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japay1

Any benefit from strength work/lifting

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Not even 1% of weight lifters or body builders have made the change to triathlon and become successful.

 

I'd be very surprised if even 1% of weight lifters or body builders had any interest at all in triathlon. You're drawing a very long bow.

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Couldn't read all the pages here but I side with FB and I appreciate him sharing his views.

There is always lots to learn with dynamic movement, the body is so complicated! For instance, many PTs and sports doctors have blamed poor core strength on my injury issues but recently another specialist suggests I have poor foot mobility pushing stress up the leg chain. Regardless of the actual cause I found that when I ignore core strength and releasing my hips (TFL shortens) it seriously impacts my recovery and ability to train more.
I do think it is hard to find the most effective movements and to learn how to do them properly, first in isolation and then in sport specifically. But I do not think that negates the benefits of investing sometime in this space, each individual needs to try and figure out this stuff. If you have perfect mobility and bio-mechanics and can simply improve your run gait by thinking about it while you run, you are a legend!

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And yet you go on to debate SBR strength via hills and paddles vs isolated movements, and then suggest FB doesn't know when people are just fishing/trolling. I see both sides of the story though. As a strength advocate I'm just saying targeted and correctly done strength work often has some benefit for triathletes, particularly ectomorphs and those over 40. Single joint body building exercises like leg extensions are of less benefit to triathletes than say single legged squats (done correctly). The OP may gets some benefit from 2 weekly circuits but the research, which is very poor, finds no real performance improvement, however if the OP investigates exercises targeting functional movement they're more likely to notice improvements, particularly with injury prevention. Each to his own though, it's a bit like the old stretching before exercise debate but let's save that for another thread! It's good to have contrarians around but let's do so without antagonising each other, this isn't ST.

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I've just ordered Mark Rippetoe's books Starting Strength - Basic barbell training 3rd Edition and Practical Programming for Strength Training.

 

Will be interesting reading. ;)

 

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.....has some benefit for triathletes, particularly ectomorphs and those over 40.

 

This.

 

If I'd done appropriate glute/hip/core/back strength work, and dropped a hard bike & swim session, I'm confident I'd still be able to do triathlon at a similar level rather than not being able to do it at all.

 

On the upside, since being back in the gym for 3yrs, I can pump yabbies like a madman.

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I can pump yabbies like a madman

This is the best statement ever.

Assuming it's not a euphemism.......

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I have been exercising and playing sport since I was 8. I am now 57 and only missed 1 year competing due to a bike accident (mentioned in previous threads). I use strength training periodically (some years yes, some no). I have personally found it beneficial for all sports as well as my personal health. I have seen differences in the years I don't.

 

My personal experience is that it strengthens my whole body and keeps me in alignment, especially when fatigued. I have notice funnily that it helps me mentally outside of training. I am a desk jockey and it keeps me straight, supported this allowing less fatigue.

 

I have not done any strength work now for 4 months and I have suffered with posture and back pain, especially on my current holiday abroad. I will be back in Oz tomorrow and start my light strength work from Sunday.

 

My personal experience over many years is that it holds the body together better so you can train better as well as keeping my personal wellbeing. No science, just experimenting.

 

FM

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This is the best statement ever.

Assuming it's not a euphemism.......

 

Nah, about 5yrs ago I was fishing with my brother down at Narooma. Was trying to pump yabbies on the sand-flats for bait and was so weak from triathlon I was entirely crap at it.

 

He said "fair dinkum do you even pump yabbies ya triathlon poof, here give me the frikin pump" :lol:

Edited by ComfortablyNumb
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I have been exercising and playing sport since I was 8. I am now 57 and only missed 1 year competing due to a bike accident (mentioned in previous threads). I use strength training periodically (some years yes, some no). I have personally found it beneficial for all sports as well as my personal health. I have seen differences in the years I don't.

My personal experience is that it strengthens my whole body and keeps me in alignment, especially when fatigued. I have notice funnily that it helps me mentally outside of training. I am a desk jockey and it keeps me straight, supported this allowing less fatigue.

I have not done any strength work now for 4 months and I have suffered with posture and back pain, especially on my current holiday abroad. I will be back in Oz tomorrow and start my light strength work from Sunday.

My personal experience over many years is that it holds the body together better so you can train better as well as keeping my personal wellbeing. No science, just experimenting.

FM

Agree and can relate to all the points you made.

"Holding the body together so you can train better and personal well being." Best statement about Strength training on this thread.

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Who said anything about strength training is about getting huge.

 

Just a comment on this.

 

An increase in strength can only be achieved in 2 ways.

 

Initially strength improves in response to strength training due to an initial neural gain as the body improves coordination and timing of the contraction of existing muscle fibres. However such initial gains are exhausted within a matter of weeks of undertaking strength training and thereafter any gains in strength can only be achieved via muscle hypertrophy, IOW increasing the cross sectional area of the muscles.

 

Now that doesn't mean getting "huge" but increasing strength in a sustainable manner requires increasing muscle cross sectional area / size.

 

Again, what people are calling strength, often isn't really about strength at all but something else.

 

And as I said in my earlier post: Don't expect miracles wrt endurance athletic performance, YMMV and life means there are reasons other than outright SBR performance that might mean such exercise has its place.

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5 minutes ago, skinnee said:

http://www.osteoporosis.org.au/sites/default/files/files/Exercise Fact Sheet 2nd Edition.pdf

swimming and cycling have no impact on bone health. Important to maintain bone health, stability as you get older.

Running, jogging, skipping or brisk walking are examples of far better exercises for BMD than lifting weights. It's the slight jarring of the skeletal system that seems to provide the best stimulus for bone regenerative growth.

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Yeah I think strength training (body weight or free weights) has its place to target imbalances e.g. glutes, shoulders for office workers and also in rehab work. After coming back to training after a heart op I will be using it to correct my own imbalances this winter.

Agree with comments you made earlier that sprint work / vo2 Max work is of far greater benefit to increase the s/b/r performance. Investing in a power meter for the bike > investing in gym membership.

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This subject needs to be kept alive 

* Too many people lack simple functional strength - the type of strength that allows you to push a wheel barrow up a hill - swing a pick - shovel soil - too many dodge these activities and they can be so beneficial to "all round strength and core stability" - when a friend needs a hand with some digging, wheeling, gardening, furniture moving, you'll probably gain more doing that than you would in the gym, or putting in another "recovery run".

* Everybody has time to do core work - those who suggest we don't need to do specific core exercises are misleading you - you don't have to spend much time doing core work - I have my squad do them for ten minutes three times a week - it's amazing how beneficial that is in injury prevention and the ability to hold good posture in the second half of an Ironman marathon

* You don't need a gym membership - with a combination of chin ups - push ups - lunges - scissors - trunk twists (repeated over and over) you can work the body in a way that is really beneficial and is not worked by swimming, cycling and running (some franchise coaches have been convinced that swimming, biking and running are all you need for core strength) Everybody has access to a staircase and a knapsack - some of the best strength work can be done with a pair of hiking boots and a knapsack, go out and hit the trails for strength and endurance (hell you may even enjoy a bit of fresh air)

* As the general triathlon community ages most can afford to pay someone to do the handy work around the home, just when you have reached an age where you can pay someone else to do the hard stuff, is when you need to do it most.You will not compete well into older age groups if you don't maintain, or improve your strength.

 

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Good post AP - my brother and i pantented it as the Clint Eastwood workout (running, abs, push ups and chin ups)

my physio got me onto Pilates 3 years ago and haven't looked back , although I don't go to classes much as I can do it solo

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17 minutes ago, skinnee said:

Good post AP - my brother and i pantented it as the Clint Eastwood workout (running, abs, push ups and chin ups)

I call it "military type strength work" - it works - a combination of natural movements often through a larger range of movement than what's required in our sport - it's the all round strength/fitness that the special forces want their recruits to master B) it's the way of future sports conditioning - no mirrors required - no towel to carry from one station to the next - if you can't stand someone else's sweat on a bar or mat - move aside and make room for someone who can 

 

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I think they still do squats, deadlifts and lunges with weights , body weight for chin ups, dips and push ups for upper. Rest is running , swim and core work. 

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I'm just playing around in the gym over the last 4 or 5 months with a 3 x week program where I do one pull exercise, one squatting exercise, one pushing exercise and 2 directions of trunk strengthening exercise each session and keep the reps between 5 and 10 for each set, 3 main sets after 2 warmup sets.

I choose from this list

Squat: front squat, back squat, bulgarian split squat (rear foot elevated)

Pull: deadlift, rackpull, romanian deadlift, landmine 1 leg RDL, cable pull through

Push: incline pushups (I have a very dodgy AC joint which did not like bench press as it got heavy and doing 100 incline pushups a session is tolerable)

Trunk: crunches, planks, pavlov press (aka parloff press and a heap of other rusky sounding names)

My current favourites are the RDL, the bulgarian split squat and the pavlov press but I make sure I mix it up and don't do the same exercise every session.  I have been able to do this sort of session and play 5 a side, go to soccer training or play on weekends with no dramas. Lifting heavy things in a gym has definitely helped with flexibility and ability to get shit done overall, but has taken several tweaks over a few years to arrive at something that fits in with other activities and allows my back, shoulders and elbows to be happy as I get closer to 50.

There is ample evidence out there that resistance training improves endurance sport results, you can do a simple search and find studies showing improved economy, run and cycle TT times if you want to. Finding a tri coach who is willing to use them may be harder.

AP you'd love some of the groups of blokes who do your sorts of stuff down here. The FDIA (fittest drunks in Australia), Wanda Callo's (calisthenics) and locally a group called the legends. They are all groups going for 20+ years, run by old blokes I assume are ex military and surf club guys and all include the sorts of work you suggest, plus some boxing. No BS, a lot of sledging and laughs and then a beer afterwards.

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