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goughy

Cardinal Pell

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13 minutes ago, goughy said:

Stick that up your arse god and church!

I think thats how this whole mess started!! 

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8 hours ago, Peter said:

You know what I don't get is that people keep sending their kids to Catholic schools and giving the church money so their kids can keep going to them.  Not to mention they also tell everyone their Catholic.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen at other schools, but knowing what people actually know about the cover-ups and what has happened re convictions, how could anyone still send their kids and hand money over to a corrupt (ethics wise) institution these days?

 

This is something we explored in talking with some of the victims. Some of them have fallen out with family members who don't believe that the Church could do anything so orchestrated and evil. Some still continue to attend looking for some form of salvation. Some find another religion. Some (too many) have looked for salvation in the bottle / drugs or taken their own lives. None are the same afterwards.

People want to believe in something - we, as humans, are drawn to look for something else when we are suffering. I think it's a curiosity of trying to improve your own situation or looking for an escape. 

I grew up in a very strong Catholic town. The Catholic schools, single-sex when I was there, had armies of kids they could send to play us at sport and it wasn't really fair .... we had 350 boys to draw from and they had 1100! Some of the 9ths rowing crews had beards! The schools and the Churches are very protective of keeping their parishioners sweet - there is too much of an industry at stake. Hence, they feed the beast that then feeds them. Weirdly, there were people attaching ribbons to the fence of the Cathedral, then walking inside for a service. 

I gave up on all forms of religion after being involved in this. I choose to believe in myself and my own values, not a mythical fairy story with pixies and elves and stuff that never happened.

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Not necessarily about Pell, but damn good to see something was done about this.  50 years ago, when the church still has significant power and was above reproach, regardless of what people "knew"....

It's something, though really too late for him.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-07/denis-ryan-victorian-detective-police-pension-booted-force/9645982

Edited by goughy

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On 3/5/2018 at 9:55 AM, Peter said:

You know what I don't get is that people keep sending their kids to Catholic schools and giving the church money so their kids can keep going to them.  Not to mention they also tell everyone their Catholic.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen at other schools, but knowing what people actually know about the cover-ups and what has happened re convictions, how could anyone still send their kids and hand money over to a corrupt (ethics wise) institution these days?

 

Because most catholics ignore strict adherence to Church law (whcih I feel is out of touch with modern society) like divorce, contraception, sex outside marriage, same sex marriage etc. Most wouldn't know who is in any position outside their own Parish except the Pope and only hear what is in the media. Most would think their children will recieve a better education, pastoral care, better facilities or school culture than the local government high school. Most would also send their kids to school with 100% lay teachers. Most would also (rightly or wrongly) think that the institutional abuse was historical and a thing of the past. Most are Catholics of convenience, get their kids baptised so they qualify for enrolment in local Catholic school 5 years later. Most of these so called evangelical catholics Peter mentions would never attend Mass and certainly never tell anyone they are Catholic, the vast majority (including relatively devout) would be ashamed of the scandals involving people like Pell and some would have drifted away from the church because of this.

 

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Locally, we have a couple of cases of abuse within Catholic private schools that don't fit the descriptor "historical".  Though of course, not involving priests.

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21 hours ago, Parkside said:

Because most catholics ignore strict adherence to Church law (whcih I feel is out of touch with modern society) like divorce, contraception, sex outside marriage, same sex marriage etc. Most wouldn't know who is in any position outside their own Parish except the Pope and only hear what is in the media. Most would think their children will recieve a better education, pastoral care, better facilities or school culture than the local government high school. Most would also send their kids to school with 100% lay teachers. Most would also (rightly or wrongly) think that the institutional abuse was historical and a thing of the past. Most are Catholics of convenience, get their kids baptised so they qualify for enrolment in local Catholic school 5 years later. Most of these so called evangelical catholics Peter mentions would never attend Mass and certainly never tell anyone they are Catholic, the vast majority (including relatively devout) would be ashamed of the scandals involving people like Pell and some would have drifted away from the church because of this.

 

It's also the free and easy absolution that doesn't deal with the problem ... a couple of HMs and you're on your way. It fails to deal with the underlying problem....

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I wonder how many "Hail mary's" Pell will have to do to make this all go away?

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8 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

I wonder how many "Hail mary's" Pell will have to do to make this all go away?

I think it might be out of his direct control. 

Looking through the article on Denis Ryan, that is how some communities dealt with matters up until the 1990s. There was still a very Catholic force in the Ballarat Police and it became more entrenched the further you went to the SA border. Portland and Warrnambool were almost exclusively Catholic Police forces and they had a 2-stage approach to "right-footers"...

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One Archbishop down. Hopefully the authorities won't be scared of taking down high ranking church officials now. Here or elsewhere in the world.

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You may not be aware but the famous journalist  Walter "Robby" Robinson is in Sydney and Melbourne to headline a series of media.

He is the man accredited with most of the work of famous work by the Spot Light team from the Boston Globe regarding the catholic church, abuse and cover ups in Boston.  I hadn't seen the academy award wining film "Spotlight" but it is on Netflix so I watched it last night.  A real eye opener and it has changed my view on proceedings against cardinal pell, seeing him more like his Boston counterpart Cardinal Law (who was forced to resign from his Boston position but not the church and went to the Vatican).

There is an incredible exchange with a psychiatrist that goes like this:

We think we have 13 priests in Boston, that fits this pattern, which would be a very, very big story.
Does that sound right to you? In terms of scale?
No, not really, Robby. Sounds low to me.
My estimate suggests 6% act out sexually with minors.
6%, of what?
6% of all priests.
How many priest do we have in Boston?
About 1.500, 1% is 15, 6% is... 90?
- Right, 90 priests.
- Is that possible?
From a metric standpoint. Yes. That would certainly be amount of my findings.
Hello? 90 ****ing priests? In Boston?
That's what he said.
If there were 90 of these bastards, people would know.
- Maybe they do.
- And no one said a thing?

They went on to find the actual number, 87.

Edited by Pete
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I saw him on either The Project or News Breakfast the other day, I thought he said it was up to the 200's now?  Something like 15% now.  He said something like the investigation team went from the initial 3 to about 11. 

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On 23/05/2018 at 11:14 AM, Ex-Hasbeen said:

One Archbishop down. Hopefully the authorities won't be scared of taking down high ranking church officials now. Here or elsewhere in the world.

This one was close to home. I'm glad they got him.

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Hmmmm, too sick to go to jail, suffering alzheimers, depression, anxiety, too frail, may get assaulted - but not too sick to hold the position of archbishop which he still technically hasn't resigned from!!

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3 hours ago, goughy said:

Hmmmm, too sick to go to jail, suffering alzheimers, depression, anxiety, too frail, may get assaulted - but not too sick to hold the position of archbishop which he still technically hasn't resigned from!!

We had Ronald Mulkearns in Ballarat for over a quarter of a century and as soon as the $hit hit the fan for him and he was implicated in the cover-up, they pensioned him off to a friendly retirement home in Apollo Bay where he saw out his years. 

I bet the old CC will be pulling the same stunt with Pell if / when he gets tried! 

The Catholic Church ... a business too big to fail!

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