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Pretty sure Captain Cook planted a flag in the Torres Strait and claimed the east coast of Australia for England, so that sounds pretty invadey to me.

 

If you roll into my house and plonk your stubbie holder on my coffee table and claim it as your house, I am calling that an invasion.

Given that the poms did nothing to pursue this flag planting for18 years it's hardly proof positive of intent. What the flag planting was really about was a cock blocking manoeuvre aimed at the French

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I was talking with an aboriginal bloke at work recently and we were talking about this issue. It was interesting to hear from him that as far as he is concerned, many aboriginal people just want to move on, but without acknowledgement of what happened for them, they can't. And they feel that needs to come from the top and he was saying he doubts any political party appears willing to do that. What Rudd attempted to do was perceived is mere lip service. And he said it's not about a legal position. They just want what they experienced acknowledged rather than denied. It was an interesting chat.

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Does anyone know what the "legal" effects are? I Interneted and couldn't find anything, looks like a BS excuse to me.

 

What exactly are the reasons against recognition of the aboriginal inhabitants of Australia before British Settlement in the constitution? From my understanding all the other former British Colonies have done it.

 

There is a generation of aboriginal people living in Australia right now that were kidnapped, abused and forced into slavery by the federal government FFS. The current federal government should be bending over backward to acknowledge them and swear an oath on their first day at work they will never let anything like it occur again.

 

If the politicians and bureaucrats can't do this without causing "legal issues"(whatever the hell that means) they should be ashamed of their incompetence... If, on the other hand, they won't do it because they think they might loose some votes... They are f'ing disgraceful human beings.

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Does anyone know what the "legal" effects are? I Interneted and couldn't find anything, looks like a BS excuse to me.

 

What exactly are the reasons against recognition of the aboriginal inhabitants of Australia before British Settlement in the constitution? From my understanding all the other former British Colonies have done it.

 

There is a generation of aboriginal people living in Australia right now that were kidnapped, abused and forced into slavery by the federal government FFS. The current federal government should be bending over backward to acknowledge them and swear an oath on their first day at work they will never let anything like it occur again.

 

If the politicians and bureaucrats can't do this without causing "legal issues"(whatever the hell that means) they should be ashamed of their incompetence... If, on the other hand, they won't do it because they think they might loose some votes... They are f'ing disgraceful human beings.

 

And yet the likes of Andrew Bolt and Alan Jones refuse to accept that there was even a stolen generation. ....

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Does anyone know what the "legal" effects are? I Interneted and couldn't find anything, looks like a BS excuse to me.

 

What exactly are the reasons against recognition of the aboriginal inhabitants of Australia before British Settlement in the constitution? From my understanding all the other former British Colonies have done it.

 

 

Reparations.

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didn't we say 'sorry'. i am unsure what we are meant to do. We also have specific jobs for the indigenous and every government i have ever known has tried to fix the problem. I don't know what needs to be done, It is not dissimilar to the US issue with the Indians or other countries with their indigenous persons. I am also sure there are some indigenous persons here that are happy for the opportunities they do receive in this country.

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didn't we say 'sorry'. i am unsure what we are meant to do. We also have specific jobs for the indigenous and every government i have ever known has tried to fix the problem. I don't know what needs to be done, It is not dissimilar to the US issue with the Indians or other countries with their indigenous persons. I am also sure there are some indigenous persons here that are happy for the opportunities they do receive in this country.

 

It really wasn't that long ago that the Australian government carried out child abduction racism and slavery, people from the stolen generation are alive today. Damn straight they should have to pay reparations.

 

Just for a moment imagine your grandparent was treated that way by the federal government. Would you be appeased with a "sorry"?

 

The scars from the atrocious acts of the Australian government are generational, families grow up with personal stories of the government forcibly removing members of their family because of racism. This isn't some invading army or military dictatorship that will be overthrown, this is the democratically elected government. There was nobody they could turn to, there was no help, they couldn't even cross the border to the "safety" of a refugee camp.

 

If that happened to your grandma and grampa would you and your parents just move on? Would you have the world view and the life you have now do you think?

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but they asked for the 'sorry'. They asked for land. We do provide some funding for them, what will they do with more money or reparations?

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What would you want, if it were your grandparents, or if it happened today and the government took your children from you because of your race?

 

The money doesn't matter, what matters is if the Aboriginal people of Australia want recognition in our constitution they should have it. If the people that were considered "Fauna" by the Australian Federal Government up until 1967 need extra funding, support and job assistance for the next 200 years, they should get it. Because the government fcuked up and while the white people of Australia's lives improved dramatically over the past 50 years, the Aboriginal people's did not.

 

I don't care if it costs 10 new submarines, or empties 20 off shore accounts, if it were my family the government would never be forgiven, ever. But pretending the government have done enough, or that it might cost money to acknowledge the Aboriginal people in the constitution is abhorrently shameful in my opinion, the government are spineless cowards.

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i am unsure what funding they do get now, but didnt know they got nothing. I just dont know if throwing more money at them solves the problem and if funding should be provided to 4th 5th 6th 7th generations. i did know of one of our workers was part aboriginal who was receiving free taxi transport. Though this was many years ago. I dont have any bias but it does astound me that every government seems to unable to succeed in solving any problem. I feel it is a more important to break down any racism that may still exist.

 

I mean, it wasnt that long ago in the US that they were using colored people as slaves, which is just as abhorent as the stolen generation, but they havent thrown money at them. Rather they drafted a constitution that states, 'all men are created equal' . So just in my opinion, at some stage we all have to move forward, but still learn from any mistakes.

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It really wasn't that long ago that the Australian government carried out child abduction racism and slavery, people from the stolen generation are alive today. Damn straight they should have to pay reparations.

 

Just for a moment imagine your grandparent was treated that way by the federal government. Would you be appeased with a "sorry"?

 

The scars from the atrocious acts of the Australian government are generational, families grow up with personal stories of the government forcibly removing members of their family because of racism. This isn't some invading army or military dictatorship that will be overthrown, this is the democratically elected government. There was nobody they could turn to, there was no help, they couldn't even cross the border to the "safety" of a refugee camp.

 

If that happened to your grandma and grampa would you and your parents just move on? Would you have the world view and the life you have now do you think?

 

I think a lot of people forget this wasn't just a race issue. There were a lot of white babies removed from predominately single mothers as well. The argument seemed to be that if you didn't fit the stereotypical family setup you couldn't be trusted with a child.

 

From what I can see, one of the unintended consequences of the stolen generation these days is that there are indigenous kids that don't get removed from family situations that are horrendous. Then again DOCS (or whatever they are called) seem to regularly get hauled over the coals for white kids being left in homes when they shouldn't be, with some terrible consequences as well.

Edited by Gundy
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My wife being a teacher with a background in social work, I have seen/heard about a lot of the work of DoCS (or whatever its called now) and its a disgrace.

 

I know they are probably over-worked and under-staffed, but some of this stuff my wife has seen makes you want to cry.

 

As an example, she had a young girl in her class a few years back, maybe 6-7. My wife immediately recognised the signs of physical and sexual abuse .... despite the fact the she came to school in the same clothes for days on end, wasn't fed, not been bathed for weeks etc.

 

DoCS approached but 'not enough evidence' ...

 

Got to the stage where my wife and the principal were terrified of school holidays, as they were convinced she might not get safely through a week or two at home and make it back to school next term.

 

it took TWO YEARS of teachers harping at the department to get something done. By this time my wife had left the school. A year after she left my wife got an email from her old principal to say the kid had been removed from her family...

 

TWO ****ING YEARS!!!

 

And if the Daily Telegraph knew something the first hing published would be 'why didn't the teachers do something?'....

 

My wife has a dozen stories like that...

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It really wasn't that long ago that the Australian government carried out child abduction racism and slavery, people from the stolen generation are alive today. Damn straight they should have to pay reparations.

 

Just for a moment imagine your grandparent was treated that way by the federal government. Would you be appeased with a "sorry"?

 

The scars from the atrocious acts of the Australian government are generational, families grow up with personal stories of the government forcibly removing members of their family because of racism. This isn't some invading army or military dictatorship that will be overthrown, this is the democratically elected government. There was nobody they could turn to, there was no help, they couldn't even cross the border to the "safety" of a refugee camp.

 

If that happened to your grandma and grampa would you and your parents just move on? Would you have the world view and the life you have now do you think?

This

Indigenous folk were royally screwed over for multiple generations and the rest of the country benefited from cheap/free/slave labour in rural industries.

We will probably be dealing with this for generations to come. The debt owed is huge, the debate is about how it can be addressed.

What would you want, if it were your grandparents, or if it happened today and the government took your children from you because of your race?

 

The money doesn't matter, what matters is if the Aboriginal people of Australia want recognition in our constitution they should have it. If the people that were considered "Fauna" by the Australian Federal Government up until 1967 need extra funding, support and job assistance for the next 200 years, they should get it. Because the government fcuked up and while the white people of Australia's lives improved dramatically over the past 50 years, the Aboriginal people's did not.

 

I don't care if it costs 10 new submarines, or empties 20 off shore accounts, if it were my family the government would never be forgiven, ever. But pretending the government have done enough, or that it might cost money to acknowledge the Aboriginal people in the constitution is abhorrently shameful in my opinion, the government are spineless cowards.

 

Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk

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I know they are probably over-worked and under-staffed, but some of this stuff my wife has seen makes you want to cry.

 

 

 

I hate thinking about what these poor kids endure.

Even moreso now that I've got kids of my own.

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Serious question - how many generations does "debts" get held for before a line is drawn under it? Just would like to know before I go discover any Viking or Goth heritage as it could be bloody expensive if this stuff goes back to the start of time.

 

If we all carry on the prejudices and injustices of all of our ancestors, surprised Romeo & Juliet is not an every day occurrence by now

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Serious question - how many generations does "debts" get held for before a line is drawn under it? Just would like to know before I go discover any Viking or Goth heritage as it could be bloody expensive if this stuff goes back to the start of time.

 

 

 

MM says forever.

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The thing is though, we're still doing it. We don't treat the aboriginal people with the respect they deserve. We see there are certain problems in their communities and swoop in to fix it for them. Have a look at the Northern Territory Intervention. We can't help ourselves. We're idiots. Unless and until we stop this kind of crap and work WITH the aboriginal people, it's going to continue.

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Serious question - how many generations does "debts" get held for before a line is drawn under it? Just would like to know before I go discover any Viking or Goth heritage as it could be bloody expensive if this stuff goes back to the start of time.

 

If we all carry on the prejudices and injustices of all of our ancestors, surprised Romeo & Juliet is not an every day occurrence by now

 

This is not a family feud over honor, or even war, it is the democratically elected government implementing racist legislation and abducting children because of their skin colour. Did you miss the bit about being classified as "Fauna" up until 1967? Quite a jump from 1967 to "the beginning of time", we just don't even need to go back that far, is the Prime Minsters life time enough for you?

The government can stop paying for their mistakes as soon as Aboriginal Australians have the same life expectancy, living standards, educational standards and employment opportunities that other Australians have. Pretty straight forward. If the government wastes money failing to achieve the goal... well that is just another failure of government, the people with 10 years less life expectancy are not the ones to blame.

 

Do you genuinely think you would be over it by now if your grandparents were abducted by the government and forced into re-education centers with signs saying "act white black, think white black, be white black" on the walls and then forced into child labor for other families?

 

The government should Acknowledge the Aboriginal people in the constitution, they can do it next year on the 50th anniversary of Aboriginals being granted full citizenship.

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mm, i believe in equality so agree with you. i don't know if i believe in continually treating our indigenous as special, over some of our refugees so am definitely all for full citizenship. I think we can't keep dwelling on the past mistakes of our ancestors. We should always acknowledge that this was a disgraceful time, but hopefully we have learnt. Even the germans had to move on after the atrocities of world war 2. We remember what happened but we shouldn't continually pay for it. We should spend our time and money stamping out any racism or unequal rights.

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We just need to pay for it until it is fixed, until Aboriginal people have the same health, life expectancy and education levels as other Australians.

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fair enough. i read where tony cut some funding last year or maybe it was 2014. it didn't get a lot of attention unfortunately.

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We just need to pay for it until it is fixed, until Aboriginal people have the same health, life expectancy and education levels as other Australians.

Self determination comes from dealing with your circumstances using the resources you have available and taking responsibility for your outcomes. It does not come from focusing on who is to blame for your circumstances or what you don't have to fix it and ego should provide it.

 

There's no doubt that our society as a whole is racist and that aboriginals start from a position of disadvantage but throwing resources at the problem doesn't fix that. We should be exposing the examples (and there are plenty) of those who have succeeded in spite of the barriers placed in front of them instead of providing excuses for those that choose to perpetuate the circle misfortune.

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We just need to pay for it until it is fixed, until Aboriginal people have the same health, life expectancy and education levels as other Australians.

But how do we pay for it? Throwing money at it doesn't work. My employer is trying to provide services for communities through Gov funding, but is meeting brick walls from other communities not allowing us to do it, or creating such issues that it costs twice as much to do it. Or in an even worse case, being blocked from providing a service by other parts of the community that is asking for it in the first place.

 

There has to be a way, we just need to find it.

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen
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Once again it is not about the money. If the only solution the government has is to throw money at it then that is the Governments solution, if it fails then it is the Governments failure.

 

Some people still think Aboriginal Australians should just "get over it". I think that attitude is ignorant, I am surprised so many believe they themselves could "overcome" how their direct relations have been treated this way(I am not talking about ancestors here). Particularly when so many other people who really have experienced this, haven't managed to overcome their circumstances. There may very well be lessons learned in the success stories, the government should look at incorporating that into their programs.

 

Yeah, I will be called a lefty or communist or whatever. But I see a demographic the government has committed horrible crimes against that are now in need of assistance because of those crimes, they should get help until they no longer need it. The government doesn't get to wash their hands of it after a certain dollar amount is reached.

 

The Australian Government blows vast amounts of money on failed projects, ill-conceived policies and subsidising dying industries. I really don't think this is an area were the recipients of the funds should take the blame for not improving their own life expectancy.

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Quite a jump from 1967 to "the beginning of time",

 

Agree, however my question still stands unanswered. How far back do you believe we need to go before we are not held to account for the sins of our fore fathers?

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