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Cardinal Pell

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None of any of this goes away until religion itself is outlawed.

Inshallah

Edited by Andrew #1

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Tim Minchin has demonstrated all that is wrong with the media, social media and the world in general.

 

News is no longer news. Its a collection of peoples opinions based on what they "hear" from the mainstream media (which has its own particular bias). I doubt whether too many people have read the entire transcript and so many have based their opinions from selected extracts (possibly taken out of context) thrown out by the mainstream media to feed their own cravings for "audience".

 

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Tim Minchin has demonstrated all that is wrong with the media, social media and the world in general.

 

News is no longer news. Its a collection of peoples opinions based on what they "hear" from the mainstream media (which has its own particular bias). I doubt whether too many people have read the entire transcript and so many have based their opinions from selected extracts (possibly taken out of context) thrown out by the mainstream media to feed their own cravings for "audience".

 

I think tim minchin has demonstrated, once again, how topsy turvy the world is.

 

Think about it, we now have musicians/comedians with more morals and empathy than senior clergy.

 

That same senior clergy spend a lifetime TALKING about doing good in the world, and then put most of their energy into treating people kike shit (be they gay people that would like to get married, or children raped by their peers, or whatever).

 

If the church gave half as much effort to helping abuse victims as it did to moving priests around, buying off accusers, shifting assets to prevent being sued, failing to report abuse to authorities, and moving people overseas they woildnt be in this mess.

 

And if Pell truly gave a shit about these people, hewould make every effort to get back to Australia for no otherreason than its the rightthing to do. Might i remind you he w as OK to fly to the UK last year to go to the cricket! But priorities, huh?!

 

Might i also emind you that JUST LAST WEEK thecatholic church released new guidelines stating that priests/clergy did nkt necessarily have to report abuse to the authorities. ....

 

May i ask, what sort of institution would make such a decision, especially given the now known events of the recent past?

 

No institution that i could have respect for...

 

Can you even imagine a school, or major business adopting a pllicy that if therape of a child becomes known we dont necessarily have to get the cops involved? Disgraceful

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What else would you expect from an organisation that asks it members to dig deep to help the poor, while they hoard away untold billions in wealth

 

Bankers' best guesses about the Vatican's wealth put it at $10 billion to $15 billion. Of this wealth, Italian stockholdings alone run to $1.6 billion, 15% of the value of listed shares on the Italian market. The Vatican has big investments in banking, insurance, chemicals, steel, construction, real estate.

 

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That's the best guess? I can't possibly believe the Vatican is worth that little. I wouldn't even be able to imagine all the stuff they've got squirreled away within those walls!

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I think tim minchin has demonstrated, once again, how topsy turvy the world is.

 

Think about it, we now have musicians/comedians with more morals and empathy than senior clergy.

 

I'm not sure that there is anything new about that.

 

Back in the 1600's there was this guy called Shakespeare, while the Catholic church was still full-on in its repressive authority and elitism in the senior clergy.

 

Musicians/Poets/Comedians/etc have always had more morals and empathy than the senior Catholic clergy.

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That's the best guess? I can't possibly believe the Vatican is worth that little. I wouldn't even be able to imagine all the stuff they've got squirreled away within those walls!

 

Of course, they did have that business with Banco Ambrosiano that cost them a bit...

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Musicians/Poets/Comedians/etc have always had more morals and empathy than the senior Catholic clergy.

 

Yeah Right. Drugs, alcohol, sex with endless lines of groupies, and trashing rooms (just to name a few). All the good things that the youth of today should be aspiring to adhere to.

 

I wonder if we (and the media) would be debating this topic with as much vigour if the subject was a senior sports administrator or coach instead of a senior catholic clergy member?

Not that it would ever happen because we all know that this sort of stuff doesn't happen in sport.

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I wonder if we (and the media) would be debating this topic with as much vigour if the subject was a senior sports administrator or coach instead of a senior catholic clergy member?

 

NO probably not, but then again sports administrators dont go preaching about what is right and wrong.

 

Just like police get held to a higher standard and are under more of a spotlight when they break the law as they are entrusted to uphold the law.

 

Not only are these infractions breaking the law, but also seen as a misuse of their office and violating the trust that we put in them (or they demand)

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All I can say is that I am glad that Tim has done what he has....to bring it to the forefront and have people realize a little more of what may have been done, all I can do is wait my turn to give evidence to the royal commission, in WA alone there is a 12 month wait.

 

I can't wait to have my day in court, to tell my story and try and change things for my son, and other peoples children so they never have to go through what I have gone through.

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I wonder if we (and the media) would be debating this topic with as much vigour if the subject was a senior sports administrator or coach instead of a senior catholic clergy member?

 

Two words for you - Brett Sutton

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NO probably not, but then again sports administrators dont go preaching about what is right and wrong.

 

Don't know about you but as a coach I've often received a list of Do's and Don'ts including (if memory serves me correct) a 30 minute lecture during the TA coaches course on the appropriate way to touch women and children when instructing.

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All I can say is that I am glad that Tim has done what he has....to bring it to the forefront and have people realize a little more of what may have been done, all I can do is wait my turn to give evidence to the royal commission, in WA alone there is a 12 month wait.

 

I can't wait to have my day in court, to tell my story and try and change things for my son, and other peoples children so they never have to go through what I have gone through.

 

Good luck mate.

 

I dont for one minute think these perpetrators are sorry for what they have done, only that they are sorry they have been caught, nor do I think they grasp (or care) about the long term effects of their actions.

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Don't know about you but as a coach I've often received a list of Do's and Don'ts including (if memory serves me correct) a 30 minute lecture during the TA coaches course on the appropriate way to touch women and children when instructing.

 

Sure and thats great, but coaches are not the ones standing up on a Sunday morning telling all and sundry about what is right and wrong and what "God" thinks, then doing these heinous crimes.

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Two words for you - Brett Sutton

Perfect example. Certainly didn't get the media attention that George Pell is currently receiving and outside of triathlon circles is probably unknown.

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Perfect example. Certainly didn't get the media attention that George Pell is currently receiving and outside of triathlon circles is probably unknown.

 

Oh please. The media don't give a rat's about triathlon so it was never going to hit main stream media but it was absolutely hammered here and on twits.

The difference is that triathlon is practised by an infinitesimally small niche and the Catholic church likes to think it speaks for half the earth's population. Within their circles, they both got huge coverage - and deservedly so.

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Oh please. The media don't give a rat's about triathlon so it was never going to hit main stream media but it was absolutely hammered here and on twits.

The difference is that triathlon is practised by an infinitesimally small niche and the Catholic church likes to think it speaks for half the earth's population. Within their circles, they both got huge coverage - and deservedly so.

Sutton was a swim coach at the time. Certainly not as high profile as the football codes, but just about as high a profile as any other sport gets in Australia. To think the judge suspended the sentence because they didn't want to cost Aus any medals at the coming Olympics. I'll bet that made the families affected feel good.

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Sure and thats great, but coaches are not the ones standing up on a Sunday morning telling all and sundry about what is right and wrong and what "God" thinks, then doing these heinous crimes.

Hypocrites are no necessarily restricted to the pulpit on a sunday but not all get the same media/social media attention. A policeman/pollie caught speeding or over the limit will rarely receive more than a cursory comment. Not to mention at least one member of the Judicial bench who deserves an honourable mention in this list

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Sutton was a swim coach at the time. Certainly not as high profile as the football codes, but just about as high a profile as any other sport gets in Australia.

 

 

Not really, swimming, like cycling, only gets exposure when there's an Olympics looming.The rest of the time it barely rates a mention in any media - probably ranks with Union or Basketball. I'd suggest surfing gets a lot more attention than swimming.

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Oh please. The media don't give a rat's about triathlon so it was never going to hit main stream media but it was absolutely hammered here and on twits.

The difference is that triathlon is practised by an infinitesimally small niche and the Catholic church likes to think it speaks for half the earth's population. Within their circles, they both got huge coverage - and deservedly so.

I think the huge coverage is entirely proportional to the scale of the crime. In the Hunter Valley alone there are 400 confirmed cases of abuse.

 

Across the country the cases would run into the thousands.

 

If you can point to any other single organisation with this sort of abuse, on this sort of scale i would suggest it would be front page news for months on end!

 

Imagine if this was something hidden away by Apple executives, for example.

 

The truth is that the media haven't even reported half what they should have, and we have significant media identities who not only FAIL top report this stuff but actively SUPPORT THE CHURCH (Bolt and Price this week used their extensive networks and huge reach to protect Pell)

 

Its rediculous to try and deflect the blame for this by saying its a media beat up. .... if the Catholic church didn't want this sort of attention they could simply have not been ****ing little boys for the past 5 decades. ..

 

 

Quite frankly I'm disgusted that anyone could try and deflect any blame whatsoever by making any type of excuse about too much media attention or too much focus. What sort of people try to excuse the raping of children by saying 'its all the fault of the media'?? And 'they are under too much media attention'?

 

This is obviously the sort of deluded thoughts Pell has as well - who cares if hundreds of kids got raped, its all the fault of the media.

Edited by TryTriB4Forty
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Hypocrites are no necessarily restricted to the pulpit on a sunday but not all get the same media/social media attention. Â A policeman/pollie caught speeding or over the limit will rarely receive more than a cursory comment. Â Not to mention at least one member of the Judicial bench who deserves an honourable mention in this list

You trying to equate speeding or drink driving (as bad as they are) with the systematic rape (and cover up) of thousands of kids ....

 

Righhhhhttttt.....

 

When a heap of police rape hundreds of kids and cover it up, im pretty sure it will be on all the news reports....

Edited by TryTriB4Forty

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I think the huge coverage is entirely proportional to the scale of the crime. In the Hunter Valley alone there are 400 confirmed cases of abuse.

 

Couldn't agree more - this deserves to be on the front page of every paper around the world. For all we know Australia might be the tip of the iceberg.

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What else would you expect from an organisation that asks it members to dig deep to help the poor, while they hoard away untold billions in wealth

 

 

 

That's the best guess? I can't possibly believe the Vatican is worth that little. I wouldn't even be able to imagine all the stuff they've got squirreled away within those walls!

 

I'd be tipping it's much much more than any of us think.

 

Yep, poor starving people everywhere and they have the power to help. But do they? nup.

 

People like Bill Gates do much much more and I don;t think he is even religious

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You trying to equate speeding or drink driving (as bad as they are) with the systematic rape (and cover up) of thousands of kids ....

 

Righhhhhttttt.....

 

When a heap of police rape hundreds of kids and cover it up, im pretty sure it will be on all the news reports....

 

No you equated speeding or drink driving with the systematic rape (and cover up) of thousands of kids...

 

I'm trying to equate people in authority being hypocrites. Completely different line of thinking. But thank you for your misinterpretation.

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Just an aside, The Catholics or CoE don't have a monopoly on this. In the north of the UK ( Rochdale, Rotherham) there has been a huge issue with organised pedo gangs of Muslim men carrying repeated raping of children of a long period of time. The local mosques knew of this and actively obstructed Police in their investigation. It's still happening in some areas.

 

I don't care what flavour of book you subscribe to but men ( and women) that do this and then hide behind the sanctimonious protection of their religion have not earned the air they breathe.

 

Sadly, the children that need protecting the most are ones we only know about once they become victims. They are the ones that need 12ft high and 6ft thick defences, not the perpetrators.

Its PC to give Pell a right kicking. (But fair play. Difficult to have any faith in institutions when this sort of thing goes on.)

 

Its also PC to be silent about others engaged in serious child abuse.

 

And with Rochdale the authorities were doing their bit as well according to Wikipedia and numerous other reports:

 

"In March 2015, Greater Manchester Police apologised for its failure to investigate the child sexual exploitation allegations more thoroughly between 2008 and 2010."

 

'Community relations' dictated one turn a blind eye.

 

Difficult to have faith in institutions...

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BOTP, mate, you are playing a strawman, and in doing so, present yourself as a defendent of the undefendable!

 

There is no 'PC' at play here. Pell is getting rightful indignation from all and sundry because his approach to the whole subject of his employees, friends and co-habitants abusing children is beyond the pale!

 

I have not once heard anyone "be silent" for PC reasons on others who are also engaged in such dispacable acts! Reference something and I will read. Admitted guilt of failing in an investigation does not equate to 'being PC'. There is a marked difference between not investigating more thoroughly, and not reporting, covering-up, supporting the continued abuse, and doing everything within the power of a multi-billion dollar state-funded, billion-of-followers, influence-over-the-state cult in covering up the rape...the RAPE of children.

 

Sometimes, SOMETIMES, I want to be Judge DREDD!

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Well said Ten Pints. The term "abuse of children" seems to do the victims no favours and if it was put upt there as the RAPE that it really is I reckon there would be a bigger public outrage. If a woman gets raped, what does the bloke get?, a few years. A priest rapes 20-30 kids, gets the same

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BOTP, mate, you are playing a strawman, and in doing so, present yourself as a defendent of the undefendable!

ÃÂ

There is no 'PC' at play here. Pell is getting rightful indignation from all and sundry because his approach to the whole subject of his employees, friends and co-habitants abusing children is beyond the pale!

ÃÂ

I have not once heard anyone "be silent" for PC reasons on others who are also engaged in such dispacable acts! Reference something and I will read. Admitted guilt of failing in an investigation does not equate to 'being PC'. There is a marked difference between not investigating more thoroughly, and not reporting, covering-up, supporting the continued abuse, and doing everything within the power of a multi-billion dollar state-funded, billion-of-followers, influence-over-the-state cult in covering up the rape...the RAPE of children.

ÃÂ

Sometimes, SOMETIMES, I want to be Judge DREDD!

Well. Removing indigenous kids from abusive homes is written up by some as creating another stolen generation.

 

And the rochdale thing is the absolute personification of pc.

Edited by Formerly known as BOTP II

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I actually know someone who had a go at Minchin because he was too soft and didn't have the balls to go at it hard like it deserved. Didn't seem to matter to him that the song needed to be something that could be broadcast during prime time on tv and radio, to gather support and raise funds from the everyday general public. I think many, in particular some of the catholic community that do support this, would be turned away by some of his other material. But there may be some here who haven't heard his original opinions on this issue, so thought I'd include it here.

 

This is very very nsfw, and make sure your kids aren't around!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTIorwtJbhE

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Sutton was a swim coach at the time. Certainly not as high profile as the football codes, but just about as high a profile as any other sport gets in Australia. To think the judge suspended the sentence because they didn't want to cost Aus any medals at the coming Olympics. I'll bet that made the families affected feel good.

It didn't come out until he was TA's high performance coach. It was big at the time - commensurate with triathlons status as a fledgling fringe Olympic sport. Scot Volkers was a hugh story & got a massive run at the Royal Commission 18 months ago.

 

But we are forgetting something. There are and always will be child abusers involved in sports and other activities. The Catholic Church is something else again. Not only is there a seemingly higher proportion of paedophiles amongst the priests and - especially - the Brothers but the church institutionally covers up and protects these perpetrators on an industrial scale. Pell was at the heart of that. As one of the top half dozen Catholics in the world & the dominant catholic figure in Australua this was always going to be a massive story. Rightly so!

 

Not only that but it is going to get bigger. Francis is protecting Pell. This is not going to end well ...

Edited by Andrew #1
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I posted this on FB, but I reckon a call for Father Bob Maquire for Cardinel!! He retweeted Minchin's song, and face it, if the Church has issues with him then he must be doing something right!

 

Actually, the good Father Bob does isn't because he's a priest. It's because he's a great human being. I think it's just a coincidence he's a priest.

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I posted this on FB, but I reckon a call for Father Bob Maquire for Cardinel!! Â He retweeted Minchin's song, and face it, if the Church has issues with him then he must be doing something right!

Â

Actually, the good Father Bob does isn't because he's a priest. Â It's because he's a great human being. Â I think it's just a coincidence he's a priest.

We said.

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So he gets a medical not to come home.

Australia has no extradition treaty with the Vatican

Victoria Police get the poops as they can't arrest when he returns or extradite, so they leak their year long investigation to the media.

Nah, just coincidental, couldn't be true.

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Wouldn't expect anything less from you BOTP. Let's make the (proven) systematic raping of children by the Catholic Church a political issue.

 

My prediction is your next post is going to quote another one of your right wing nut blogs defending the indefensible, or alternatively you try and change the subject by saying something about Bill Shorten in a not funny joke kind of way.

Edited by Rog
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Is there actually anything in the ten commandments about not raping kids?

Nope I just checked. But don't go eyeing off your neighbours ox. That's bad.

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Nope I just checked. But don't go eyeing off your neighbours ox. That's bad.

So as long as they're not your neighbour's kids.

 

This whole thing is ridiculous. Anything other than the church & he'd be crucified by all.

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Wouldn't expect anything less from you BOTP. Let's make the (proven) systematic raping of children by the Catholic Church a political issue.

 

My prediction is your next post is going to quote another one of your right wing nut blogs defending the indefensible, or alternatively you try and change the subject by saying something about Bill Shorten in a not funny joke kind of way.

Mr 'all my colleagues are hopeless' rog. Please read the link and spot the detail that is missing. Something very systemic about this.

 

Like i originally said. Fair play to give catholic church a kicking. But you misrepresent the point. Where is there any denial of abuse by priests? The point is about the demonisation of pell and selective outrage in polite society.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/apr/30/female-genital-mutilation-england-fgm-girls

Edited by Formerly known as BOTP II

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As strange as it may seem to the left wing lynch mob and police abusing their authority christians still have the presumption of innocence. But those priests would say that wouldn't they.

 

"Archbishop of Melbourne Denis Hart said information provided to the media íappeared to have been âdesigned to do maximum damage to Cardinal Pell and undermine the work of the royal commissionâ....

 

Archbishop Hart said yesterday: âThe allegations do not reflect the man I have known for over 50 years.â

 

He said Cardinal Pell was entitled to the presumption of innocence and a fair investigation.

 

Auxiliary Bishop of Melbourne, Most Reverend Terry Curtin, said Cardinal Pell was ârespectedâ and that church leaders were not aware of any evidence suggesting he was responsible for sexual abuseâ¦

 

âI was at the new bishopâs conference in Rome ⦠when I saw him (Cardinal Pell) ... I thought âyouâre not wellâ,â Bishop Curtin said.

 

âHe was drawn, he was pale, he was stooped. What I want, what we want, is his evidence. He does (want to come to Australia) ... but then heâs not well enough to, so I accept that heâs not avoiding (police).â

 

Bishop Curtin was five years below Pell in the seminary and has met and worked with him throughout his career, and Archbishop Hart was in the same year level.

 

âIâm not a mad fan, to be honest. Therefore, if I had anything against him I would say it, but I donât,â Bishop Curtin said.

 

âMy experience would be that he is an honest man, he speaks very directly, and when he says that (he is) not part of (the alleged offences) then I accept that.

 

âIâve never had any reason to doubt his words; heâs íalways been truthful.â

Edited by Formerly known as BOTP II

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BOTP, mate, you are playing a strawman, and in doing so, present yourself as a defendent of the undefendable!

ÃÂ

There is no 'PC' at play here. Pell is getting rightful indignation from all and sundry because his approach to the whole subject of his employees, friends and co-habitants abusing children is beyond the pale!

ÃÂ

I have not once heard anyone "be silent" for PC reasons on others who are also engaged in such dispacable acts! Reference something and I will read. Admitted guilt of failing in an investigation does not equate to 'being PC'. There is a marked difference between not investigating more thoroughly, and not reporting, covering-up, supporting the continued abuse, and doing everything within the power of a multi-billion dollar state-funded, billion-of-followers, influence-over-the-state cult in covering up the rape...the RAPE of children.

ÃÂ

Sometimes, SOMETIMES, I want to be Judge DREDD!

See guardian article above. And honestly tell me what is missing from it ?

 

What is the factual basis for saying he supported continued abuse by the way? If there is such evidence i assume he'll do time ?

Edited by Formerly known as BOTP II

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Exactly what has pell been charged with to date? And are there any findings against him?

I feel like your judgement is clouded so I can't help but wonder if your are Catholic?

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It's a fair point to raise that there seems to be a lack of evidence in many cases. It's also a fair point to observe that the reason for a lack of evidence (outside of the literally thousands of similar accounts) seems to be a systematic cover up by all levels of the Catholic Church. Lack of evidence of abuse should never be confused for evidence of lack of abuse.

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"The very essence of left ideology is an anti-Christian socialism. Pell is the latest focus for this hatred. Our latter-day Voltaires, who think they are écrasezing lâinfâme, are just the handmaidens of a national socialist future across the West".

 

 

I'm not sure who you are quoting there but they need to give themselves an uppercut, whoever it is. As for some leftist dogmatic witch hunt, perhaps they should contact the victims of Jimmy Saville. For years Saville's (and those of there celebrities) child abuse was systematically covered up by the BBC and the victims absolutely vilified and bullied in into being quiet. As an institution, it doesn't get any more left wing luvvie PC than the BBC.

 

For me, it's not a left vs right issue at all. There is however (or should be) a special place in Hell for those that think their 'religion' somehow absolves them of any wrong doing, either directly by raping children or complicitly by covering it up.

 

I'm not sure how anyone would even begin to make this a political thing.

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I now see everything fnbotp2 has posted in the politics thread in a new light...... actually no. He's just helped solidify my disagreement with everything he said in that thread too ;).

 

I still love ya mate, even if we don't see eye to eye on everything. If we all agreed on everything life would be boring.

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