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Pushbike WARS (Sydney)

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Police have been slammed on social media for booking cyclists for speeding and running stop signs.
Sydney's Liam Kelly posted a photograph on Facebook of NSW Police pulling over cyclists at Centennial Park, in the city's east, where officers had set up a 'completely and utterly unbelievable' speed trap.
Mr Kelly said the picture was snapped on Wednesday just after 8.30am and police were fining cyclists for speeding in the park's 30km/h zone.
'The NSW police force (under instruction from Duncan Gay?) SET UP [sic] a speed trap and "letter of the law" ENTRAPMENT of cyclists,' he wrote.
'They booked cyclists for going through a stop sign that is placed at the bottom of an very steep hill where there has always been safe "flow" of bikes rolling down and flowing through.
'To my knowledge, no incidents have even been reported at the intersection. In fact, for a cyclist stopping there potentially DANGEROUS!!!!! [sic]'
Mr Kelly said police were also enforcing the park's 30km/h speed limit on cyclists.
'They also booked cyclists for speeding in the park,' he said.
'Centenial [sic] Park has a stupid 30kmph limit (slower than at a children's crossing) and it's never been enforced for cyclists as 30kmph requires braking not cycling.
'This is another worrying and ethically questionable practice by the Nsw [sic] police under instruction from Duncan Gay.'
Mr Kelly also encouraged people who were fined to take it up in court.
'These types of fines are discretionary. Also, if we clog the court system they may well listen up and stop persecuting cyclists,' he said.
The speed trap was part of NSW Police's Operation Pedro that saw more than 200 cyclists caught riding without helmets and more than 100 disobeying traffic lights.
Operation Pedro was started in early 2014 following a rise in injury and fatal accidents in Sydney's metropolitan area.
But Mr Kelly was not the only who had a problem with the speed trap.
'Wow! Thanks for sharing mate..this is beyond a joke. what a waste of policing resources [sic],' one man wrote.
'This country is f***ed. Of all the crimes that occur, this is what they see as best use of police time,' another man said.
A third person agreed, saying: 'Cycling used to be fun.'
Operation Pedro took place at major intersections in central Sydney and surrounding suburbs that focused on cyclist and pedestrian safety.
Last year, 61 pedestrians and seven cyclists died on NSW roads.
'Cyclists and pedestrians are road users too. All too often police are seeing pedestrians tuned into electronic devices, oblivious to traffic conditions, stepping out onto the road, while cyclists are undertaking risky behaviours putting them at danger of being injured or killed,' Assistant Commissioner John Harley said.
'We are out there to make sure all road users share the road safely and that those that set out on their journey, make it home in one piece.
“If we detect serious breaches, we will be speaking to those that put their own lives and the lives of other road users at risk.
'Police are committed to enforcing road safety everyday of the year, no matter the weather conditions or time of day.'
A total of 205 fines were also handed out to motorists.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464746/Police-trying-bust-cyclists-SPEEDING-Sydney-park.html#ixzz41ElDmS00
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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How did they pull them over? Couldn't cyclists "caught" in a speeding trap just feign confusion and keep riding... Or were police prepared for high speed pursuit in centennial park if necessary, choppers on stand by maybe?

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I hope they checked them for bells when they pulled them up. Be thankful this didn't happen next week or they'd be checking them for ID as well.

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The red light fines are a complete joke. It's a cynical trap used for no other reason than to generate revenue and has nothing to do with improving safety.

 

The riders choose to move with the pedestrian green which goes on first because waiting for the road green invites extra danger from impatient drivers from behind as the riders take longer to get going and up to speed and move over to the bike lane on the other side of the intersection.

 

Cyclists are being fined for taking the safest option and reducing the delay to motorists. It's lunacy and typical of this city. So glad I'm leaving.

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I hope they checked them for bells when they pulled them up. Be thankful this didn't happen next week or they'd be checking them for ID as well.

 

One of the riders pinged in Centennial Park that I know was requested by the police officer to provide their state issued photo ID.

Edited by Alex Simmons

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Its going to make the morning group rides farked in there.

 

30k speed limit.

 

Nsw is farked

Edited by Peter

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I have it on good authority that carrying a photo of photo ID is good enough, you may want to get a photo of this letter to save with it... just in case. Also it appears no cyclist will ever be pulled over for an ID check, random or otherwise unless they are committing an offense. Again you may have to produce a copy of this signed letter from the Minister to assure the Police officer understands they are making a mistake.

 

Would a police officer really write a ticket out with details from a digital image of a Drivers License from someones phone without checking it's authenticity? Because someone could Photoshop an image of their Drivers license and swap the name and address with that of... Duncan Gay for example. That would be embarrassing. So if the Police are going to verify ID's anyway, what's the point?

 

This is so stupid and pointless it is not funny, unless of course there is a different motivation for requiring cyclists to carry an image or photo id. Like maybe to send a message? I am also unsure how Emergency services will be able to view the photo on my phone if it is locked. I will be sure to request clarification on these points when I reply to Mr Gay.

 

 

EVK2wLX.png

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One of the riders pinged in Centennial Park that I know was requested by the police officer to provide their state issued photo ID.

Alex, what is this " state issued photo ID" of which you speak?

until next week there is no law to carry ID

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Mr Kelly said police were also enforcing the park's 30km/h speed limit on cyclists.
'They also booked cyclists for speeding in the park,' he said.
'Centenial [sic] Park has a stupid 30kmph limit (slower than at a children's crossing) and it's never been enforced for cyclists as 30kmph requires braking not cycling.

 

This just shows the intelligence or mentality of a selfish cyclist.

The "stupid" 30km/h speed limit is there because it's a Park. There are hundreds and thousand of people who visit the park. Walkers, runners, roller bladers, cyclists, kids on bikes, cars, horses, skate boarders etc. etc. Most if not all of those examples can be very unpredictable in a parks surroundings.

 

Braking not cycling??? What.................. I'm not the smartest tack in the box but really???

'I'm unreal and I can go fast so I should be allowed to' Sounds more like that if you ask me.

 

 

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This just shows the intelligence or mentality of a selfish cyclist.

The "stupid" 30km/h speed limit is there because it's a Park. There are hundreds and thousand of people who visit the park. Walkers, runners, roller bladers, cyclists, kids on bikes, cars, horses, skate boarders etc. etc. Most if not all of those examples can be very unpredictable in a parks surroundings.

 

Braking not cycling??? What.................. I'm not the smartest tack in the box but really???

'I'm unreal and I can go fast so I should be allowed to' Sounds more like that if you ask me.

 

 

 

 

To remain within the speed limit in the park, you will have to ride your brakes for many sections. Given the nature of the road - one way, wide, smooth, with dedicated bike lane, and good awareness of cyclists in there - the limit is unnecessarily slow IMO. Even school zones operate with 40km/h limits and have far more dangerous conditions.

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Alex, what is this " state issued photo ID" of which you speak?

until next week there is no law to carry ID

 

Driver's licence or the state issued ID card.

 

I wasn't commenting on the law or when it takes affect, only that the police yesterday were demanding to see the ID of a rider (and a rather calm headed soul at that) they were booking for going at more than 30km/h on his bicycle

Edited by Alex Simmons

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Interesting document MM, thanks

 


This is so stupid and pointless it is not funny, unless of course there is a different motivation for requiring cyclists to carry an image or photo id. Like maybe to send a message?

 

The different motivation is how I've always interpreted it, compared to the way others have done so. Aside from the ID in the event of emergency. I've always had the thought that the ID was there in a sense to help diffuse the argument of not being accountable &/or rego rubbish arguments made by some car drivers.

Edited by TrevS

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You guys n gals still battin on about this. Respects.

 

have any of you made an appointment to go see gay or your local mp and actually tried to solve your dilemma/ contribute to the solution/ get change.

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To remain within the speed limit in the park, you will have to ride your brakes for many sections. Given the nature of the road - one way, wide, smooth, with dedicated bike lane, and good awareness of cyclists in there - the limit is unnecessarily slow IMO. Even school zones operate with 40km/h limits and have far more dangerous conditions.

Clearly I'm not very good as I can easily ride the whole park under 30km/h and if I need to dab the brakes on that one false flat downhill section even I can do that. It's hardly a difficult task for an accomplished cyclist. Even if you go off the main road circuit to ride the hill at one of the entrances, It's not hard to put on the brakes.

 

"have to ride the brakes" Alex your far smarter than this. It's one of the lamest arguments against a speed limit.

 

School zones pose a different set of issues. They are not the same as a park.

 

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying what the limit should be. It's been 30 for how many years (?), everybody knows it and it's well sign posted. It's also been policed in the past and will be done so again in the future, just like any other road.

I've read articles from the Park Trust regarding speeding cyclists & bunch size restrictions, alos other times when there has been speed limits enforced. I've been there when there has been a radar speed sign up and police in attendance.

It's nothing new.

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The stop sign i get.

 

But make the limit 45k and then book the shit outta everyone.

 

Its more realistic.

 

Imagine if beach road was limited to 30k. Fark we would protest in massive numbers.

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Well well well looks like the ID requirement has been dropped from the legislation amendment at the last minute?

 

http://legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/sr/2016-107.pdf

So looks like NSW is being brought into line with all the other states now. 1m rule and equal fines for bikes and cars, and no need for ID.

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The stop sign i get.

 

But make the limit 45k and then book the shit outta everyone.

 

Its more realistic.

 

Imagine if beach road was limited to 30k. Fark we would protest in massive numbers.

6e57b3ebe84ee5fc88648c289ab3e0df.jpg

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You guys n gals still battin on about this. Respects.

 

have any of you made an appointment to go see gay or your local mp and actually tried to solve your dilemma/ contribute to the solution/ get change.

 

Gay is refusing to respond to any requests, as is the Premier. Local member won't even respond to contact. On an open Q&A forum with Transport NSW yesterday, the stooge in charge basically refused to answer any question of substance.

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Well well well looks like the ID requirement has been dropped from the legislation amendment at the last minute?

ÃÂ

http://legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/sr/2016-107.pdf

Should we be sure that there is not another legislation amendment though, regarding the rider?

This amendment seems to only relate to the responsibilities of a vehicle driver and not the rider.

Edited by Nath.

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I have it on good authority that carrying a photo of photo ID is good enough, you may want to get a photo of this letter to save with it... just in case. Also it appears no cyclist will ever be pulled over for an ID check, random or otherwise unless they are committing an offense. Again you may have to produce a copy of this signed letter from the Minister to assure the Police officer understands they are making a mistake.

Â

Would a police officer really write a ticket out with details from a digital image of a Drivers License from someones phone without checking it's authenticity? Because someone could Photoshop an image of their Drivers license and swap the name and address with that of... Duncan Gay for example. That would be embarrassing. So if the Police are going to verify ID's anyway, what's the point?

Â

This is so stupid and pointless it is not funny, unless of course there is a different motivation for requiring cyclists to carry an image or photo id. Like maybe to send a message? I am also unsure how Emergency services will be able to view the photo on my phone if it is locked. I will be sure to request clarification on these points when I reply to Mr Gay.

Â

Â

EVK2wLX.png

I note that in paragraph 6 it states ID shall be required from March 2017.

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Well well well looks like the ID requirement has been dropped from the legislation amendment at the last minute?

 

http://legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/sr/2016-107.pdf

Onya Rog. I tried to search Hansard today to no avail.

The ID might be hiding in the long list of rule modifications, but I'll need time to check against the act.

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You guys n gals still battin on about this. Respects.

 

have any of you made an appointment to go see gay or your local mp and actually tried to solve your dilemma/ contribute to the solution/ get change.

You mean besides me? That is a letter from Mr Gay in reply to mine posted above...

 

I also spoke to my local MP last week in person. Here she is presenting some of my points in Parliament(it is a FB link).

 

There was a petition of over 10,000 signatures taken to Parliament house two weeks ago, the Minister refused to accept it even though the media was there.

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I saw mention today that the ID rule is being delayed 12 months. Looks like they don't want that fight, so you may be winning that battle.

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You mean besides me? That is a letter from Mr Gay in reply to mine posted above...

 

I also spoke to my local MP last week in person. Here she is presenting some of my points in Parliament(it is a FB link).

 

There was a petition of over 10,000 signatures taken to Parliament house two weeks ago, the Minister refused to accept it even though the media was there.

Well done, good to see you following your convictions with action.

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To remain within the speed limit in the park, you will have to ride your brakes for many sections. Given the nature of the road - one way, wide, smooth, with dedicated bike lane, and good awareness of cyclists in there - the limit is unnecessarily slow IMO. Even school zones operate with 40km/h limits and have far more dangerous conditions.

 

It's a recreational park, 30kph is plenty. It's not meant for race training and team time trials. There's plenty of bike racing tracks around if you want to smash it up.

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I note that in paragraph 6 it states ID shall be required from March 2017.

 

My understanding is the law is current from March 2016 but they won't issue fines until March 2017.

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It's a recreational park, 30kph is plenty. It's not meant for race training and team time trials. There's plenty of bike racing tracks around if you want to smash it up.

 

Such as?

 

Please don't say Heffron. It's quite a dangerous place to train when not booked and closed for races.

 

30km/h is over the top slow for the park at times though. Many roads have variable limits that account for time of day / traffic usage patterns.

 

I do however agree that large groups in the park are silly and don't help. It's poor form when clubs/groups do that.

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Such as?

 

I have two crits tracks and velodrome with 3km of my house and I'm sure there's plenty more spread across Sydney. I'm sure if you'd like to train hard it wouldn't be that big an inconvenience to travel to get to one rather than simply break the law in a park close to home and then complain when the police enforce the law. I'm assuming these racers are happy to travel to these tracks to race so why not to train?

Edited by trinube

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I have two crits tracks and velodrome with 3km of my house and I'm sure there's plenty more spread across Sydney. I'm sure if you'd like to train hard it wouldn't be that big an inconvenience to travel to get to one rather than simply break the law in a park close to home and then complain when the police enforce the law. I'm assuming these racers are happy to travel to these tracks to race so why not to train?

 

Yeah, every weekday morning as peak hour approaches let's all drive our cars across town to ride a bike. Makes sense. Travelling to a race on the weekend is not really the same thing because those are closed and/or well controlled venues with traffic management plans in place.

 

If you have a track nearby that is safe and suitable for your training, that's great! But most don't. Triathletes doing their TT training and intervals on Waratah Park, or Lansdowne? Hmmm :)

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Yeah, every weekday morning as peak hour approaches let's all drive our cars across town to ride a bike. Makes sense. Travelling to a race on the weekend is not really the same thing because those are closed and/or well controlled venues with traffic management plans in place.

 

So this really has nothing to do with anything other than your convenience. I'm guessing these riders chose to live wherever they do so maybe they should have taken training into account. Whinging about it is like people who move to Mascot and complain about the aircraft noise.

 

Like the helmet laws, the speed limit in CP is set. People either obey it or get fined - it's their choice - but whining that the speed limit of 30kph in a recreational park isn't high enough wreaks of an 'I'm entitled' attitude. Time to enter reality where the world doesn't revolve around cyclists.

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This may have been covered already, but are cyclist required to use a bike computer, how are they supposed to know they are speeding exactly?

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So this really has nothing to do with anything other than your convenience. I'm guessing these riders chose to live wherever they do so maybe they should have taken training into account. Whinging about it is like people who move to Mascot and complain about the aircraft noise.

 

Like the helmet laws, the speed limit in CP is set. People either obey it or get fined - it's their choice - but whining that the speed limit of 30kph in a recreational park isn't high enough wreaks of an 'I'm entitled' attitude. Time to enter reality where the world doesn't revolve around cyclists.

 

Which is partly why I'm leaving Sydney. The riding has become so crap.

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This may have been covered already, but are cyclist required to use a bike computer, how are they supposed to know they are speeding exactly?

No computer required. Just don't speed. It's the same with a boat. You don't have a speedo in that (at least the boats I can afford) but you have to obey the speed limit.

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Coming into the city today it was ridiculous. Heading in on the main road, at 7:00am, and there they are, with their bright fancy expensive commutes. Two abreast taking up both lanes, travelling at 15km/h along the main road. I can understand why motorists get angry every morning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When are they going to get these bloody cars off the main roads so people can get into the city without being unnecessarily held up?

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Coming into the city today it was ridiculous. Heading in on the main road, at 7:00am, and there they are, with their bright fancy expensive commutes. Two abreast taking up both lanes, travelling at 15km/h along the main road. I can understand why motorists get angry every morning.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When are they going to get these bloody cars off the main roads so people can get into the city without being unnecessarily held up?

 

This is what would happen everywhere if bike regos were bought in.

 

On Sat i was riding along a road for about 2k and it's not the best with traffic. I'd tell you now I thought about riding 2 abreast and just holding up cars. But then that's a dick move.

 

But if there was cycling rego's, Id do it for sure.

 

here take my $150 a year so I can ride a bike on the roads. Now I'll take up roads.

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Always worth remembering that roads were paved at the insitence of cyclists (apologies no reference at hand will revert). Motorists have ridden the coat tails of the cyclists and now claim that it's all for them. There is a part of me that would welcome rego for the reason Peter mentions. We pay now, so shut-up and put-up.

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This is what would happen everywhere if bike regos were bought in.

 

On Sat i was riding along a road for about 2k and it's not the best with traffic. I'd tell you now I thought about riding 2 abreast and just holding up cars. But then that's a dick move.

 

But if there was cycling rego's, Id do it for sure.

 

here take my $150 a year so I can ride a bike on the roads. Now I'll take up roads.

Read my post a bit closer Peter. Especially the last line.

 

Maybe I should have used a few emoticons.

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Coming into the city today it was ridiculous. Heading in on the main road, at 7:00am, and there they are, with their bright fancy expensive commutes. Two abreast taking up both lanes, travelling at 15km/h along the main road. I can understand why motorists get angry every morning.

 

When are they going to get these bloody cars off the main roads so people can get into the city without being unnecessarily held up?

 

In my car the other day on a trip between the city and my house mid-afternoon, I averaged 11km/h and was holding up cyclists. Mostly on Bridge Rd Glebe where that poor sod was run off the road by a compete f'wit driver on Thursday morning.

 

Cities are meant to be for humans, not cars. This place (Sydney) has lost the plot.

 

If riders who take the lane and ride together for safety have no other sensible viable alternative safe place to ride than to do just that, then what do we expect? Would it be a better place if all riders got in cars as well?

 

This is a government that's spends over $10billion on roads this year, has contracted for the most expensive road project on the planet, all while ripping up the most used cycleway in the country. Go figure.

 

The sense of entitlement is definitely with the motor vehicle. The balance is all wrong.

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Photo licence not required until 2017. per the paper on the weekend.

 

I'd almost guess this won't happen now.

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Photo licence not required until 2017. per the paper on the weekend.

 

No, that's not correct. As I mentioned a few posts back (or on the other thread), from 2016 you must carry ID but you won't be fined until 2017.

 

From the NSW gov site:

 

Bicycle riders over 18 must carry photo ID

From 1 March 2016, all bicycle riders aged 18 and over must carry the required photo identification. This will help riders be identified in an emergency. NSW Police will also be able to ask for identification if they believe a bicycle rider has broken the road rules.

Bicycle riders will have 12 months to adjust to the new law. From 1 March 2017, riders stopped by police for breaking the road rules could face a $106 fine if they do not have the required photo ID.

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