't know, we are not doing that. I do know for a fact in my life I haven't been to many events outside of sport where people drop dead. And that's just from living as opposed to riding a bike on a road and getting smashed or killed.

 

Gee's one year at busso, one of my mates was pissing blood and the esteemed medical advice to him on course was if you want to finish, just walk the rest...... high 5, go get that medal son.

 

With triathlon we tend to congratulate those that achieve amazing feats, a lot of which is achieved through doing really excessive stuff and/ or being selfish prats. Yes not all, but there are certainly some where we encourage the behaviour.

 

Is it strange to high 5 someone on an amazing feat, encouraging them on and they have serious health issues not long after or are dead ..... or is it totally unrelated and just the roll of the dice. It's easy to say they were doing what they loved but is it really a justifiable reason. I'm not dumb enough to say it is or isn't, as I'm not dumb enough to live my life through others or constantly seeking positive reinforcement from social media through Insta, tweeterville etc, etc. Would we have less of these types of extremes if social media didn't exist. What is the meaning of life ? Is there even one ? But you have to question it all, if you have any smarts at all. And sure, you might well accept the risk or decide it doesn't.

 

In saying all of above, we all make choices and blind Freddy knows the risk is there, most will get out alive, some will get out with life time health issues but the vast majority will move on without issue. Society as a whole laughed at Forrest Gump but with extremes in Triathlon or in the Endurance sport community we all go high 5, how good is that. It's just some of those people end up with serious health issues or dead, which happens in life as a whole, it just seems to happen at a greater rate in the endurance community or perhaps the endurance community just spreads the word better another has heart issues or is dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Trinube. Good insight. A while back I was having shortness of breath issues. I had no idea of the problem, so after "putting up with it" for a couple weeks, as most blokes do, I went to a doctor. He did the usual checks, asked a lot of questions, and PE was one of the options he checked. At the time I thought "you're kidding", but looking at yours, and other people's experiences, I suppose I'm glad he did.

 

It turned out there was no issue there, and that it was probably anxiety, but at least I know after this that my GP is looking at all the options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great posts - and very informative...

 

My other half picked up DVT and we were very lucky that we picked it up - similar to some of the other stories above...

 

She is a seasoned long-distance runner, with over 40 marathons under her belt - and by and large regards herself (pretty accurately) as indestructable!

 

After a busy week at work with long hours and minimal sleep she had to fly Sydney to Perth and back for a 2 day conference and on her return felt a bit of an odd pain in her calf... not quite muscular, not quite bone pain which we both thought seemed odd, but didn't really worry too much about... but it persisted so I had a good look at the pattern of the bruising (more a red rash-like pattern than a 'bruise' per se), and it seemed to follow the pattern of the vein so I talked her in to going to see the GP... he wasn't sure, but referred to hospital just in case, and then the results came in - and a pretty large DVT clot - and rushed off to hospital for treatment...

 

I guess lessons to learn are that Syd-Perth flights can equate to long-haul for DVT - and are compounded by other things going on in your lives... also that the sensation and physical indicators of DVT aren't all that apparent, but if in any doubt go to the Doc's!

 

Cheers

 

A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a DVT after knee surgery. It felt like a calf strain but after four days of recovery that was unlikely.

My sister's description of straining her calf as she was about to leave hospital with her second baby rang in my ears. She was lucky a smart nurse heard the comment because she spent a further three weeks in hospital while they gave her clexane, weaned the baby, then stabilised her warfarin.

My GP was reluctant but I was insistent, did the Doppler ultrasound and there was a clot in the calf which had still not blocked the vein. I'm lucky as I only needed high dose clexane for about 10 days. But I was terrified of the consequences.

I still self inject like Trinube for long travel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sometimes look at the Trannie posts and shake my head in bemusement and despair.

 

Then you get threads like this and it's a reminder that, for all the dysfunction, it's a great community.

 

Well done, in particular trinube for getting the ball rolling, and many thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Risk factors are dehydration and immobilisation. Common in endurance athletes travelling home from races or big sessions.

 

Nothing spectacularly athlete specific as a cause. Just an combination of predictable things.

 

Am i missing something extraordinary? And hy does surgery make it more risky? Ie, during surgery? (I ask because i had knee surgery after a big year of training and racing.....didnt even think about it as a bigger risk than a normal person)

 

 

If you go through the links you will see some explanations of why athletes are at greater risk. Lower heart rates, lower BP, dehydration etc are all seen to contribute but there's really not sufficient studies to pin it down to specifics. In one of the links it said as many as 85% of the sufferers were 'athletic'.

 

"The key is to be aware as you train, travel, and race. Airhealth.org says that about 85% of air travel thrombosis victims are athletic, endurance athletes like marathoners. They also cite the following athlete risk factors for air travel:

  • Low heart rates and blood pressures
  • Bruises or fatigued, sore muscles (i.e. post race)
  • 82% are under the age of 60
  • Altitude can increase coagulation factors"

 

As for surgery, I'd be guessing anything which might stimulate clotting - an injury, a wound, graft, surgery etc. In simplistic terms if you sprain an ankle or get a decent cork the body needs to stop the bleeding.

 

Please research it if you're interested. I'm a sufferer not a Doctor so I'm not in a position to give anything other than my own speculation.

Edited by trinube

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, thanks for the story and prompt.

 

Drinking more water and staying a bit more hydrated seems to be an easy thing to do. I'm usually happy enough to dehydrate moderately, particularly after Science of Sport had the articles about weight loss in marathoners often being up to 5%, mostly water, and the risks of over drinking rather than under drinking in a long event. I'd always walk around the plane on a long flight, but haven't done any in a decade.

 

Generally I think the mentality around harder longer, harden up, more is better etc is at the core. Can't win or even do well without that, and kudos to those who have it, and probably in one sense don't achieve much without it, but seems evidence is building that risks and problems also multiply with it. One of those trade-offs, but helps if risks are better known.

 

Bit of analogy. I saw it with squash where many, probably most, top and even just resonably good players wound up needing knee or hip replacements by their 40s and 50s, or back problems etc, and unable to do much afterwards. The risks weren't known in the 70s and 80s. At the time it was kind of last man standing gladitorial stuff, similar to a bit of what I think I see in the triathlon community. I also flew hang gliders for 10 years, risk evaluation was a core aspect of that sport,

 

Not to relativise things, nor get too analytical or detract from the main point of the thread, but to me the cycling is overwhelmingly the biggest risk of triathlon training. And that risk is well worth taking c.f. sedentarism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Â

Â

If you go through the links you will see some explanations of why athletes are at greater risk. Lower heart rates, lower BP, dehydration etc are all seen to contribute but there's really not sufficient studies to pin it down to specifics. In one of the links it said as many as 85% of the sufferers were 'athletic'.

Â

"The key is to be aware as you train, travel, and race. Airhealth.org says that about 85% of air travel thrombosis victims are athletic, endurance athletes like marathoners. They also cite the following athlete risk factors for air travel:

  • Low heart rates and blood pressures
  • Bruises or fatigued, sore muscles (i.e. post race)
  • 82% are under the age of 60
  • Altitude can increase coagulation factors"
Â

As for surgery, I'd be guessing anything which might stimulate clotting - an injury, a wound, graft, surgery etc. In simplistic terms if you sprain an ankle or get a decent cork the body needs to stop the bleeding.

Â

Please research it if you're interested. I'm a sufferer not a Doctor so I'm not in a position to give anything other than my own speculation.

Cheers. I understand and appreiate the info.

 

I have looked through the references, and maybe im over simplifying it. But i just dont see the solid link between endurance athletics an dvt specifically.

My husband who does no exercise or sports has a better chance according to those risk factors, just due to his job in construction. Outdoors.

 

I just feel we're targetting it up as if its endurance athlete specific. When its a range of risk factors that appear in a large number of areas where we should all be aware.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I think without doubt endurance sport increases your "exposure" to serious injury or fatality. Whilst Triathlon is a young sport with little real history, let alone research as time simply doesn't enable...... two of the Australian hall of famers have heart issues, there are plenty of top athletes from Australian triathlons golden era who have had issues , tony, Greg, Bruce, Ant are 4 without thinking, Emma as per above is another.

 

I've done two races where people, that is humans have dropped dead, and that doesn't include the people taken to hospital.

 

We can all do the I'd be fat or dead if I didn't have a healthy lifestyle but we don't know, we are not doing that. I do know for a fact in my life I haven't been to many events outside of sport where people drop dead. And that's just from living as opposed to riding a bike on a road and getting smashed or killed.

 

Gee's one year at busso, one of my mates was pissing blood and the esteemed medical advice to him on course was if you want to finish, just walk the rest...... high 5, go get that medal son.

 

With triathlon we tend to congratulate those that achieve amazing feats, a lot of which is achieved through doing really excessive stuff and/ or being selfish prats. Yes not all, but there are certainly some where we encourage the behaviour.

 

Is it strange to high 5 someone on an amazing feat, encouraging them on and they have serious health issues not long after or are dead ..... or is it totally unrelated and just the roll of the dice. It's easy to say they were doing what they loved but is it really a justifiable reason. I'm not dumb enough to say it is or isn't, as I'm not dumb enough to live my life through others or constantly seeking positive reinforcement from social media through Insta, tweeterville etc, etc. Would we have less of these types of extremes if social media didn't exist. What is the meaning of life ? Is there even one ? But you have to question it all, if you have any smarts at all. And sure, you might well accept the risk or decide it doesn't.

 

In saying all of above, we all make choices and blind Freddy knows the risk is there, most will get out alive, some will get out with life time health issues but the vast majority will move on without issue. Society as a whole laughed at Forrest Gump but with extremes in Triathlon or in the Endurance sport community we all go high 5, how good is that. It's just some of those people end up with serious health issues or dead, which happens in life as a whole, it just seems to happen at a greater rate in the endurance community or perhaps the endurance community just spreads the word better another has heart issues or is dead.

Interesting you say that.

I have a term for Ironman in my head....

 

Socially acceptable self harm.

 

Not why I do it, but you do wonder sometimes over a quiet beer....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not seeing anything scientific there that says athletes have a higher risk of DVT, I am also yet to see anything scientific to prove athletes have a high risk of heart problems. We should keep an open mind to it, but don't confuse a theory, opinion or your experience with proven evidence. Seems to happen at a higher rate is different to it actually being at a higher rate. I am also yet to see evidence that endurance sport increases the risk of joint damage or arthritis which is another theory people like to spread. Sometimes shit just happens and no-one knows why yet. For what it is worth I don't think Ironman is great for your long term health, but I am yet to see hard proof of that. And don't peel off the names of people you know of, I can come up with plenty more people I know with all those issues that have never done any exercise, the one thing we know for sure is that group of people has the highest risk of most things. Do no exercise = BAD, Do massive amounts = Possible not good. But what is the best amount ? Is the the intensity or volume that is not good ? I am yet to see any proof, only theories.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as arguing the benefits or detriment of endurance sports goes then you may as well throw in other factors that effect people like mental health, suicide rates, domestic violence, vandalism and many other health or social issues. In general, if doing some form of exercise at a level that helps keep you healthy and happy makes you a better person then surely that is a good thing for you and for society as a whole.

 

Thanks Trinube, GSP, and others for your stories and the info. Sure we all know there's some risks involved with endurance sports, but it's good to be reminded of how it can effect us. Real people, and real examples of what is happening to people similar to myself. It's certainly something that I'll be taking into consideration when getting back into some endurance training and racing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have looked through the references, and maybe im over simplifying it. But i just dont see the solid link between endurance athletics an dvt specifically.

 

I'm not seeing anything scientific there that says athletes have a higher risk of DVT, I am also yet to see anything scientific to prove athletes have a high risk of heart problems.

 

One of the problems we have with these types of discussions is that people will read into it what they like and omit what they don't. I'm not saying endurance sport causes DVT/PE and I'm not saying to stop doing it. However, If you can't see a correlation based on the stats provided I'd suggest you're not open to a theoretical possibility.

 

The fact that 85% of the people presenting with DVT/PE on flights are athletic people like marathoners/triathletes has to be considered suspicious. The fact than many top athletes have suffered DVT/PE would also have to be suspicious. The fact that low HR, low BP, muscle bruising, higher muscle bulk and dehydration are known to be factors in DVT/PE tends to indicate athletes are at higher risk.

 

As mentioned in an earlier post there haven't been sufficient studies to positively implicate endurance sport with DVT/PE (and it's frankly unlikely to happen any time soon) but it would be incredibly naive to ignore the correlations.

 

The whole purpose of this thread is to alert people to the symptoms and treatments and the fact the statistics would suggest we are at a higher risk. Given that, why would you not mitigate the risk by wearing appropriate compression socks, hydrating well, performing the correct exercises and speaking to a doctor before traveling to determine whether any form of preventative medication would be wise?

 

This is not the time to HTFU and ignore the circumstantial evidence. It is life threatening and over 100,000 people die in the States each year from PE which is more than car accidents, breast cancer and aids combined.

Edited by trinube
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting you say that.

I have a term for Ironman in my head....

 

Socially acceptable self harm.

 

Not why I do it, but you do wonder sometimes over a quiet beer....

 

It doesn't have to be - the guys who get into trouble are the ones who break simple basic rules - too often - far too often the people who get into trouble have allowed their lives to get out of balance

 

* Thinking that a conventional diet will be adequate for an extreme life - many avoiding nutritional supplements

 

* Not weighing themselves regularly enough to monitor hydration levels

 

* Not refuelling adequately after sessions while trying to lose weight

 

* Carrying too much fat on their bodies as a result of dietary excesses

 

* Training while fat to try and reduce weight caused by a bad diet - training will not negate the effects of a bad diet

 

* Doing ridiculous feats which are beyond the body's ability to recover from one day to the next

 

* Not adjusting training loads to allow for advancing age

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It doesn't have to be - the guys who get into trouble are the ones who break simple basic rules - too often - far too often the people who get into trouble have allowed their lives to get out of balance

 

* Thinking that a conventional diet will be adequate for an extreme life - many avoiding nutritional supplements

 

* Not weighing themselves regularly enough to monitor hydration levels

 

* Not refuelling adequately after sessions while trying to lose weight

 

* Carrying too much fat on their bodies as a result of dietary excesses

 

* Training while fat to try and reduce weight caused by a bad diet - training will not negate the effects of a bad diet

 

* Doing ridiculous feats which are beyond the body's ability to recover from one day to the next

 

* Not adjusting training loads to allow for advancing age

Yeah cool. But it was a sarcastic thought, not necessarily a belief. All good [emoji106]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My message is simple - approach this sport from a point of view you would have with a veteran car - maintain it well - drive it carefully - don't do things with it that push it to beyond it's natural limits - and it will last for far longer than if you abuse it :smile1:

 

Aim for optimal health first - fitness second :smartarse:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the problems we have with these types of discussions is that people will read into it what they like and omit what they don't. I'm not saying endurance sport causes DVT/PE and I'm not saying to stop doing it. However, If you can't see a correlation based on the stats provided I'd suggest you're not open to a theoretical possibility.

.

Im not disputing that. And appreciate your insights.

 

I just dont think we should get fixated on the link between endurance sport and dvt. The link is between the risk factors, such as you listed.

 

Those factors are present in other activities, not just endurance sport.

 

I feel if we get fixated on sport as the cause, we risk diverting attention from the actual factors that could be induced by other activities.

 

What about the fit tradie that spends all day working outside, getting knocks, dehydrated, then heads home and sits on the couch all evening drinking beer?

 

Endurance exercise is one activity that can lead to those factors. But its not the only one.

 

Yes it does need attention. I agree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Endurance exercise is one activity that can lead to those factors. But its not the only one.

 

Yes it does need attention. I agree.

 

Definitely right - people out there are dying all the time - it's not just the endurance athletes - I'm sure if you compared endurance athletes with any other group in society you'd find this life stacks up pretty well against anything else you might try

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Endurance exercise is one activity that can lead to those factors. But its not the only one.

 

No-one is even remotely suggesting it is. But the fact remains that 85% of the people who presented with DVT/PE were athletes, not tradies.

 

I also agree with what AP says, by virtue of living we're all at risk of death and as a general rule people who exercise and eat well do better at life than those who don't. That doesn't mean one shouldn't take sensible and simple precautions to avoid what appears to be a real issue which affects just these sorts of people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

No-one is even remotely suggesting it is. But the fact remains that 85% of the people who presented with DVT/PE were athletes, not tradies.

 

I also agree with what AP says, by virtue of living we're all at risk of death and as a general rule people who exercise and eat well do better at life than those who don't. That doesn't mean one shouldn't take sensible and simple precautions to avoid what appears to be a real issue which affects just these sorts of people.

 

 

Agree.

 

Do what you like in the knowledge that "what we like" holds us in better stead than the rest of the population, but if you get some of the symptoms mentioned and have put yourself in the high risk groups by being an athlete and having trained or raced hard and having traveled or been sedentary then you now know what to consider as a POSSIBLE matter of urgency.

 

Dont die, the forum needs all the members it can get :lol:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

No-one is even remotely suggesting it is. But the fact remains that 85% of the people who presented with DVT/PE were athletes, not tradies.

 

I also agree with what AP says, by virtue of living we're all at risk of death and as a general rule people who exercise and eat well do better at life than those who don't. That doesn't mean one shouldn't take sensible and simple precautions to avoid what appears to be a real issue which affects just these sorts of people.

85% of their observations were athletic type people. This is not exactly empirical peer tested medical quality research, how many people ? What is the definition of an athletic person ? Also note a lot of the articles you have listed are referring to risks from impact sports, I can see how collisions would lead to higher risks, endurance sports are very different.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

85% of their observations were athletic type people. This is not exactly empirical peer tested medical quality research, how many people ? What is the definition of an athletic person ? Also note a lot of the articles you have listed are referring to risks from impact sports, I can see how collisions would lead to higher risks, endurance sports are very different.

 

Low HR, low BP and dehydration are far from unique to impact sports. I've already stated a number of times that these are factual observations but you are somehow wanting scientific research that simply doesn't exist.

 

Let me put it another way. More people die from this than breast cancer, car accident and AIDS combined. Would you willingly have unprotected sex with an Aids carrier? Would you happily drive without a seatbelt? Would you be happy to smoke when the cancer people say not to?

 

Look I'm not going to preach to you, if you don't want to believe there's any additional risk then all power to you. But behind the trees you're seeing there's a forest you're choosing to ignore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is empirical evidence that having unprotected sex, smoking and driving without a seat belt increases your risk of death. There is not empirical evidence that endurance sports increases your risk of death (yet). I support your theory, but it remains a theory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is empirical evidence that having unprotected sex, smoking and driving without a seat belt increases your risk of death.

 

And yet before there was evidence, the risk was identical.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about incidence of skin cancer in endurance sports

 

Apparently it's quite high in cricketers. At least triathletes seem to be fairly good with sunscreen and hats.

 

We have to remember that triathlon is still a relatively young sport and it may be a while before we know of long term risks. I'd love for Jabbs to pop back and relate his heart issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I'd love for Jabbs to pop back and relate his heart issues.

 

Spare us

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

No-one is even remotely suggesting it is. But the fact remains that 85% of the people who presented with DVT/PE were athletes, not tradies.

 

I also agree with what AP says, by virtue of living we're all at risk of death and as a general rule people who exercise and eat well do better at life than those who don't. That doesn't mean one shouldn't take sensible and simple precautions to avoid what appears to be a real issue which affects just these sorts of people.

 

 

Completely agree and thanks for sharing this. It dangerous that people think that being endurance athletes makes people immune to these conditions. People think they can eat shit because they will burn it off etc...

 

it is important to know these things and to now what symptoms are....... my brother in law 35 yrs old and ex-squash junior world champion and seemingly very fit guy one morning randomly vomited on his way to work and felt very unwell with a tight chest..... the emergency NHS doctor at the hospital told him to stop trying to get out of work and get on with it..... he went back again with the same symptoms and the same doc sent him away. Turns out he was having a heart attack and because he was sent away suffered a myocardial infarction which would have been avoided had he been taken seriously. Also had he thought, fit as he thought he was, he could be having a heart attack at 35 he would have seen a private Dr sooner.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last week I said I'd diagnosed 7 DVT's in 2016. Make that 7 DVT's and a PE. 30 year old Basketballer tore his ACL, I picked up his DVT 2 weeks ago. He was put on Aspirin. Complained of tightness in chest and tiredness, sore to take a deep breath when he came in today. Had a V/Q and is in hospital.

 

Additionally, TriNewbs point above is very pertinent. I know 2 otherwise healthy people who died from heart attacks when they mistook their symptoms for anxiety. One was my sister at 34, and last month a mate at 50. If you aren't being listened to or feel something isn't right, be a pain in the arse until someone takes you seriously.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about incidence of skin cancer in endurance sports

 

did a lot of work with arpansa once on this subject...... there advice at the time was its normally what you do as a kid that nails this coffin.

 

Can also remember them telling us an average full day in the english sun is the equivalent of 20 minutes in Australia.

 

Not saying burn yourself to a cinder at all.

Edited by Oompa Loompa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...