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An athlete you coach starts doping...


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Hypothetical question...

 

If an athlete you coach magically starts running and cycling faster than ever before on little or no training (lazy bugger never follows his programme) and you strongly suspect he's taking PEDs what would you do?

 

(by little or no training, I mean this imaginary person has been averaging 11km per week of running and rides his bike 76km per week for the current year after doing stuff all in 2015)

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Hypothetical question...

 

If an athlete you coach magically starts running and cycling faster than ever before on little or no training (lazy bugger never follows his programme) and you strongly suspect he's taking PEDs what would you do?

 

(by little or no training, I mean this imaginary person has been averaging 11km per week of running and rides his bike 76km per week for the current year after doing stuff all in 2015)

Interesting PEDS that improve performance like that. Most just allow you to recover after more trainging.

 

Could you find out what he's taking? I'm sure there's a lot of guys on here would be interested. Hypothetically of course.

 

 

 

But seriously, Start dropping hints that you know. If they stay on, and you are certain they are, mention your suspicions to the governing body, or drop them straight away.

 

 

 

And by "you", I mean the coach of this person. It's easier to just say "you".

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Hypothetical question...

 

If an athlete you coach magically starts running and cycling faster than ever before on little or no training (lazy bugger never follows his programme) and you strongly suspect he's taking PEDs what would you do?

 

(by little or no training, I mean this imaginary person has been averaging 11km per week of running and rides his bike 76km per week for the current year after doing stuff all in 2015)

How do you know Peter is on the PEDs?

Cheers

Ivp

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Consistently running 11km and cycling 76km per week would see a massive improvement if they had previously been running 2km and riding 20km sporadically, it's all relative

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Hypothetical question...

ÃÂ

If an athlete you coach magically starts running and cycling faster than ever before on little or no training (lazy bugger never follows his programme) and you strongly suspect he's taking PEDs what would you do?

ÃÂ

(by little or no training, I mean this imaginary person has been averaging 11km per week of running and rides his bike 76km per week for the current year after doing stuff all in 2015)

Ask James Hird?

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You have a professional obligation to report your suspicions to the relevant anti-doping authority in my opinion. I don't think there's a grey area. Whether you also choose to counsel or drop them as well is more a matter of conscience.

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bit rough to report them for getting better, they might be doing secret training, maybe they have started working with another group on the side as something is not quite working in the coaching with you.

 

A chat about the improvement is probably a good start before WADA get called in

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I would stop coaching them.

 

Imagine your reputation if an athlete you coach tests positive.

 

Totally out of your hands nf i think 99% of people would take your side but 1% can make a lot of noise.

 

Go with your gut.

 

Then report them via a phone call. Not email.

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A chat about the improvement is probably a good start before WADA get called in

That's what the anti-doping bodies are there for. You have a suspicion based on sudden improvement without substantial increase in training load and (presumably) other factors like historical response to training load. The local ADA can investigate or choose not to from there. You don't need proof, that's what the investigators exist for. To my mind it is no different to the professional obligations of those who work with children to report suspicions of abuse, the consequences of not doing it are greater than those of doing it and being wrong.

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Is there really a drug that allows you to get better with no training? I thought most would improve muscle recovery to allow you to train harder but not magically make you faster.

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Maybe he found a new coach and is now training his ass off

Every time this guy farts he puts in on Strava, so no, not likely. He's also fatter than ever so I see no evidence of any alleged extra training.

 

The guy lives in a Middle Eastern Country which is kinda lawless as far as doping goes (it's not Bahrain).

He's always the first person to speculate who's taking PEDS and always saying stuff like, "what if ..... started doping, imagine how fast they would be?"

Last year he told me a member of a M.E. National cycling team gave him the name of his 'doctor'.

Yesterday he told us that his 'doctor' had put him on 'supplements' for the last 3 months which coincides with the improvement.

We asked what the injection scar on his arm was for and he said Vitamin D.

He said this week he will get his Haemocrit levels tested to see if there was an improvement after the supplement treatment.

 

As far as I know, Haemocrit is determined at birth and there's nothing you can do to increase it that is legal.

 

Bascially, in 3 months he's gone from running 5:30-6min kms to 4:15-4.30 per km off a very challenging 2hr hill rep bike session.

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Every time this guy farts he puts in on Strava, so no, not likely. He's also fatter than ever so I see no evidence of any alleged extra training.

 

The guy lives in a Middle Eastern Country which is kinda lawless as far as doping goes (it's not Bahrain).

He's always the first person to speculate who's taking PEDS and always saying stuff like, "what if ..... started doping, imagine how fast they would be?"

Last year he told me a member of a M.E. National cycling team gave him the name of his 'doctor'.

Yesterday he told us that his 'doctor' had put him on 'supplements' for the last 3 months which coincides with the improvement.

We asked what the injection scar on his arm was for and he said Vitamin D.

He said this week he will get his Haemocrit levels tested to see if there was an improvement after the supplement treatment.

 

As far as I know, Haemocrit is determined at birth and there's nothing you can do to increase it that is legal.

 

Bascially, in 3 months he's gone from running 5:30-6min kms to 4:15-4.30 per km off a very challenging 2hr hill rep bike session.

Those pace improvements are similar to someone else on here who's just getting back into running.....LOL [emoji3]

 

Just joking around [emoji1][emoji1]

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Well if reporting him won't work then I'd be dropping him like a hot potato.

When you say ' he told us' it sounds like you are asking him in front of others? Why not have a 1-1 with and tell him your concerns about how the numbers look?

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You can't do anything in reality, there is no evidence so why waste time and thought on it.

 

If you're coaching them, drop them re potential reputation issues and free your mind of the doubt. There is nothing untrue in saying " it just doesn't feel right, time to get a new coach " .

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You have a professional obligation to report your suspicions to the relevant anti-doping authority in my opinion. I don't think there's a grey area. Whether you also choose to counsel or drop them as well is more a matter of conscience.

This. The more suspicions aren't reported, the more people will realise how easy it is to cheat.

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If the coach is serious about coaching and not just interested in collecting fees, this athlete probably should have been dropped a while ago.

The coach has never collected a cent off this guy and has been sending him a programme designed for herself and her close group of training friends so that they can train together and target the same races in the area for nearly 3 years. He has always been the laziest one in the group and is expert in the field of 'excuses'. After 3 years, the coach is very familiar with what he is capable of physically.

On the other hand, he promotes the legit side of the coach's business and has brought in 3 paying customers.

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Those pace improvements are similar to someone else on here who's just getting back into running.....LOL [emoji3]

Just joking around [emoji1][emoji1]

:lol: I've only spent about a week in the Middle East, but I did live in Bankstown for a long time, that might count.

 

Oh and I ran slower today to throw the testers off

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I have a guilty conscience :lol:

 

The Customer, would you want the sort of clients that this guy would be referring.

 

Often I think you can tell more about a coach by who they don't coach rather than who they do.

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I have a guilty conscience :lol:

 

The Customer, would you want the sort of clients that this guy would be referring.

 

Often I think you can tell more about a coach by who they don't coach rather than who they do.

It's early days and beggars can't be choosers at this point. One of the dudes he brought in is great value and I believe his improvement is legit because he would crawl over broken glass to train and is a puritan when it comes to his diet and ethics.

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It's early days and beggars can't be choosers at this point. One of the dudes he brought in is great value and I believe his improvement is legit because he would crawl over broken glass to train and is a puritan when it comes to his diet and ethics.

Do they have broken glass in ME ?

I thought anything like that would be cleaned up instantly by the peasants

Cheers

Ivp

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The coach has never collected a cent off this guy and has been sending him a programme designed for herself and her close group of training friends so that they can train together and target the same races in the area for nearly 3 years. He has always been the laziest one in the group and is expert in the field of 'excuses'. After 3 years, the coach is very familiar with what he is capable of physically.

On the other hand, he promotes the legit side of the coach's business and has brought in 3 paying customers.

 

mmm... That is a tough one.

 

I'll be honest, I really don't know what I would do. There is a concern that if he stays part of the group his nefarious methods may be picked up by others. Then again, if he is asked to leave other athletes(who don't know the full story) may see that as unfair and also leave. He may also turn his efforts to driving away new athletes.

 

I'd probably chuck it all in, people are too much trouble to deal with.

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Bascially, in 3 months he's gone from running 5:30-6min kms to 4:15-4.30 per km off a very challenging 2hr hill rep bike session.

 

I didn't think PEDs could do anything like that! Especially if still overweight. Course cutting?

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I really don't know much about what PEDs can and can't do but steroid use is rife in the M.E. due to the body building craze. I even know a guy who gives it to his racing pigeons.

 

I have seen very average age group triathletes go from zero to hero within 6 months and still look like they have not done any work - this country is small, you see and hear who trains hard and regularly. The 3 that everyone is suspicious about have European trainers/coaches and they have said that their coaches send them 'supplements'. Never specific about what kind of supplements.

 

Ever seen an 85+ kg dude running 4min kays for a half Ironman? It's weird. Particularly when, at the same weight, he could only manage a 2hr half mara 12 months prior.

 

Spoke to the guy in question yesterday about our concerns for his 'health' and asked if he was sure he knew what the 'doctor' was prescribing? He got a little defensive and said he could be trusted. Then he said that it wasn't worth training at all because people would just accuse him of cheating if he improved. I guess that gives him one more excuse not to train out of the hundreds he has come up with already (including "I set 3 alarm clocks and none of them went off" and "my wiggle order has not arrived yet so I had no cycling socks")

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steroid use is rife in the M.E. due to the body building craze. I even know a guy who gives it to his racing pigeons.

 

 

I think you better have a look at who you hang around with :-)

Cheers

Ivp

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Ever seen an 85+ kg dude running 4min kays for a half Ironman? It's weird. Particularly when, at the same weight, he could only manage a 2hr half mara 12 months prior.

 

)

I think I need to talk to you mate with the pigeons and get some pigeon food!!!!
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I know a little bit about peds and there is no way you could improve like that. No way at all. Something else going on here.

Serious question: what sort of % improvement does an average person get from taking a "typical" mix (whatever that might be) of banned substances? ie are we talking about a small edge that is really only relevant if you are already racing at the pointy end of the field

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Without an increase in training not a lot to imo. The real key is to be able to push harder for longer in training and recovering quicker.

No way would any ped take anyone from 5min kms to 4min kms without a shot load of training.

I would say a 10% increase at best.

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Didn't PeePee do some kind of sanctioned EPO programme? i remember him saying his ability to recover from hard sessions and back up the next day was the biggest thing he noticed.

Do you have Peter on block?

 

I remember peepee from here said he was on am epo trial and could smash out 150+ rides plus running amd swimming and get up and do it all again the next day fully rested.

Ps I don't blame you if you do LOL

Cheers

Ivp

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Didn't PeePee do some kind of sanctioned EPO programme? i remember him saying his ability to recover from hard sessions and back up the next day was the biggest thing he noticed.

 

Yes. Freak here in Vic did too

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Do you have Peter on block?

 

 

Ps I don't blame you if you do LOL

Cheers

Ivp

 

 

No I don't. My only excuse is I typed whilst on an 'important' conference call. :shy:

 

Sorry Peter!

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No I don't. My only excuse is I typed whilst on an 'important' conference call. :shy:

 

 

No such thing as an "important" conference call .... just ones you have to attend and fall asleep in until someone says your name and wakes you up. At this point you can go either: -

 

a) the "bluff" - try and wrestle what you think the question is to the ground;

B) the "mute" - "sorry, my phone was on mute. Could you please repeat the question?";

c) the "blocker" - "that sounds like a good question for [insert name of colleague] who knows more about this than I"; or

d) All three of the above!

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No such thing as an "important" conference call .... just ones you have to attend and fall asleep in until someone says your name and wakes you up. At this point you can go either: -

 

a) the "bluff" - try and wrestle what you think the question is to the ground;

B) the "mute" - "sorry, my phone was on mute. Could you please repeat the question?";

c) the "blocker" - "that sounds like a good question for [insert name of colleague] who knows more about this than I"; or

d) All three of the above!

 

 

My usual approach is 'sorry I was on mute because I was coughing badly'

 

or

 

'I'm working from home and my connection dropped out'

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Perhaps this is the time to take a stand? The alternative is to be known as the coach who turns a blind-eye. I am not sure who this guy's coach is (you mention European trainers) but if it is someone close to you, I'd be advising them to drop him quick smart.

 

If the guy he bought in is good value and has a great ethic, my thoughts are he is just going to be relieved that the guy has been booted. Their approaches seem to be at odds and I think the driven guy will appreciate the stand.

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Mark Cucuzella, 35yo, 190lbs running for the US Marine Corps in the 2002 Marine Corps Marathon and finishing in 2:34:48.

Former Tampa Bay Bucanneers lineman John Cannon at 235 lbs ran a 3 hour 20 minute marathon in Tucson December 2001. Not a sub- 3hr but what pace at at 107kg!

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Mark Cucuzella, 35yo, 190lbs running for the US Marine Corps in the 2002 Marine Corps Marathon and finishing in 2:34:48.

Former Tampa Bay Bucanneers lineman John Cannon at 235 lbs ran a 3 hour 20 minute marathon in Tucson December 2001. Not a sub- 3hr but what pace at at 107kg!Â

I'm confused

Is this post to

Prove peds for fast running if your a larger fello?

 

The Marines and NFL are rife with peds

Cheers

Ivp

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