HFLC ruined my life......

[RunBrettRun 2,254]

39 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Seeing a sport nutritionist at the end of this month to discus hflc

Ill be shocked if they are on board with it.  I almost signed up last week to do a degree to become a dietitian before I realised it was a waste if time.

[Surfer 439]

8 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

Ill be shocked if they are on board with it.  I almost signed up last week to do a degree to become a dietitian before I realised it was a waste if time.

Im interested to hear what they have to say because my gp made the suggestion & Ive got a few other food related allerges to manage.  I can see me eating a modified version rather than strict hflc. 

Serious question - Ive read info that says 'when some people reach keto  they produce an odd body odour & bad breath'.  Anyone experience this or been told they stink ?

Edited August 24, 2018 by Surfer
Spellin

[Flanman 2,277]

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 8:11 PM, Surfer said:

Serious question - Ive read info that says 'when some people reach keto  they produce an odd body odour & bad breath'.  Anyone experience this or been told they stink ?

Yes and yes. The extent depends by person.

FM

[Surfer 439]

4 hours ago, Flanman said:

Yes and yes. The extent depends by person.

FM

😞 I'll have no friends

[FatPom 4,949]

32 minutes ago, Surfer said:

😞 I'll have no friends

You're English, living in Oz, surprised you have any now! 

[Surfer 439]

2 hours ago, FatPom said:

You're English, living in Oz, surprised you have any now! 

Spoil sport. They wouldve believed me ! 😉😉

[wetspot 98]

On 24/08/2018 at 4:19 PM, pieman said:

Quick google shows a number of Doctors and scientists questioning the quality of this study... 

As with anything, plenty of opposing views so free to do what you/we like.. 

 

Links?

I did a "quick google" and didn't find any.

I don't doubt that there are opposing views, my question is always what the best available evidence suggests.  Some people, certainly not all, are guided by the same principle. Are you aware of superior research that rebuts those conclusions, or just "opposing views"?

Of course you should feel free to do what you like regardless.

[wetspot 98]

On 24/08/2018 at 4:59 PM, RunBrettRun said:

There's no money to be made from people thriving off a low carb diet.  

I think the opposite is true.

There are authors of more than 400 "low carb" diet books on Amazon that hope you are wrong.

I think a big problem with diet advice is that there is no money to be made in advocating well known, common sense approaches.  A healthy diet involves dull stuff that people have heard before (but don't want to do). 

The money is in quick-fix fad diets.

[wetspot 98]

On 24/08/2018 at 8:11 PM, Surfer said:

Serious question - Ive read info that says 'when some people reach keto  they produce an odd body odour & bad breath'.  Anyone experience this or been told they stink ?

3

It's pretty well-known.

Despite what some might suggest, carbs are your body's preferred fuel for exercise. 

Carbs burn "clean".  The byproducts of burning carbs (glucose) for energy are carbon dioxide and water.

When you are burning fat for energy you produce ketones as a byproduct  - that's a kind of acetone; the stuff nail polish remover is made from; and similar to the smell you will give off.

Worse is burning proteins for which a byproduct is ammonia (the stuff that makes your piss smell bad).   Athletes on low carb, high protein diets tend to smell like a public lavatory.

In either case, some people may try to tell you that the smell will go away after you "adjust".  This is untrue.  What happens is that your brain will start to ignore smells that are constant. You will stop noticing your own smell.  Every time you approach someone, though, whether you know it or not, they will be wondering why you pissed yourself.

[RunBrettRun 2,254]

1 hour ago, wetspot said:

I think the opposite is true.

There are authors of more than 400 "low carb" diet books on Amazon that hope you are wrong.

I think a big problem with diet advice is that there is no money to be made in advocating well known, common sense approaches.  A healthy diet involves dull stuff that people have heard before (but don't want to do). 

The money is in quick-fix fad diets.

Haha that's funny.  Go to the supermarket and look through peoples trolleys. That's where the money is.  

 

Also in medicine to keep all the chronically I'll and overweight people alive.

[wetspot 98]

15 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

Haha that's funny.  Go to the supermarket and look through peoples trolleys. That's where the money is. 

2

This?

This?

This?

This?

[pieman 1,295]

1 hour ago, wetspot said:

Links?

I did a "quick google" and didn't find any.

I don't doubt that there are opposing views, my question is always what the best available evidence suggests.  Some people, certainly not all, are guided by the same principle. Are you aware of superior research that rebuts those conclusions, or just "opposing views"?

Of course you should feel free to do what you like regardless.

Best evidence is where this study falls down..

 

https://isupportgary.com/articles/fakenews-headlines-low-carb-diets-arent-dangerous

http://foodmed.net/2018/08/low-carb-diets-shorten-life-lancet/

http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2018/08/low-carb-diets-could-shorten-life-really/

 

[RunBrettRun 2,254]

41 minutes ago, wetspot said:

This?

This?

This?

This?

Wouldnt even fill half of one isle?  You're proving my point.

[xblane 340]

Anna's low carb cookie mix is delicious tho 😮

[RunBrettRun 2,254]

http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2016/03/23/the-top-20-supermarket-brands-australians-say-they-cannot-do-without.html

 

The top 20 brands Australians cannot live without

 The complete list of supermarket brands Australians say they cannot live without is as follows:

• Cadbury
• Arnott’s
• Heinz
• Kellogg’s
• Kraft
• Coca-Cola
• Nescafé
• Nestlé
• Lindt
• Sanitarium
• Golden Circle
• Bega Cheese
• SPC
• Edgell
• Uncle Tobys
• Streets
• Kleenex
• Vegemite
• Dick Smith Foods
• John West

[pieman 1,295]

14 minutes ago, RunBrettRun said:

http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2016/03/23/the-top-20-supermarket-brands-australians-say-they-cannot-do-without.html

 

The top 20 brands Australians cannot live without

 The complete list of supermarket brands Australians say they cannot live without is as follows:

• Cadbury
• Arnott’s
• Heinz
• Kellogg’s
• Kraft
• Coca-Cola
• Nescafé
• Nestlé
• Lindt
• Sanitarium
• Golden Circle
• Bega Cheese
• SPC
• Edgell
• Uncle Tobys
• Streets
• Kleenex
• Vegemite
• Dick Smith Foods
• John West

written by an celebrity chef?

[RunBrettRun 2,254]

2 minutes ago, pieman said:

written by an celebrity chef?

Who are Canstar Blue?

Canstar Blue is a service which evaluates and compares consumer products available for sale in Australia. It is funded by website advertising, ratings licences and lead commissions.

[roxii 6,472]

17 hours ago, wetspot said:

When you are burning fat for energy you produce ketones as a byproduct  - that's a kind of acetone; the stuff nail polish remover is made from; and similar to the smell you will give off.

When my son was born, I told my wife he smelled of acetone, she thought I was a nutjob. Went home and researched it and sure enough when they are born for the first few days or so they are in ketosis burning fat. 

17 hours ago, wetspot said:

Worse is burning proteins for which a byproduct is ammonia    

I used to get that running. Was bloody horrible. Even I didnt like being near myself after a run. 

[Guest FFF1077]

1 hour ago, RunBrettRun said:

http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2016/03/23/the-top-20-supermarket-brands-australians-say-they-cannot-do-without.html

 

The top 20 brands Australians cannot live without

 The complete list of supermarket brands Australians say they cannot live without is as follows:

• Cadbury
• Arnott’s
• Heinz
• Kellogg’s
• Kraft
• Coca-Cola
• Nescafé
• Nestlé
• Lindt
• Sanitarium
• Golden Circle
• Bega Cheese
• SPC
• Edgell
• Uncle Tobys
• Streets
• Kleenex
• Vegemite
• Dick Smith Foods
• John West

And Emu Export 😎🤘

[Ex-Hasbeen 7,455]

3 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2016/03/23/the-top-20-supermarket-brands-australians-say-they-cannot-do-without.html

 

The top 20 brands Australians cannot live without

 The complete list of supermarket brands Australians say they cannot live without is as follows:

• Cadbury
• Arnott’s
• Heinz
• Kellogg’s
• Kraft
• Coca-Cola
• Nescafé
• Nestlé
• Lindt
• Sanitarium
• Golden Circle
• Bega Cheese
• SPC
• Edgell
• Uncle Tobys
• Streets
• Kleenex
• Vegemite
• Dick Smith Foods
• John West

They're living without Dick Smith now.

[Cat Lady 745]

8 hours ago, RunBrettRun said:

http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2016/03/23/the-top-20-supermarket-brands-australians-say-they-cannot-do-without.html

 

The top 20 brands Australians cannot live without

 The complete list of supermarket brands Australians say they cannot live without is as follows:

• Cadbury
• Arnott’s
• Heinz
• Kellogg’s
• Kraft
• Coca-Cola
• Nescafé
• Nestlé
• Lindt
• Sanitarium
• Golden Circle
• Bega Cheese
• SPC
• Edgell
• Uncle Tobys
• Streets
• Kleenex
• Vegemite
• Dick Smith Foods
• John West

I could live without these, but it wouldn't be living.

[Evil Guru 62]

On 24/08/2018 at 8:11 PM, Surfer said:

Serious question - Ive read info that says 'when some people reach keto  they produce an odd body odour & bad breath'.  Anyone experience this or been told they stink ?

If you are very low carb then you will be burning ketones and will notice the smell, straight after a session, but it goes away after a shower. If you smell like urine then you aren't eating enough fats and are burning protein which is bad.

You'll also find after a long depleting run or ride that for a couple of days you'll smell of ketones when you train, its because your body is deprived of glycogen and burning ketones.

The point people seem to be missing is that you don't burn 100% glycogen, you also burn a proportion of fat for fuel,  the more fat adapted you can become the more fat you'll burn at different intensitities vs carbohydrates. Given that by nature triathlon is an endurance sport and you can't race  at 100% then the more fat you can burn the longer you can go. Its impossible to replace all of the carbohydrates you burn with eating carbohydrates over an extended training session or event, however your body fat will literally last you days.

I believe the trick to taking on a HFLC diet is to teach your body how to burn an alternative fuel, do it for a few months, once you've done this you can go back to eating more carbohydrates at selected times such as after intense or long sessions. They call it metabolic flexibility. 

When racing a longer event, if you can burn fat as a fuel and also supplement with gels etc you'll last longer than an athlete who isn't fat adapted and metabolic flexible. If you are racing for under 2 hours it probably doesn't matter, but in longer events it does.

I'd like to see the evidence that high carbohydrate intake doesn't cause inflammation, I've found the reverse and recover far faster on a lower carb and higher fat diet. Its also worth googling insulin resistance, now with a family of diabetes that is scary.

[Evil Guru 62]

• Cadbury - I don't eat.
• Arnott’s I don't eat
• Heinz I don't eat
• Kellogg’s I don't eat
• Kraft  I don't eat.
• Coca-Cola I don't eat
• Nescafé I don't eat
• Nestlé I don't eat
• Lindt - yes
• Sanitarium I don't eat
• Golden Circle I don't eat
• Bega Cheese - make some good cheeses
• SPC I don't eat
• Edgell I don't eat
• Uncle Tobys I don't eat
• Streets I don't eat
• Kleenex 
• Vegemite I don't eat
• Dick Smith Foods I don't eat
• John West I don't eat

[RunBrettRun 2,254]

16 minutes ago, Evil Guru said:

• Cadbury - I don't eat.
• Arnott’s I don't eat
• Heinz I don't eat
• Kellogg’s I don't eat
• Kraft  I don't eat.
• Coca-Cola I don't eat
• Nescafé I don't eat
• Nestlé I don't eat
• Lindt - yes
• Sanitarium I don't eat
• Golden Circle I don't eat
• Bega Cheese - make some good cheeses
• SPC I don't eat
• Edgell I don't eat
• Uncle Tobys I don't eat
• Streets I don't eat
• Kleenex 
• Vegemite I don't eat
• Dick Smith Foods I don't eat
• John West I don't eat

Which is why the studies these companies are funding will continue to call for a balanced diet.

[willie 1,546]

1 hour ago, Evil Guru said:

• Cadbury - I don't eat.
• Arnott’s I don't eat
• Heinz I don't eat
• Kellogg’s I don't eat
• Kraft  I don't eat.
• Coca-Cola I don't eat
• Nescafé I don't eat
• Nestlé I don't eat
• Lindt - yes
• Sanitarium I don't eat
• Golden Circle I don't eat
• Bega Cheese - make some good cheeses
• SPC I don't eat
• Edgell I don't eat
• Uncle Tobys I don't eat
• Streets I don't eat
• Kleenex 
• Vegemite I don't eat
• Dick Smith Foods I don't eat
• John West I don't eat

So you only eat cheese and chocolate, now theres a diet I can get on board with! 

[AA7 1,735]

6 minutes ago, willie said:

So you only eat cheese and chocolate, now theres a diet I can get on board with! 

And tissues

[Evil Guru 62]

Lots of whole foods. Chia, almond meal, grated coconut and coconut cream for breakfast, nuts for morning tea, meat, veggies for lunch and dinner. Plus butter in my coffee, also a fan of supporting Australia’s wine industry.

[pieman 1,295]

22 minutes ago, Evil Guru said:

Lots of whole foods. Chia, almond meal, grated coconut and coconut cream for breakfast, nuts for morning tea, meat, veggies for lunch and dinner. Plus butter in my coffee, also a fan of supporting Australia’s wine industry.

Didn't you read the study... you're going to die early...😂

[softy 193]

2 hours ago, Evil Guru said:

Plus butter in my coffee,

Now that's just wrong. What's is supposed to do? Surely it can't make it taste better, only leave a slick of fatty globules floating on top.

[RunBrettRun 2,254]

9 hours ago, softy said:

Now that's just wrong. What's is supposed to do? Surely it can't make it taste better, only leave a slick of fatty globules floating on top.

you're meant to blend it.  I've never had a "fat black" myself so I mustn't be the real deal.

[Ex-Hasbeen 7,455]

Can't stand coffee, any way you have it, but I may have to start drinking it. I'm on my 5th day without cola, and the caffeine withdrawal headaches are unbearable. This is harder than chocolate.

[RunBrettRun 2,254]

23 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Can't stand coffee, any way you have it, but I may have to start drinking it. I'm on my 5th day without cola, and the caffeine withdrawal headaches are unbearable. This is harder than chocolate.

I started having mine black a few years back.  It's amazing how the taste of the coffee changes as it cools down.  Worth a try.

[softy 193]

Black coffee is good with a handful of dates too. Oh...and if you can't get dates, Lindt Dark Intense Orange chocolate.

[Evil Guru 62]

Butter in my coffee is my wakeup drink before training. It adds a few calories and the caffeine wakes me up but also leaves me in a mostly fasted state so my body doesn't immediately switch to burning glycogen and instead relies more on fat for energy. Its actually pretty good once you get used to it. Bit like butter on popcorn.

[Evil Guru 62]

Coconut oils and adverse health effects. Comprehensive study that ultimately was unable to determine whether increased cardio vascular risks were influenced by coconut oil intake.

However in an n=1 study my cholestrol levels have always been far better than average and by eliminating large amounts of sugar I reduce my risk of diabetes which given a family history is of far greater risk than high cholestrol. There have also been a number of recent studies which start to debunk that high cholestrol actually is as bad as we once thought.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4892314/

 

[RunBrettRun 2,254]

9 minutes ago, Evil Guru said:

Coconut oils and adverse health effects. Comprehensive study that ultimately was unable to determine whether increased cardio vascular risks were influenced by coconut oil intake.

However in an n=1 study my cholestrol levels have always been far better than average and by eliminating large amounts of sugar I reduce my risk of diabetes which given a family history is of far greater risk than high cholestrol. There have also been a number of recent studies which start to debunk that high cholestrol actually is as bad as we once thought.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4892314/

 

I actually agree with what they were saying in that study.
 

Basically the way I read it is that a lot of people are having fat blacks and adding in all this extra coconut oil but still eating heaps of carbs.  In those people it is definitely bad, it is good when you drop the carbs and replace the energy lost with a healthy fat like coconut oil.  But combining the two is a recipe for disaster.

[trinube 1,824]

15 minutes ago, Evil Guru said:

However in an n=1 study my cholestrol levels have always been far better than average and by eliminating large amounts of sugar I reduce my risk of diabetes which given a family history is of far greater risk than high cholestrol. There have also been a number of recent studies which start to debunk that high cholestrol actually is as bad as we once thought.

From my reading, Triglycerides are a far better indication of heart risk than Cholesterol. I vaguely recall something like 60% of people who have heart attacks have 'normal' cholesterol. Based on that, normal cholesterol levels should be seen as a risk factor. I am treated for familial high cholesterol but the specialist agrees that what I eat has no bearing on my levels.

For the record, my triglycerides are .7, good cholesterol 2.1 and bad 2.0. Blood sugar in the 4s. Been HFLC approaching 6 years.

I don't drink coffee and the thought of butter in my hot chocolate makes me vom in the mouth a bit (as much as I love butter).

[Ex-Hasbeen 7,455]

2 minutes ago, trinube said:

I don't drink coffee and the thought of butter in my hot chocolate makes me vom in the mouth a bit (as much as I love butter).

Trinube, how do you have your hot chocolate? In milk?

[trinube 1,824]

44 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Trinube, how do you have your hot chocolate? In milk?

Is this a trick question? What sick bastard has HC with water?

[Ex-Hasbeen 7,455]

7 minutes ago, trinube said:

Is this a trick question? What sick bastard has HC with water?

I fully agree with you, but I've heard a lot of people say that the lactose in the milk can kick you out of ketosis. Just 1 cup can be half your daily allowance of carbs.

[trinube 1,824]

3 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I fully agree with you, but I've heard a lot of people say that the lactose in the milk can kick you out of ketosis. Just 1 cup can be half your daily allowance of carbs.

I don't know is the short answer. I'd have a hot chocolate about once a month, if that, so not too bothered. Although the wife did just buy a new machine which does them...  I'm getting a bit stricter right now as I've drifted a bit lately - must start the keto tests again as that seems to keep me on track.

[pieman 1,295]

48 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I fully agree with you, but I've heard a lot of people say that the lactose in the milk can kick you out of ketosis. Just 1 cup can be half your daily allowance of carbs.

Wife has bought some of these low calorie/carb hot chocolate sachets that you just stir into boiling water... surprisingly good, i will try and find the link

[KieranR 1,748]

Dinner tonight, whole family is going to have this one

https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/bacon-wrapped-chicken-breast-with-cauliflower-puree

 

[trinube 1,824]

12 minutes ago, pieman said:

Wife has bought some of these low calorie/carb hot chocolate sachets that you just stir into boiling water... surprisingly good, i will try and find the link

We're trying these atm - https://expresspods.com.au/collections/nespresso®/products/podista-nespresso-sugar-free-chocolate-10pk

[softy 193]

Now, I'm not trying to be a smart arse, but why have people picked up on these eating regimes? Are people trying to get healthy or lose weight or save the planet?

I've read a few times in this thread 'once you get used to it' or similar. If it tastes shithouse, why eat it? If everything you eat is fresh, unprocessed and in moderation, surely good health is the result.

[Evil Guru 62]

Depends on the regime. If its HFLC, then for me its about minimising the risk of insulin resistance, minimising inflammation and being able to enjoy most mid distance training sessions without having to suck down a lot of sports drinks of gels. 

I also enjoy whole foods and have discovered that I really don't need that many carbs and enjoy eliminating highly processed foods.

 

[Mike Del 226]

I treked across Portugal and Spain with a couple of cardiologists and spent many hours talking to them about health, food, and particularly HPLC &  Ketogenic diets. They where both scathing of its long term effects on the heart and other organs. They certainly ended any desire I had to go down this road.

[pieman 1,295]

32 minutes ago, Mike Del said:

I treked across Portugal and Spain with a couple of cardiologists and spent many hours talking to them about health, food, and particularly HPLC &  Ketogenic diets. They where both scathing of its long term effects on the heart and other organs. They certainly ended any desire I had to go down this road.

Cardiologists.... possibly the one group with more to lose than the food industry from people going lower carb.. 🤔

[Ex-Hasbeen 7,455]

I think the biggest issue with people doing low carb diets, is that they go high fat, but they don't reduce the carbs enough, so just end up with a high fat diet, and their body keeps running on carbs.

[Toolish 187]

13 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I think the biggest issue with people doing low carb diets, is that they go high fat, but they don't reduce the carbs enough, so just end up with a high fat diet, and their body keeps running on carbs.

You coud be talking about me.  Love the idea of HFLC but can't find the will power to cut the carbs...and most of the carbs are sugary crap to be honest.  I love the Diet Doctor meals but still end up snacking on suger later at night.