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Any benefit from strength work/lifting

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Alex what a load shit. I know many university graduates in various professions who may have a piece a paper to say they know this and that but put into practice they are shit. Knowing anatomy from theory is fine but seeing, observing and understanding dysfunction and movement patterns is more relevant.

As I have said before I hate the PT industry as so many give it a bad name.

Can remember talking about going to physio for run analysis etc and achieving no results. They are uni educated but still failed for a few.

 

Not trying to blow my own trumpet but i dont have a uni degree and did online fitness course but also an intetnship for a sports development diploma which was all practical and yet I knew more than the head exercise scientists in some areas particularly running related.

I have learnt a lot more away from books and school etc by actually going through the process myself and understanding things from the physical aspect. Have used myself as a guinea pig numerous times.

 

In some instances a Uni degree is just a piece of paper saying you know something. The real experts who live, dream and passionate about what they do not just treat people as a money making scheme.

FB you seem like a well intentioned guy, you are blowing your own trumpet and this thread is coming across as megaphone, talking down to people as if no one else knows anything. Periodisation is not a surprise to us.

 

You might know this and not care, just like I come across as a smart alec.

 

Weight training is not shown to be of great value for endurance athletes, people keep trying to make it so to justify their position.

 

Some well credentialed athletes have done it and won, they all take supplements too which are not proven to meet their claims

Edited by BarryBevan
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FB you seem like a well intentioned guy, you are blowing your own trumpet and this thread is coming across as megaphone, talking down to people as if no one else knows anything. Periodisation is not a surprise to us.

Â

You might know this and not care, just like I come across as a smart alec.

Â

Weight training is not shown to be of great value for endurance athletes, people keep trying to make it so to justify their position.

Â

Some well credentialed athletes have done it and won, they all take supplements too which are not proven to meet their claims

 

I just hate it when people say you need a uni degree to justify what you know. Many people have Uni degrees and have not used them as there is no work or they lose interest in the career choice.

 

A builder who doesnt pay extra money to be a master builder or join a union is no less a builder than one who is.

Same goes for people in fitness industry you either take pride in what you do or you don't.

 

People should not be judged on a Uni degree.

 

By the way did i say anything about weight training don't think so.

Maybe conditioning, prehab, rehab if needed. How does one return from a stress fracture without any form of rehab and conditioning as an example.

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Im working with a PT a couple of times a week at the moment and hes big into the trx stuff. I'm really noticing how functionally weak i seem to be considering i had hought i was keeping ok. Really brings your core into it

Love trx. Need to get a set.

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I just hate it when people say you need a uni degree to justify what you know. Many people have Uni degrees and have not used them as there is no work or they lose interest in the career choice.

 

A builder who doesnt pay extra money to be a master builder or join a union is no less a builder than one who is.

Same goes for people in fitness industry you either take pride in what you do or you don't.

 

People should not be judged on a Uni degree.

 

By the way did i say anything about weight training don't think so.

Maybe conditioning, prehab, rehab if needed. How does one return from a stress fracture without any form of rehab and conditioning as an example.

I agree with you, there are people with no quals who are brilliant. Doing the study can be useful, not sure I would go to a doctor without a degree, though I am sure there are healers who do good work without degrees.

 

People should not be judged on a uni degree, can we respect that they have a body of knowledge and have demonstrated that to a defined objective standard.

 

Weight training resistance training, bands, not sure you need it for tris. Specificity is a great principle. The customer makes a a valid suggestion.

 

As far as goes rehab, don't know, was that the line of questioning from the OP? I assume they are good for that.

 

Most of the people who chase the silver bullet in my experience tend not to be doing the basics, example:

 

1. I need to work on my run form as it is my limiter, while only running 25 K a week;

 

2. I need to do plyometrics to run faster in my IM marathon, but I only run 25 K a week;

 

3. I need to do injury prevention work, core, on leg calf raises, but when I run I only do High intensity intervals and when I do run more than 25 k in my 4 week IM build I do one more run of 35 K.

 

I am no genius in anything and just do what I am told by some good people. I spent 4 years or so trying to prove to myself that I needed to run more (probably because I like it), when what I needed to do was rid and swim more and then execute well.

Edited by BarryBevan

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I agree with you, there are people with no quals who are brilliant. Doing the study can be useful, not sure I would go to a doctor without a degree, though I am sure there are healers who do good work without degrees.

Â

People should not be judged on a uni degree, can we respect that they have a body of knowledge and have demonstrated that to a defined objective standard.

Â

Weight training resistance training, bands, not sure you need it for tris. Specificity is a great principle. The customer makes a a valid suggestion.

Â

As far as goes rehab, don't know, was that the line of questioning from the OP? I assume they are good for that.

Â

Most of the people who chase the silver bullet in my experience tend not to be doing the basics, example:

Â

1. Â I need to work on my run form as it is my limiter, while only running 25 K a week;

Â

2. Â I need to do plyometrics to run faster in my IM marathon, but I only run 25 K a week;

Â

3. Â I need to do injury prevention work, core, on leg calf raises, but when I run I only do High intensity intervals and when I do run more than 25 k in my 4 week IM build I do one more run of 35 K.

Â

I am no genius in anything and just do what I am told by some good people. I spent 4 years or so trying to prove to myself that I needed to run more (probably because I like it), when what I needed to do was rid and swim more and then execute well.

 

So if a doctor kills/misdiagnose or surgeon screws up an operation on a patient but has all the uni qualifications does that means it is okay because he is Uni graduate?

 

Uni is relevant for certain things but the world has turned into bogus qualifications which really are just revenue raising. E.g. certificate III in retail.

 

PT Qualifications are way to easy to get IMO but that doesn't mean you don't stop learning new skills and research, practice and analyse to ensure you are providing the best outcome for your career and for your clients.

 

Hell man i provide PT sesdions for free for disadvantage people (elderly/disabled). I do it to help them be able to maintain strength to perform daily activities and more importantly balance. Plus it is rewarding seeing them progress and smile.

 

You can take the piss as much as want.

 

I love what I do and happily do it for free which i do quite often. Free programs for new gym members (not generic/personalised). Sometimes it seems it goes unrewarded but when you get feedback from the gym owner etc. Some people dont have the money to afford PT but II would rather see them have something to follow and some badic guidelines so they progress.

BB you may not see the benefit but some do.

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I agree with you, there are people with no quals who are brilliant. Doing the study can be useful, not sure I would go to a doctor without a degree, though I am sure there are healers who do good work without degrees.

Â

People should not be judged on a uni degree, can we respect that they have a body of knowledge and have demonstrated that to a defined objective standard.

Â

Weight training resistance training, bands, not sure you need it for tris. Specificity is a great principle. The customer makes a a valid suggestion.

Â

As far as goes rehab, don't know, was that the line of questioning from the OP? I assume they are good for that.

Â

Most of the people who chase the silver bullet in my experience tend not to be doing the basics, example:

Â

1. Â I need to work on my run form as it is my limiter, while only running 25 K a week;

Â

2. Â I need to do plyometrics to run faster in my IM marathon, but I only run 25 K a week;

Â

3. Â I need to do injury prevention work, core, on leg calf raises, but when I run I only do High intensity intervals and when I do run more than 25 k in my 4 week IM build I do one more run of 35 K.

Â

I am no genius in anything and just do what I am told by some good people. I spent 4 years or so trying to prove to myself that I needed to run more (probably because I like it), when what I needed to do was rid and swim more and then execute well.

 

So if a doctor kills/misdiagnose or surgeon screws up an operation on a patient but has all the uni qualifications does that means it is okay because he is Uni graduate?

 

Uni is relevant for certain things but the world has turned into bogus qualifications which really are just revenue raising. E.g. certificate III in retail.

 

PT Qualifications are way to easy to get IMO but that doesn't mean you don't stop learning new skills and research, practice and analyse to ensure you are providing the best outcome for your career and for your clients.

 

Hell man i provide PT sesdions for free for disadvantage people (elderly/disabled). I do it to help them be able to maintain strength to perform daily activities and more importantly balance. Plus it is rewarding seeing them progress and smile.

 

You can take the piss as much as want.

 

I love what I do and happily do it for free which i do quite often. Free programs for new gym members (not generic/personalised). Sometimes it seems it goes unrewarded but when you get feedback from the gym owner etc. Some people dont have the money to afford PT but II would rather see them have something to follow and some badic guidelines so they progress.

BB you may not see the benefit but some do.

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I agree with you, there are people with no quals who are brilliant. Doing the study can be useful, not sure I would go to a doctor without a degree, though I am sure there are healers who do good work without degrees.

Â

People should not be judged on a uni degree, can we respect that they have a body of knowledge and have demonstrated that to a defined objective standard.

Â

Weight training resistance training, bands, not sure you need it for tris. Specificity is a great principle. The customer makes a a valid suggestion.

Â

As far as goes rehab, don't know, was that the line of questioning from the OP? I assume they are good for that.

Â

Most of the people who chase the silver bullet in my experience tend not to be doing the basics, example:

Â

1. Â I need to work on my run form as it is my limiter, while only running 25 K a week;

Â

2. Â I need to do plyometrics to run faster in my IM marathon, but I only run 25 K a week;

Â

3. Â I need to do injury prevention work, core, on leg calf raises, but when I run I only do High intensity intervals and when I do run more than 25 k in my 4 week IM build I do one more run of 35 K.

Â

I am no genius in anything and just do what I am told by some good people. I spent 4 years or so trying to prove to myself that I needed to run more (probably because I like it), when what I needed to do was rid and swim more and then execute well.

 

So if a doctor kills/misdiagnose or surgeon screws up an operation on a patient but has all the uni qualifications does that means it is okay because he is Uni graduate?

 

Uni is relevant for certain things but the world has turned into bogus qualifications which really are just revenue raising. E.g. certificate III in retail.

 

PT Qualifications are way to easy to get IMO but that doesn't mean you don't stop learning new skills and research, practice and analyse to ensure you are providing the best outcome for your career and for your clients.

 

Hell man i provide PT sesdions for free for disadvantage people (elderly/disabled). I do it to help them be able to maintain strength to perform daily activities and more importantly balance. Plus it is rewarding seeing them progress and smile.

 

You can take the piss as much as want.

 

I love what I do and happily do it for free which i do quite often. Free programs for new gym members (not generic/personalised). Sometimes it seems it goes unrewarded but when you get feedback from the gym owner etc. Some people dont have the money to afford PT but II would rather see them have something to follow and some badic guidelines so they progress.

BB you may not see the benefit but some do.

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I agree with you, there are people with no quals who are brilliant. Doing the study can be useful, not sure I would go to a doctor without a degree, though I am sure there are healers who do good work without degrees.

Â

People should not be judged on a uni degree, can we respect that they have a body of knowledge and have demonstrated that to a defined objective standard.

Â

Weight training resistance training, bands, not sure you need it for tris. Specificity is a great principle. The customer makes a a valid suggestion.

Â

As far as goes rehab, don't know, was that the line of questioning from the OP? I assume they are good for that.

Â

Most of the people who chase the silver bullet in my experience tend not to be doing the basics, example:

Â

1. Â I need to work on my run form as it is my limiter, while only running 25 K a week;

Â

2. Â I need to do plyometrics to run faster in my IM marathon, but I only run 25 K a week;

Â

3. Â I need to do injury prevention work, core, on leg calf raises, but when I run I only do High intensity intervals and when I do run more than 25 k in my 4 week IM build I do one more run of 35 K.

Â

I am no genius in anything and just do what I am told by some good people. I spent 4 years or so trying to prove to myself that I needed to run more (probably because I like it), when what I needed to do was rid and swim more and then execute well.

 

So if a doctor kills/misdiagnose or surgeon screws up an operation on a patient but has all the uni qualifications does that means it is okay because he is Uni graduate?

 

Uni is relevant for certain things but the world has turned into bogus qualifications which really are just revenue raising. E.g. certificate III in retail.

 

PT Qualifications are way to easy to get IMO but that doesn't mean you don't stop learning new skills and research, practice and analyse to ensure you are providing the best outcome for your career and for your clients.

 

Hell man i provide PT sesdions for free for disadvantage people (elderly/disabled). I do it to help them be able to maintain strength to perform daily activities and more importantly balance. Plus it is rewarding seeing them progress and smile.

 

You can take the piss as much as want.

 

I love what I do and happily do it for free which i do quite often. Free programs for new gym members (not generic/personalised). Sometimes it seems it goes unrewarded but when you get feedback from the gym owner etc. Some people dont have the money to afford PT but II would rather see them have something to follow and some badic guidelines so they progress.

BB you may not see the benefit but some do.

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OK, here's a question from a guy that has to do some core work most days, just to function.

 

A while ago, I read a post from Parkside that said words to the effect of 'anyone suggesting 'firing glutes' was full of it ( I think he was referring to physios) but I never understood why.*

 

Also is the term 'contracting' and 'firing' the same thing?

 

* with apologies to Parky if I misread.

Edited by FatPom

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So if a doctor kills/misdiagnose or surgeon screws up an operation on a patient but has all the uni qualifications does that means it is okay because he is Uni graduate?

 

Uni is relevant for certain things but the world has turned into bogus qualifications which really are just revenue raising. E.g. certificate III in retail.

 

PT Qualifications are way to easy to get IMO but that doesn't mean you don't stop learning new skills and research, practice and analyse to ensure you are providing the best outcome for your career and for your clients.

 

Hell man i provide PT sesdions for free for disadvantage people (elderly/disabled). I do it to help them be able to maintain strength to perform daily activities and more importantly balance. Plus it is rewarding seeing them progress and smile.

 

You can take the piss as much as want.

 

I love what I do and happily do it for free which i do quite often. Free programs for new gym members (not generic/personalised). Sometimes it seems it goes unrewarded but when you get feedback from the gym owner etc. Some people dont have the money to afford PT but II would rather see them have something to follow and some badic guidelines so they progress.

BB you may not see the benefit but some do.

I'm not trying to take the piss, trying to find some middle ground. I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I am a pretty good systems engineer but don't have an eng degree so can't actually be one.

 

If you step back from thinking it is a personal attack maybe there is some common ground. I think you have a lot of good things to say. Maybe some of that gets lost ( I know how that feels) in the messaging.

 

When you begin posts from a position of self appointed authority, and then critique those who have taken a different path you are opening yourself up a little, you call it taking the piss.

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When I ask about the one legged calf raise and its benefits over running which has around 60 to 80 one legged calf raises per minute I am interested in knowing why it is not just as easy to do them by running.

 

accepting that there is going to be something in the isolation versus the dynamic movement of running. Running is specific while the calf raise is not so why not run.

 

If you know you collapse through one side , why not focus mentally on not collapsing or run with the treadmill and mirror

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I'm not trying to take the piss, trying to find some middle ground. I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I am a pretty good systems engineer but don't have an eng degree so can't actually be one.

Â

If you step back from thinking it is a personal attack maybe there is some common ground. I think you have a lot of good things to say. Maybe some of that gets lost ( I know how that feels) in the messaging.

Â

When you begin posts from a position of self appointed authority, and then critique those who have taken a different path you are opening yourself up a little, you call it taking the piss.

I didnt start the post and all i did was offer some advice and assistance.

Then along comes a member who thinks PT are useless because they are not uni graduates. That's where it got me off side.

I only used myself as an example of where knowledge doesnt necessarily need to come from 4 years studying for the opportunity to get a uni degree which doesn't actually give you a job (so many uni graduates and no job).

 

One of my biggest weaknesses is I over react. I am very passionate person who probably over reacts to slander and non constructive criticism. This pretty much eventuated when I was umpiring and from my father who criticised everything I did.

 

I am sorry if i over reacted.

 

Transitions is very weird place you have people who are trolls, some very nice, some seeking help and others after a laugh. Maybe that's why we kerp checking in on here.

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I didnt start the post and all i did was offer some advice and assistance.

Then along comes a member who thinks PT are useless because they are not uni graduates. That's where it got me off side.

I only used myself as an example of where knowledge doesnt necessarily need to come from 4 years studying for the opportunity to get a uni degree which doesn't actually give you a job (so many uni graduates and no job).

 

One of my biggest weaknesses is I over react. I am very passionate person who probably over reacts to slander and non constructive criticism. This pretty much eventuated when I was umpiring and from my father who criticised everything I did.

 

I am sorry if i over reacted.

 

Transitions is very weird place you have people who are trolls, some very nice, some seeking help and others after a laugh. Maybe that's why we kerp checking in on here.

you're alright don't worry nothing to apoligise for. My old man never liked much of what I did either and it is hard to believe in yourself when those closest to you tear you down as a first reaction.

 

You post a lot of good stuff, there are lots of uni grads, some good some not so good. Far too many grads think that degree buys them some sort of immunity and right to assert more knowledge than others, especially those with real life experience

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I love how you go to a chiro, physio or PT with a niggle and they lead you believe that all the imbalances in your body need months of appointments to 'correct' if you're ever gonna make it past 50. I have news for you - no one is symetrical. All the adjustments in the world won't change the structure you're born with. I think most of our niggles, as amateur athletes, are triggered by lifestyle choices. How we expect to spring to our feet and pump out 10 or 15km running sets after sitting hunched over a keyboard all day is beyond me. Add a high sugar diet of convenience foods, inadequate sleep and improper relaxation just compounds issues.

Edited by The Customer
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When I ask about the one legged calf raise and its benefits over running which has around 60 to 80 one legged calf raises per minute I am interested in knowing why it is not just as easy to do them by running.

Â

accepting that there is going to be something in the isolation versus the dynamic movement of running. Running is specific while the calf raise is not so why not run.

Â

If you know you collapse through one side , why not focus mentally on not collapsing or run with the treadmill and mirror

Have you corrected glute medius weakeness (collapse) through running on a treadmill?

 

In relation to calf raise. My example of the exercise is to involve the push off/toe off phase of running.

 

There are many runners who heavily rely on calf muscles to propel with very little glute max involvement - these are generally those who have very little knee drive and flight in their run gait ala short stride.

Running will generally not correct this without re wiring the communication between the brain and the muscles.

 

When we are babies we perform exercises unknowlingly to be able to progress to the next step.

E.g. Tummy time - baby on belly to teach muscles to engage through back etc.

Sitting up right on bottom - core control

Crawling - Multiplanar exercise to develop co ordination and strength through core, shoulders and hips

 

These are examples and apply again if you have ever had to reeducate walking patterns again.

 

Unless you have been unforunate to be badly injured and had bad illness/infection you may not understand.

 

Note: I am trying to help.

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Have you corrected glute medius weakeness (collapse) through running on a treadmill?

 

In relation to calf raise. My example of the exercise is to involve the push off/toe off phase of running.

 

There are many runners who heavily rely on calf muscles to propel with very little glute max involvement - these are generally those who have very little knee drive and flight in their run gait ala short stride.

Running will generally not correct this without re wiring the communication between the brain and the muscles.

 

When we are babies we perform exercises unknowlingly to be able to progress to the next step.

E.g. Tummy time - baby on belly to teach muscles to engage through back etc.

Sitting up right on bottom - core control

Crawling - Multiplanar exercise to develop co ordination and strength through core, shoulders and hips

 

These are examples and apply again if you have ever had to reeducate walking patterns again.

 

Unless you have been unforunate to be badly injured and had bad illness/infection you may not understand.

 

Note: I am trying to help.

I get that and I am trying to have a conversation (forums not so good for that) rather than argument (excellent for that).

 

I like simplicity, noting that there are lots of things that are not, how about doing 8 or so 30 to 1 min intervals up a 5 to 6% slope and jog down after a warm up.

 

Strides?

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I love how you go to a chiro, physio or PT with a niggle and they lead you believe that all the imbalances in your body need months of appointments to 'correct' if you're ever gonna make it past 50.

It mustn't be just you guys I annoy then! My Physio can't wait to get rid of me when I go see him!

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TC, not hard at all to find a PT to help with your strength training to enhance your SBR. As an example, There's 3 very good PT who are members of WSTC who are delivering excellent results.

Whether you accept or dismiss the PT industry, it doesn't remove the fact that as you get older, you need to do some form of strength training As part of your training for triathlon. Which I believe was a he original question.

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I get that and I am trying to have a conversation (forums not so good for that) rather than argument (excellent for that).

Â

I like simplicity, noting that there are lots of things that are not, how about doing 8 or so 30 to 1 min intervals up a  5 to 6% slope and jog down after a warm up.

Â

Strides?

IMO everyone is different and responds different to different stimulus.

Running up hill is a great tool in creating knee drive/foot landing, increased glute activity but for some in doesn't get translated back to level ground.

Also it really depends on the experience of the athlete, their background, injury history etc. Exercise prescription needs to involve all these.

 

Simple isolated exercises can be used as prehab/warm up or a retraining tool but each exercise must have a progression to it to get to the end goal. .

1. Isolated calf/glute exercise

2. Hopping one leg on spot

3. Hopping on one leg forwards

4. Running

This is from scratch obviously but you progress from one stage to the next when you become efficient.

 

Depending at where you are at to what you apply. Some great athletes may be poor at simple things but does this mean they should just ignore it? Maybe - if happy where at

Maybe not - if have niggles, lacking performance, seeking improvement.

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In most instances, schooling is about passing on accumulated decades of knowledge so graduates can build on that in a shorter overall timeframe. Without having to reinvent the wheel themselves.

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TC, not hard at all to find a PT to help with your strength training to enhance your SBR. As an example, There's 3 very good PT who are members of WSTC who are delivering excellent results.

Whether you accept or dismiss the PT industry, it doesn't remove the fact that as you get older, you need to do some form of strength training As part of your training for triathlon. Which I believe was a he original question.

GM, I repeat, the only thing that will enhance your SBR is SBR.

 

Most gym work requires some form of 'pulling' action which contradicts the 'pushing' action required in swimming in particular.

 

Again, if you want to waste your time rolling around on a swiss ball or swinging a kettle between your legs, be my guest.

 

You haven't posted a photo of yourself on AP diet thread yet.

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GM, I repeat, the only thing that will enhance your SBR is SBR.

 

Most gym work requires some form of 'pulling' action which contradicts the 'pushing' action required in swimming in particular.

 

Again, if you want to waste your time rolling around on a swiss ball or swinging a kettle between your legs, be my guest.

 

You haven't posted a photo of yourself on AP diet thread yet.

 

Kettlebells and rolling around on swiss balls maybe i need to start including this in my programming. ð

 

What are you actually pushing when you swim except when push off the wall on a turn?

Catch and pull pretty sure they are fundamentals of swimming. You PULL your hand through the water to create forward pulposion. Like to see you PUSH it and see where you end up

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Do swimmers, runners and cyclists racing these disciplines separately use S&C programs?

 

Honest question, I have no idea but assume swimmers do given their physiques.

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Famous quote from Sutto "Kieran Perkins was so weak he couldn't carry his own swim bag".

Now he didn't look weak, but the point being swimming is not really a strength sport.

 

And Sutto would have his athletes do hill reps in bike and run rather than weights

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