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goughy

Cardinal Pell

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Rimmer    354

My great uncle was a priest (died), Cardinal Gilroy (years ago) was a relative. My Aunty is a nun (83). There are some spectacular Catholics in the world that do great deeds and give their life for others. My mother and her 2 sisters (not including the nun) devote/devoted their life to helping other people sometimes at the expense of their own life.

 

Most of the philosophy is not too dissimilar to what most of us want - to look after each other with dignity and respect. Unfortunately the minority of ratbags far outweigh the great work the majority do. That being said, those ratbags need to be accountable for their actions.

 

FM

 

Agree with this - "religion" is a fairly universal concept that those with the faculty to accept and respect will follow, without being forced into it. There are widely respected Catholics, Anglicans, Muslims, Jews etc etc who have all done good work, and will probably continue to do so.

 

For me, the issue becomes real when people are subjected to things they may not believe in because of some "higher being". That, is coercion. And, depending on the severity of the event, needs recourse.

 

The other point that hasn't come out is the abuse by the nuns in the orphanages / care homes / girls homes. My view is that this is being buried because, as vile as it is to think that these deeds can be perpetrated by men, it is seemingly unthinkable that they would be committed by women. We had evidence of this when working on the Ridsdale civil action, but couldn't locate any of the victims as they had moved away, changed names, gone to ground or committed suicide.

 

This is going to hit the fan when it comes out!

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Rog    1,552

There's been a few articles about the nuns, one quoted by roxii a few posts back. The main "issue" with the nuns not being mentioned is because I think all of them are now dead.

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Turts    1,966

Its so much bigger than Ballarat. Its worldwide. But the media is so focussed

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TryTriB4Forty    640

Just read in the paper that the child abuse commission has heard from approx. 5200 individuals who were abused.

 

There is another 1600 or so on the waiting list to give evidence.

 

They are holding 37 closed sessions per day to get through as many victims as possible, but they will have to stop any more applicants from appearing because they are running out of time (Commission due to report in December next year, so need to get onto some other stuff I guess....)

 

So, nearly 7000 individuals will have given evidence, with the true number probably MUCH MUCH higher (how many have died? how many have buried the abuse to the back of their minds? or are too ashamed to come forward? or who have never admitted it to family, let alone to a royal commission ...??)

 

By any measure, that's an unbelievable amount of people to have been abused ....

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goughy    2,147

Their confessor may also require them to perform some penance, say by counselling troubled youth in the community.

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goughy    2,147

So..... do we actually think he may get charged?

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Stikman    1,303

Considering that he's still in Rome do you think there's any chance of him being brought to justice if he is?

 

Putrid f*cking scum, the entire Catholic church.  And if the members of said church won't stand up and send the message to the leaders that they must do something to help bringing these people to account then I include them in that assessment.  There should be empty pews until they stop protecting themselves.

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goughy    2,147

I did just say charged....... I in no way believe the church will send him home. He'll be holed up in the Vatican for the rest of his life no doubt.

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Stikman    1,303

The concerning thing about that is that it would be so easy for the church to throw him to the wolves and would help their public image immensely.  How scared must they be of the dirt he could offer authorities if pushed?

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Peter    1,612
25 minutes ago, goughy said:

I did just say charged....... I in no way believe the church will send him home. He'll be holed up in the Vatican for the rest of his life no doubt.

I'm not a catholic, but I think the current Pope is a good guy and if he Pell was charged, he would send him back to australia.

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Oompa Loompa    664

They wont send the grub back, if he is convicted its coin central, damages, assets..... the Church never puts people before money, the boston grub is case in point.

The grub isnt fit to fly to Australia to face his community but he is fit to fly to London....if he can do that he can fly slowly to Australia old school like, a few hours at a time. 

Its time practising catholics stood up and refused to go to mass until the grub is brought to justice. The hypocrisy is stunning and sad, putting dogma before humanity.

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Rimmer    354
31 minutes ago, Oompa Loompa said:

They wont send the grub back, if he is convicted its coin central, damages, assets..... the Church never puts people before money, the boston grub is case in point.

The grub isnt fit to fly to Australia to face his community but he is fit to fly to London....if he can do that he can fly slowly to Australia old school like, a few hours at a time. 

Its time practising catholics stood up and refused to go to mass until the grub is brought to justice. The hypocrisy is stunning and sad, putting dogma before humanity.

I couldn't agree more - if he can do a flight like that, he could do one to Australia, old-school. He needs a subpoena to appear and damn the consequences.

They won't though. They'll march along like lemmings every week and follow, follow, follow .... really quite sad.

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Andrew #1    838

Bump.

 

Coming home voluntarily, apparently to face the music.

 

Timing of charges probably has a lot to do with the recent HC decision in the Robert Hughes "Hey Dad" case. I suspect that the Vic DPP held off recommending prosecution of Cardinal Pell until the conflict between Victoria and other jurisdictions over the admissibility of 'tendency evidence' in historical child sexual assault cases was resolved.

The Hughes decision is likely to significantly strengthen the prosecution case against Pell, given the the presence of multiple complainants and multiple charges. Now evidence in one count is more likely to be cross admissible in relation to other counts as 'tendency evidence'. Something that was previously severely restricted in Victoria - due to the Victorian Courts 'independent thinking' on the subject until that was explicitly knocked on the head by the High Court in Hughes - cf. [2017] HCA 20 (14 June 2017) per Majority at pars [29 - 65]. ...

Edited by Andrew #1
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Rimmer    354
4 hours ago, Andrew #1 said:

Bump.

 

Coming home voluntarily, apparently to face the music.

 

Timing of charges probably has a lot to do with the recent HC decision in the Robert Hughes "Hey Dad" case. I suspect that the Vic DPP held off recommending prosecution of Cardinal Pell until the conflict between Victoria and other jurisdictions over the admissibility of 'tendency evidence' in historical child sexual assault cases was resolved.

The Hughes decision is likely to significantly strengthen the prosecution case against Pell, given the the presence of multiple complainants and multiple charges. Now evidence in one count is more likely to be cross admissible in relation to other counts as 'tendency evidence'. Something that was previously severely restricted in Victoria - due to the Victorian Courts 'independent thinking' on the subject until that was explicitly knocked on the head by the High Court in Hughes - cf. [2017] HCA 20 (14 June 2017) per Majority at pars [29 - 65]. ...

So, Hey Dad! becomes Hey Father!

Sorry, couldn't resist that one. 

Having worked on the Ridsdale civil case, I know that Pell knew what was going on. At the time Ridsdale was doing what he was doing and after when Pell and the Archdiocese of Ballarat Mafia covered it up. As to whether Pell is guilty or not, I don't know, but time to face the music ....

What goes around, comes around!

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Wronggenes    134

It's good to see he is well enough to travel home voluntarily to defend his name whereas he was at risk of death if he had to come home for the royal commission, and that his employer is so accommodating by giving him leave to do so.

I am happy for him that his health has recovered so well.  Hopefully the health of victims of child abuse committed by members of the church can recover in such a dramatic fashion and their employers can be so accommodating.

Edited by Wronggenes
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goughy    2,147

Our wouldn't surprise me if his volunteering to come back was after the pope had a word in his ear!

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goughy    2,147

I think the pope told him 'you're feeling fine'....

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tortoise    829

I'd like to know how he will fund his legal fees. Chastity, poverty and all that. 

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rory-dognz    244
1 hour ago, tortoise said:

I'd like to know how he will fund his legal fees. Chastity, poverty and all that. 

are you talking the church or those who give to the church?

the church certainly ain't poor

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roxii    4,116

It is a pleasant change to see that the Vatican hasnt gone the whole 9 yards in closing ranks around him and defending him outright. 

Might cut him free to "save the brand" 

 

As for the money Pell "should" have no money personally, and the Sydney Archdiocese have said they will accommodate him while here but will not foot the legal bill.  So it begs the question who will pay, maybe he will go legal aid :lol: 

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