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Cardinal Pell

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I wasn't sure where else to put this. Tim Minchin's new single....

 

 

Just saw it on the project. Steve Price gave Minchin a serve over the strong language he uses, like calling him a coward. Carrie thought it was musically outstanding and catchy!

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I heard Steve Price's comments - something along the lines that Minchin shouldn't use his musical talent to be disrespectful to Pell, and also that he is a Cardinal and therefore deserves some respect.

 

I find this a hard argument to follow. How could you possibly be offended by a SONG, but not offended by a powerful man who was responsible for organisations and 'staff' that turned out to contain serial child rapists and abusers?!

 

Its just absurd to go on national TV to say 'that song is offensive and shows disrespect'.

 

You know what is offensive and disrespectful? Raping kids, protecting paedophiles, moving known child abusers from town to town to protect them, fighting endless legal battles to prevent justice, protecting the assets of an organisation and so on ....

 

If there is a hell, there is a special place in it for Pell.

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How could you possibly be offended by a SONG, but not offended by a powerful man who was responsible for organisations and 'staff' that turned out to contain serial child rapists and abusers?!

 

 

 

To be fair, he has not been charged with anything nor has any wrongdoing been proven.

 

However, from the accounts so far I believe his role should be formally investigated and, if there is a case to answer, he should be put on trial.

 

If he has found to be complicit in the actions or cover-ups then I think he should face the music.

 

I must admit is really hard to stay objective in all this - some of the first hand accounts are very distressing and the responsible parties are nothing short of monsters.

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To be fair, Pell was a senior cleric in parishes all over the state/country that have had thousands of cases of proven child sexual abuse. In all these cases, it has since emerged that there were always stories, complaints, rumours floating about. In many instances known abusers were moved to other parishes, given extensive leave, or other measures to hide their crimes. In one case in the Hunter an abuse victim hung himself from the rafters of the local church, with a suicide note, saying he had tried for years to get the church to accept responsibility for his abuse (he actually survived..)

 

I find it vey hard to believe that Pell, being in a senior position in many of theses places, and knowing that there are thousands of cases, never heard anything, ever ..... all this going on around him, and he is the guy in charge and he had no inkling? Even when parents had approached him directly he didn't know?

 

What sort of leader hears about a guy hanging himself in a church, and has no clue why?

What sort of leader has parents approach him with claims of abuse, but ignores them?

 

But lets assume he didn't know. Lets assume he was either completely oblivious or incompetent and knew nothing about abuse.

 

When abuse became widely known, and victims started appearing, Pell then went about procuring legal services to protect the church, going so far as to accompany known paedophile priests to court, providing character references and assisting with them avoiding prosecution, using the wide and extensive influence and financial power of the church.

 

At the same time, he failed to use any of that power and money to assist victims.... in fact, he spent millions not in helping victims, but in trying to silence them and cover things up. This is well documented.

 

Regardless of whether he is found legally guilty, surely as a 'man of God' he has some responsibility towards victims?

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I heard Steve Price's comments - something along the lines that Minchin shouldn't use his musical talent to be disrespectful to Pell, and also that he is a Cardinal and therefore deserves some respect.

 

Utter tosh from Steve Price! Any person who holds a position in a made-up hierarchy within an institution that makes made-up its business is absolutely NOT entitled to any special respect! FFS!

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You earn respect. It isn't a perk of any job! Just ask TA! I would like to say the way we spoke about our previous PM was wrong, but he asked for it.

 

Pricey said he's fronted the commission in the past so what's the issue. Well fronting up means nothing. What he says there is the issue at hand. And clearly it hasn't been sufficient enough cause they want to question him a third time.

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I dont get why, because he is "too sick" to travel, that now the inquest has to sit in the middle of the night so poor old Pell can lie in local time.

 

FFS!!!

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Worth noting that the Doctor who detailed him being too sick to travel is the vatican's own doctor - now that's an independent assessment for you, and absolutely no conflict of interest!

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Worth noting that the Doctor who detailed him being too sick to travel is the vatican's own doctor - now that's an independent assessment for you, and absolutely no conflict of interest!

 

It worked for Skase, and that was only a fraction of the money that was involved compared to potential litigation out of this one

 

I'd love to see the Australian government say no tax free status for the church until he fronts, however I don't think either side wants to take the chance of losing every catholic vote

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You know what is offensive and disrespectful? Raping kids, protecting paedophiles, moving known child abusers from town to town to protect them, fighting endless legal battles to prevent justice, protecting the assets of an organisation and so on ....

 

Pulling a "Christopher Skase" yup, I'm calling it that. Feign illness to get out of facing the music.

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Pulling a "Christopher Skase" yup, I'm calling it that. Feign illness to get out of facing the music.

 

In fairness to Skase, he did die...

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I'd love to see the Australian government say no tax free status for the church

Fixed that for you

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I think there are a couple of good things to come out of this (in my opinion, and others will probably disagree):

 

1. In giving Pell permission to give evidence from abroad, the commission has removed any ability of a fair minded person to say they have been biased against the church. If the commissioner was completely bloody minded and demanded Pell to return the church would be crying about how biased the commissioner was in not taking into account Pell's medical condition. By allowing Pell to appear via video it kills of any argument of bias. So, if it comes down to it and the commission recommends charges (or some other action) be levelled against Pell/the church, then it takes any heat out of the argument that the commission was biased all along .... after all, wouldn't a biased commissioner have demanded he attend, regardless of health complaints.

 

2. This whole sorry affair has really given huge public attention to how evil and disgraceful the catholic church is. I hope there is a huge battle down the track with the commission/police/authorities demanding Pell to be returned and Pell refusing - it would show the wider public what a god-aweful institution the church is! Pell will go down as the Christopher Skase of the catholic church.

 

3. Which brings me to my final point. Can anyone name one person that has any type of respect for Skase? That's where this will go, and the vast majority of the Australian public will see the church in the same light they see people like Christopher Skase - scum who will do anything to protect themselves, even if it means screwing over everyone else.

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3. Which brings me to my final point. Can anyone name one person that has any type of respect for Skase? That's where this will go, and the vast majority of the Australian public will see the church in the same light they see people like Christopher Skase - scum who will do anything to protect themselves, even if it means screwing over everyone else.

 

I think it is much much worse in this case. Noone really expects a millionaire businessman to be doing things for any motive other than to further their own wealth.

 

Pell is supposed to be "employed" solely for the greater good and a "higher purpose" and to fulfill gods words and work.

 

So it could be argued that Skase just did what he was "employed to do" but did it illegally and most would not be too surprised.

 

Pell is going against all he was "employed" to do and all he has been talking, preaching and lecturing others on for his entire life. Unfortunately now though the catholic church are now getting viewed as corrupt businessmen where we will start seeing this as the expectation rather than the exception.

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The commission took the wrong approach, I would have asked if he was fine to travel to Spain, I hear they hold some pretty good inquisitions there. Doubt he would expect that

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Are we sure? ;)

Took the words right out of my mouth!

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I think there are a couple of good things to come out of this (in my opinion, and others will probably disagree):

 

1. In giving Pell permission to give evidence from abroad, the commission has removed any ability of a fair minded person to say they have been biased against the church. If the commissioner was completely bloody minded and demanded Pell to return the church would be crying about how biased the commissioner was in not taking into account Pell's medical condition. By allowing Pell to appear via video it kills of any argument of bias. So, if it comes down to it and the commission recommends charges (or some other action) be levelled against Pell/the church, then it takes any heat out of the argument that the commission was biased all along .... after all, wouldn't a biased commissioner have demanded he attend, regardless of health complaints.

 

2. This whole sorry affair has really given huge public attention to how evil and disgraceful the catholic church is. I hope there is a huge battle down the track with the commission/police/authorities demanding Pell to be returned and Pell refusing - it would show the wider public what a god-aweful institution the church is! Pell will go down as the Christopher Skase of the catholic church.

 

 

Great post.

 

* My father was a uniting church minister

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Imagine if you could temporarily be the Grim-Reaper, like Homer Simpson.

 

I think I could manage to clear out a lot of the trash, in a short while... you, you, you, you, ok not-you, you, you, you, and-you...

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Pasting below my quickly penned rant on wife's Facebook link to the video.

"If that Cardinal was a half decent human being he would come home and risk his health/life to help those that suffered abuse get answers.

What he sacred of dying ??

Why would he be?

Scared of the truth more like it .....

He will be coached in his answers and be able to control same far more easily via video link.

Unfortunately ... Like most organisations the ones at the top are often not the ones that have the best interests of their "customers" in mind. More worried about their own success. Life in the sanctuary of the Vatican State v's an enquiry in Victoria??

 

He should man up and face up. Anyhow. If there is a (his) god, I would think there a good chance he won't make it through the pearly gates but will get sent to that other place.

Rant over ...."

Edited by Mjainoz
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If there is a (his) god, I would think there a good chance he won't make it through the pearly gates but will get sent to that other place.

Rant over ...."

 

yeah but the Catholics can just say 3 hail Mary's and all is forgiven.

 

This thread is interesting. Not one Catholic defending their religion.

 

Then again we all do a sport that takes place on a sunday morning when they are at church asking for forgiveness

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According to Steve Price Pell has given evidence UNDER OATH and therefore should be believed. Talk about naive. And as for Pell's career? Well all the lying and obfuscation has gotten him close to the top. So yeah it's all been worth it.

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What Price doesn't seem to get, is that this is a Royal Commission; a public inquiry! As new information comes to light, they may need to ask different questions, or get a statement on such information that wasn't known about earlier in the process.

 

I summarise Price's position as a supporter of the catholic church's indifference to child abuse, and as someone who sees respect and protection for Pell as more important than the truth. He should be ashamed of his comments, but he won't be.

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Price is paid to take the extreme opposite opinion to the general public to get them mad and call in.

 

Same as today tonight and a current affair.

 

Alan jones is the same.

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Just to make it totally clear. I am not related to the Cardinal in any way whatsoever.

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According to Steve Price Pell has given evidence UNDER OATH and therefore should be believed. Talk about naive. And as for Pell's career? Well all the lying and obfuscation has gotten him close to the top. So yeah it's all been worth it.

Like i said earlier, Steve Price was all offended by Tim Minchins music.... he is OFFENDED BY A SONG but apparently he is ot offended by Australias most senior catholic being linked with child rapists ... says everything you need to know about devout catholics like Price.

 

Somgs by comedians = disrespectful and aweful

 

Priests raping kids = all ok!

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The commission took the wrong approach, I would have asked if he was fine to travel to Spain, I hear they hold some pretty good inquisitions there. Â Doubt he would expect that

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

 

Funny sketch, but factually incorrect.

 

EVERYONE (in Spain) expected the Spanish Inquisition, and its history remains as the classic symbol of the Catholic church's repression, intollerance, arrogance and self-indulgence.

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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

 

Only took someone just under 10 hours to get the reference. The commissioner is obviously not a python fan

 

It would have been poetic to see the church face an inquisition in Spain though

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Most Catholics wouldn't be trying to defend the indefensible. Most, like me, would hold opinions very close to those expressed here by Kristina Keneally

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/17/when-i-first-heard-tim-minchins-song-about-cardinal-pell-i-laughed-then-i-started-crying

 

Good piece, I think we could have done well to keep her in NSW politics, if only the politics hadnt got to her.

 

Surely its must be time for something like a revolution in the church where the "good Catholics" think of breaking away from the "old guard" for the most part they are showing no signs of remorse or a real desire to change.

 

Their actions have undoubtedly led to more deaths than any "terrorism" yet we punish them by giving them tax free status????

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Its an interesting thought about the 'new age' catholics taking on the 'old guard'.

 

When we were living in the UK few years back there was a lot of rumblings amongst the Church of England community along these lines ... well, sort of backwards really - with some parishes deciding they would convert to older/traditional ways rather than modernise.

 

The Church of England is a lot more modern that the catholic church (women clergy, ministers can marry and have families etc). Near where we lived there was a parish where the minister had made some statement about being open to having gay couples attend the church and even getting married there. This caused a huge furore and the majority of older parishioners demanded that the minister be replaced.

 

Rather than becoming more modern, this particular parish demanded that their church should become more conservative (no gays, get rid of women clergy ... ). That particular church/parish eventually converted wholesale to the Roman Catholic Church as they saw it as more conservative.

 

The last I heard there was an argument about where the new catholic parish would meet - officially the building was owned by the Church of England ...

 

I can't seem to post links but if you look up St Peters in Folkestone (Kent) that was the church I refer to.

 

At the same time there were 5-6 bishops/senior clergy who also converted to Catholicism, and there were something line 50-6- parishes that wanted to do the same. Not ever sure what happened to it....

 

Anyway, I see your point about the more modern Christians 'rising up' to challenge the old school establishment, but it seems that (in some places at least) the more devout people actually want to openly challenge any type of modernisation. In Kent (when I lived there) there was open discourse amongst Church of England people that there should be no place for women in the church and no place for gay people....etc. They really wanted to hang onto old school conservative value from the 50's .... not just hang on to them, but actively more in a more conservative direction, rather than a more modern one ....

 

I thought Jesus was all about accepting everyone .... .!?

Edited by TryTriB4Forty

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I thought Jesus was all about accepting everyone .... .!?

 

Yeah its a bit ironic when Christians give (hard line) Muslims a hard time about being selective in their reading of their texts, when Christians seem to be expert at it.

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Yeah its a bit ironic when Christians give (hard line) Muslims a hard time about being selective in their reading of their texts, when Christians seem to be expert at it.

 

Just an aside, The Catholics or CoE don't have a monopoly on this. In the north of the UK ( Rochdale, Rotherham) there has been a huge issue with organised pedo gangs of Muslim men carrying repeated raping of children of a long period of time. The local mosques knew of this and actively obstructed Police in their investigation. It's still happening in some areas.

 

I don't care what flavour of book you subscribe to but men ( and women) that do this and then hide behind the sanctimonious protection of their religion have not earned the air they breathe.

 

Sadly, the children that need protecting the most are ones we only know about once they become victims. They are the ones that need 12ft high and 6ft thick defences, not the perpetrators.

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Agreed FP.

 

For mine, I think all religions are as bad as each other.

 

The operate no different to multinational businesses - the guys at the top live in palaces and fly private jets, tinker in politics and to hell with everyone else.

 

Organised religion is about as hypocritical as it gets. And this whole saga with Pell is a prime example.

 

As pointed out by Roxii, the hypocrisy is made even worse by the fact they spend an inordinate amount of time preaching about helping the less fortunate and supporting those in need. What a lot of bullshit - they are in it for themselves and themselves alone.

Edited by TryTriB4Forty
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Agreed FP.

 

For mine, I think all religions are as bad as each other.

 

The operate no different to multinational businesses - the guys at the top live in palaces and fly private jets, tinker in politics and to hell with everyone else.

True :(

 

I was reading your post about the church in Kent. Funnily enough, the village where my Mother was born and grew up, culturally is about one small step removed from that island in 'The Wicker Man', very strong connection with the church, all gargoyles, brimstone and hellfire stuff ( nice jam though :) but they have a female vicar, in fact I think they are on their second. ( not quite sure what happened to the first, probably exiled for watching tv on a Sunday or something).

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I saw Bolts written thing in the Terrorgraph today (whilst flicking through it at a café when getting coffee - I'd never pay for the damn thing).

 

I really couldn't believe what he was writing...

 

One thing stuck in my mind when he said Pell was being pursuit by a 'lynch mob' (referring to abuse victims)

 

What sort of sick individual refers to people who were raped as children and are now trying to find answers as a 'lynch mob'. I mean, that's pretty low

 

If Bolts wife was raped and his family demanded the questioning of the perpetrator or a colleague of the perpetrator I wonder how he would react to being referred to as a 'lynch mob' ....

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again .... the fact the Andrew Bolt is offended by a SONG WRITTEN BY A COMEDIAN but is not offended by an organisation that systematically covered up the rape of kids says it all ...

Edited by TryTriB4Forty
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Not that this is a politics thread, but I can't see why anyone would expect anything different out of Bolt. I still can't fathom how he was ever on channel 10 of all channels. But I would expect nothing less of him cause I have less than zero respect for his opinion. If he'd had the opposite opinion, I'd have to start questioning everything I believed in!

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Not that this is a politics thread, but I can't see why anyone would expect anything different out of Bolt. I still can't fathom how he was ever on channel 10 of all channels. But I would expect nothing less of him cause I have less than zero respect for his opinion. If he'd had the opposite opinion, I'd have to start questioning everything I believed in!

 

I suspect that being a professional arsehole is working out well for Bolt - probably makes more than most of us.

 

But, as I alluded to before, the best outcome is that Pell gets a fair trial and faces the music. I would find that being judged (harshly :) by a member of the judiciary and criticised soundly as a prison term is announced would be the most satisfying result - much more than a bunch of angry people throwing eggs at him. Can you imagine the shock waves throughout the church when their number 3 man is given a prison sentence?

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