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25 minutes ago, Paul Every said:

Today, three former presidents attended John Lewis' funeral to pay their respects.

Meanwhile, Trump continued to tweet his divisive shit and lies.

Clutching at straws here. 

The big difference her is the 3 that attended are politicians and they probably went because they thought they should.

Trump is no politician and probably doubtful he had much to do with him. As we know Trump does not play the game of a typical politician.

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2 hours ago, IronmanFoz said:

Clutching at straws here. 

The big difference her is the 3 that attended are politicians and they probably went because they thought they should.

Trump is no politician and probably doubtful he had much to do with him. As we know Trump does not play the game of a typical politician.

Really? F*cking, really?

"They probably went because they thought they should."

Clinton knew Lewis for over 50 years. "I just loved him. I always will and I’m so grateful that he stayed true to form."

Listen to George W's eulogy. Sincere and genuinely respectful. Listen to Bush recount being on the Edmund Pettus Bridge in 1998 to commemorate the 30th anniversary. Understand why Bush was there then and you'll appreciate why he attended today.

And Obama? There "because he thought he should"? Oh, FFS?!!!!

Yes, Trump is no politician. Unfortunately, he is no president either. The fact that he was absent, and quite likely unwelcome, is testament to that. That which is Trump's greatest failing. Not only as the president, but also as a human being.

Today, Trump's proved himself incapable of acknowledging the history of the country he's (supposedly) presiding over, and unable to honour and pay respect to a man who not only dedicated his life, but was willing to sacrifice it too, to successfully create a more just and equitable society.

It's nothing to do with Trump "not play(ing) the game of a typical politician". It's about Trump showing some restraint, some decency and some humanity for just one single day. Having enough awareness to not tweet his bile and bullshit on the day Lewis was buried and mourned.

Not too much to ask. Especially from a president. From a leader. Unfortunately, way too much to expect.

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Speaking of George W I have to laugh how ever since Ellen was pictured sitting next to him at a baseball games the left have gone full cancel on her. She is friends with a republican, quick let's unleash all the dirt we can find that we have been ignoring up until now because she was one of ours... 

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This will end well.... 

"The Seattle City Council proposed a motion to abolish its police department and to instead "create a civilian led department of community safety & violence prevention. 
The council recommends replacing the Seattle Police Department with: "culturally-relevant expertise rooted in community connections, "housing, food security, and other basic needs," and "trauma-informed, gender-affirming, anti-racist praxis."

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1 hour ago, more said:

Speaking of George W I have to laugh how ever since Ellen was pictured sitting next to him at a baseball games the left have gone full cancel on her. She is friends with a republican, quick let's unleash all the dirt we can find that we have been ignoring up until now because she was one of ours... 

Is it "friends with a Republican" or "friends with a homophobe" that is the issue here. She faced the same issues when she lobbied to get Kevin Hart reinstated for the Oscars, despite banning people from her show that made similar comments to those two.

The comments around the toxic nature of the workplace she rules over have been going on for a while. It's probably bubbled up now due to the environment they are in working from her $27M property, which she referred to as being in a prison with the Covid lockdown. 

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9 hours ago, Paul Every said:

Today, three former presidents attended John Lewis' funeral to pay their respects.

Meanwhile, Trump continued to tweet his divisive shit and lies.

And if he'd attended, the media and people like you would have accused him of attention seeking  and being divisive 

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34 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

And if he'd attended, the media and people like you would have accused him of attention seeking  and being divisive 

How do you know that? Paul and others are talking about what did happen. The issue is what Trump did, not what he didn't or what Paul and others would have done.

But is an effective tactic to avoid the issue and blame others!!

 

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5 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

How do you know that?

Form

As I've said before, Trump could find a cure for cancer, and people like Paul would complain about him putting oncologists out of work 

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3 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Form

As I've said before, Trump could find a cure for cancer, and people like Paul would complain about him putting oncologists out of work 

I'm back on Oz and back to the centre. Form, sure you just doubled own on getting others to defend something they didn't do, while ignoring what Trump actually did do.

If Trump cured cancer I think we would think he was awesome, what we want him to do is control COVID by being a better President and he won't do it.

Can we talk about what Trump and Paul actually did not what they didn't

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4 hours ago, more said:

This will end well.... 

"The Seattle City Council proposed a motion to abolish its police department and to instead "create a civilian led department of community safety & violence prevention. 
The council recommends replacing the Seattle Police Department with: "culturally-relevant expertise rooted in community connections, "housing, food security, and other basic needs," and "trauma-informed, gender-affirming, anti-racist praxis."

Lucky they all have guns.   They are going to need them. 

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1 hour ago, BarryBevan said:

I'm back on Oz and back to the centre. Form, sure you just doubled own on getting others to defend something they didn't do, while ignoring what Trump actually did do.

If Trump cured cancer I think we would think he was awesome, what we want him to do is control COVID by being a better President and he won't do it.

Can we talk about what Trump and Paul actually did not what they didn't

Here's a scenario - what if Trump was not invited and told by his advisers not to go?

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

Lucky they all have guns.   They are going to need them. 

But I've been reliably informed that nobody needs a gun because the police will look after them? 

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4 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Is it "friends with a Republican" or "friends with a homophobe" that is the issue here. She faced the same issues when she lobbied to get Kevin Hart reinstated for the Oscars, despite banning people from her show that made similar comments to those two.

 

I dont know anything about George W being a homophobe? But I thought what she did was great-showed that you can have difference in opinion or politics and still be friends. But it seems more and more now it's a case of either your with us or against us.. Sad. 

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Through Executive Leadership, changing these curves:

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/florida

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/texas

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/california

might do more for November than suggest the election might be postponed. After all it is safe enough to go to Disney so it should be safe enough to vote.

Or he could step aside and let some one like Larry Hogan run

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17 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

Is that what happened?

The question “was Trump invited?” Was asked at a press conference 2 days ago but no answer was given. Considering Lewis’s family requested that every attendee wear a face mask whilst seated in the church I doubt Trump would even consider attending. 
A memorial service was held for Lewis in Washington earlier in the week, for all politicians and officials but Trump choose not to attend. Lewis’s body was also laying in state for a few days at Washington for anyone to pay their respects but Trump choose not to do that either. In fact Trump told reporters he wouldn’t going to do that either. 

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Lewis boycotted the past "State of the Union" addresses from POTUS, so it's pretty obvious they weren't exactly on the same page.

I don't blame Trump for not attending ( if he was indeed even invited). He would have been lambasted as a hypocrite, and it wouldn't have been good for his campaign ( or ego) to be roundly heckled by what would obviously have been a pretty pro-Democrat crowd.

Whilst I was never a fan of George W., kudos for his attendance and heartfelt eulogy.

Shows people can agree to disagree without being dicks about it. :lol:

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Lewis boycotted the past "State of the Union" addresses from POTUS, so it's pretty obvious they weren't exactly on the same page.

I don't blame Trump for not attending ( if he was indeed even invited). He would have been lambasted as a hypocrite, and it wouldn't have been good for his campaign ( or ego) to be roundly heckled by what would obviously have been a pretty pro-Democrat crowd.

Whilst I was never a fan of George W., kudos for his attendance and heartfelt eulogy.

Shows people can agree to disagree without being dicks about it. :lol:

He could have attended and made a genuine speech which could help. Of course if he genuinely does not believe in what Lewis and others stood for, then yes better not to attend at all.

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Trump banning tiktok now. 
 

amusing given the servers are in California.  
 

but not banning google and Facebook that have heaps more data than tiktok. 
 

tiktok have a heap of data from 16yr old girls dancing together. 
 

fb has people’s emails and birthdates etc..

google tracks exactly where people are moving minute by minute. And all of their personal email. 
 

but sure. Ban tiktok. LOL 

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4 minutes ago, Peter said:

Trump banning tiktok now. 
 

amusing given the servers are in California.  
 

but not banning google and Facebook that have heaps more data than tiktok. 
 

tiktok have a heap of data from 16yr old girls dancing together. 
 

fb has people’s emails and birthdates etc..

google tracks exactly where people are moving minute by minute. And all of their personal email. 
 

but sure. Ban tiktok. LOL 

Because it's owned by China. 

 

Interesting, the Congressional investigation into the Big Four's business practices, but Jim Jordan's ( Republican from Ohio) primary concern:  “Big Tech is out to get conservatives,”

https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/facebook-apple-amazon-google-ceos-testify-before-us-congress-bezos-promises-action-if-investigation-reveals-data-misuse-8655401.html

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Exactly. They are fine with american companies spying on Americans.  But not Chinese?  And as I said its girls Dancing.  Not adults email and movements.  
 

its a Joke really 

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1 hour ago, Mike Del said:

The question “was Trump invited?” Was asked at a press conference 2 days ago but no answer was given. Considering Lewis’s family requested that every attendee wear a face mask whilst seated in the church I doubt Trump would even consider attending. 
A memorial service was held for Lewis in Washington earlier in the week, for all politicians and officials but Trump choose not to attend. Lewis’s body was also laying in state for a few days at Washington for anyone to pay their respects but Trump choose not to do that either. In fact Trump told reporters he wouldn’t going to do that either. 

Well if no answer was given, we can just assume the worst, can't we?

By the way, what did you think of St Barack's politicisation of the whole thing in his speech?  All good? 

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53 minutes ago, BarryBevan said:

He could have attended and made a genuine speech which could help. 

Bullshit 

The media would have spent the rest of the day dissecting his speech, and the following three days whining that it had become all about him

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

Bullshit 

The media would have spent the rest of the day dissecting his speech, and the following three days whining that it had become all about him

Agree.  However he couldn’t read the perfect speech.  
 

he would lose track and start rambling and then just say stupid shit which as you said, the media would be all over. 

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14 minutes ago, Peter said:

Agree.  However he couldn’t read the perfect speech.  
 

he would lose track and start rambling and then just say stupid shit which as you said, the media would be all over. 

Loved the Corona virus POTUS briefing where he spent 1 minute out of 7 talking about Corona, and the rest telling everyone how great he was. ( Election campaign advert paid for by the TV stations expecting him to say something relevant).

Then there was the segue when he started talking about opening schools , but had a brain fade and rambled for a couple of minutes about his mate Mariano Rivera "the greatest relief pitcher to every play baseball".

It's a true "stream of consciousness" style of delivery. No punctuation. No full stops. One sentence , 10 minutes long.

It's hilarious. But distressing that it comes from one of the most powerful people in the world.

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25 minutes ago, Peter said:

Agree.  However he couldn’t read the perfect speech.  
 

he would lose track and start rambling and then just say stupid shit which as you said, the media would be all over. 

Really?

He delivered an outstanding speech at Mt Rushmore on July 4.  How was that portrayed by the press?

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8 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Really?

He delivered an outstanding speech at Mt Rushmore on July 4.  How was that portrayed by the press?

From memory, it was reported that it was a same old, same old speech

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2 minutes ago, -- AJ -- said:

From memory, it was reported that it was a same old, same old speech

Define 'same old, same old'

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

By the way, what did you think of St Barack's politicisation of the whole thing in his speech?  All good? 

Better than good. Excellent.

It's difficult to imagine John Lewis not being proud of and humbled by Obama's eulogy.

Well worth a read.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/30/politics/barack-obama-john-lewis-eulogy-full-transcript/index.html

Not sure about "politicisation of the whole thing"? Other than alluding to contemporary relevance of the BLM protests (without even name-checking the movement) and a call to expand voting to all Americans, it wasn't excessively political. Especially considering any eulogy is bound to expound on the deceased's life, passions, achievements, beliefs and ideals.

Nor was it partisan. For example, among the more political was Obama's oratory promoting the importance of democratic freedom:

"Like John, we have got to fight even harder for the most powerful tool we have, which is the right to vote. The Voting Rights Act is one of the crowning achievements of our democracy. It's why John crossed that bridge. It's why he spilled his blood. And by the way, it was the result of Democratic and Republican efforts. President Bush, who spoke here earlier, and his father, both signed its renewal when they were in office. President Clinton didn't have to because it was the law when he arrived so instead he made a law that made it easier for people to register to vote."

Some of Obama's words were undoubtedly pertinent to today's USA, including these among the closing:

"And that's what John Lewis teaches us. That's where real courage comes from. Not from turning on each other, but by turning towards one another. Not by sowing hatred and division, but by spreading love and truth. Not by avoiding our responsibilities to create a better America and a better world, but by embracing those responsibilities with with joy and perseverance and discovering that in our beloved community, we do not walk alone."

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9 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Define 'same old, same old'

The same crap he''s be spouting for 5 years.  Fake News, conspiracies, Facists etc etc etc. 

"Trump Uses Mount Rushmore Speech to Deliver Divisive Culture War Message" - NY Times Link

"The purpose was to stoke the culture wars and mobilize angry white voters. Fortunately, it may not actually work" - The Guardian Link

"He condemned those who targeted statues as "angry mobs" trying to deface "our most sacred memorials".

The president, who has been heavily criticised for his handling of the US coronavirus pandemic, made little reference to the disease that has now claimed almost 130,000 American lives. - Both from the BBC Link

"Keystone, South Dakota (CNN)President Donald Trump on Friday made an impassioned appeal to his base while in the shadow of Mount Rushmore instead of striking a unifying tone, railing against what he called a "merciless campaign" by his political foes to erase history by removing monuments some say are symbols of racial oppression." - CNN  Link

and also from CNN

The 28 most outrageous lines from Donald Trumps Mount Rushmore Speech Link

 

 

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1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

Really?

He delivered an outstanding speech at Mt Rushmore on July 4.  How was that portrayed by the press?

Don’t know. I didn’t see it. To be honest I don’t even watch him anymore. 

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2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

Bullshit 

The media would have spent the rest of the day dissecting his speech, and the following three days whining that it had become all about him

Triple down, what would have happened had he done something that he didn't rather than debate what he actually did.

Bonus point for swearing

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57 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Really?

He delivered an outstanding speech at Mt Rushmore on July 4.  How was that portrayed by the press?

Independence Day presidential speeches are traditionally nationalistic and apolitical.

Since you've questioned Obama's eulogy for being politicised, how do frame square these phrases from Trump's Mt Rushmore speech:

  • "far left fascism"
  • "left wing cultural revolution"
  • "violent mayhem........run by liberal Democrats in every case"

Actually, maybe you could get a job as his speech writer!  :thumbsup:

He did talk a lot about statues:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-transcript-at-mount-rushmore-4th-of-july-event

Trump uncharacteristically appeared to stay on script, despite some the drivel there in. I suppose you could consider that "outstanding" in comparison to his recent covid press briefings.

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1 hour ago, IronmanFoz said:

I wonder how we would perceive Trump if he allowed us all to race again ;)

I’d think it would be irresponsible however I also want to see him get in again. 
 

he can’t get them out of the absolute mess they are in. 
And poor old joe will be on a hiding to nothing when or if he gets in.  
he can’t personally fix their issues.  
 

so might as well leave trump there and wait 4 years.  
 

ive bet money that trump will still be in office come December 

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Biden can hardly string a coherent sentence together, I wonder if the media will be as critical of him... 

Imagine if this incoherent mess about loving kids jumping on his lap was said by Trump!! 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Peter said:

ive bet money that trump will still be in office come December 

What's the bet on a delayed election, which would leave him in office in December? Very unlikely I would assume.

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

 

ive bet money that trump will still be in office come December 

He will definitely be. The handover doesn't normally happen until the inauguration in January.

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6 hours ago, Paul Every said:

Better than good. Excellent.

For the most part, yes.  He was certainly a far better orator than a President

But if you seriously see nothing wrong with comparing Trump to a genuine racist like George Wallace, you're either being deliberately disingenuous or far more blindly partisan than you could ever accuse me of being:

"George Wallace may be gone. But we can witness our federal government sending agents to use tear gas and batons against peaceful demonstrators"

Peaceful demonstrators, my arse

Disgusting

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6 hours ago, Paul Every said:

Independence Day presidential speeches are traditionally nationalistic and apolitical.

Since you've questioned Obama's eulogy for being politicised, how do frame square these phrases from Trump's Mt Rushmore speech:

  • "far left fascism"
  • "left wing cultural revolution"
  • "violent mayhem........run by liberal Democrats in every case"

Actually, maybe you could get a job as his speech writer!  :thumbsup:

He did talk a lot about statues:

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-transcript-at-mount-rushmore-4th-of-july-event

Trump uncharacteristically appeared to stay on script, despite some the drivel there in. I suppose you could consider that "outstanding" in comparison to his recent covid press briefings.

Well he wasn't politicising a funeral for starters.  But I digress...

"We believe in equal opportunity, equal justice and equal treatment for citizens of every race, background, religion and creed"

Trump's speech was a celebration of four great men and the values they espoused which ultimately led to the abolition of evils such as slavery and Jim Crow laws

Values which are ignored by the contemporary left as they seek to rewrite history for their own political advantage

And true to form, the press try to gaslight the public by calling any reference to the unifying ideals of the founding fathers as "dark and divisive"

 It's bullshit, and anyone who genuinely buys it is what Lenin used to refer to as a "useful idiot"

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3 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

For the most part, yes.  He was certainly a far better orator than a President

But if you seriously see nothing wrong with comparing Trump to a genuine racist like George Wallace, you're either being deliberately disingenuous or far more blindly partisan than you could ever accuse me of being:

"George Wallace may be gone. But we can witness our federal government sending agents to use tear gas and batons against peaceful demonstrators"

Peaceful demonstrators, my arse

Disgusting

Interestingly, Trump just may be far better orator than he is a president too, as unfortunate as that is, given he so often appears to have the communication skills of a developmentally delayed child.

Well, neither of us were in Lafayette Park on June 1st, and our views certainly differ, however numerous accounts bear witness to exactly that. Let's just go with the testimony of Major Adam De Marco of the D.C. National Guard as one of many who were there, but you won't have to search hard to find many more.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/07/27/dc-national-guard-officer-challenges-account-of-violent-clearing-of-protesters-in-lafayette-square/

Similarly, there's the footage of behaviour of protestors, including from the Channel Seven News crew, also bear witness.

             

"George Wallace may be gone. But we can witness our federal government sending agents to use tear gas and batons against peaceful demonstrators"

In the context of the preceding and following paragraph, and indeed in the context of the entire eulogy, the context of the occasion, the context of history of the US civil rights movement to which it referred, and most importantly, in the context of John Lewis' life, that sentence is not by any means unreasonable.

Did Obama compare Trump to Wallace? No. Or infer Trump was as racist as Wallace? Or even mention Trump? No and no again.

Did Obama compare the struggles of 50 years ago to today and call for vigilance in safeguarding democratic ideals? Resoundingly yes. He spoke of ideals of fairness and equity and democracy which transcend Republican and Democratic values, as these were the ideals that Lewis stood for. And yes, he certainly also spoke of the current threats to those ideals in today's America.

"I know this is a celebration of John's life. There are some who might say we shouldn't dwell on such things. But that's why I'm talking about it. John Lewis devoted his time on this Earth fighting the very attacks on democracy and what's best in America that we are seeing circulate right now."

Obama's eulogy shared and celebrated Lewis' life and passion and legacy. Maybe even with a little of the "good trouble, necessary trouble" that Lewis encouraged.

It's a shame that some can only dismiss the acknowledgement of such virtues as politicising.

 

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3 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

Well he wasn't politicising a funeral for starters.  But I digress...

"We believe in equal opportunity, equal justice and equal treatment for citizens of every race, background, religion and creed"

Trump's speech was a celebration of four great men and the values they espoused which ultimately led to the abolition of evils such as slavery and Jim Crow laws

Values which are ignored by the contemporary left as they seek to rewrite history for their own political advantage

And true to form, the press try to gaslight the public by calling any reference to the unifying ideals of the founding fathers as "dark and divisive"

 It's bullshit, and anyone who genuinely buys it is what Lenin used to refer to as a "useful idiot"

As I said, better than the usual Trump drivel because he managed to stay on script, but that's a very low bar and I'm not going to eat a Curate's egg on this one.

Predictably, you're happy to swallow it whole and look for seconds.

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5 hours ago, Paul Every said:

Interestingly, Trump just may be far better orator than he is a president too, as unfortunate as that is, given he so often appears to have the communication skills of a developmentally delayed child.

Well, neither of us were in Lafayette Park on June 1st, and our views certainly differ, however numerous accounts bear witness to exactly that. Let's just go with the testimony of Major Adam De Marco of the D.C. National Guard as one of many who were there, but you won't have to search hard to find many more.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/07/27/dc-national-guard-officer-challenges-account-of-violent-clearing-of-protesters-in-lafayette-square/

Similarly, there's the footage of behaviour of protestors, including from the Channel Seven News crew, also bear witness.

             

"George Wallace may be gone. But we can witness our federal government sending agents to use tear gas and batons against peaceful demonstrators"

In the context of the preceding and following paragraph, and indeed in the context of the entire eulogy, the context of the occasion, the context of history of the US civil rights movement to which it referred, and most importantly, in the context of John Lewis' life, that sentence is not by any means unreasonable.

Did Obama compare Trump to Wallace? No. Or infer Trump was as racist as Wallace? Or even mention Trump? No and no again.

Did Obama compare the struggles of 50 years ago to today and call for vigilance in safeguarding democratic ideals? Resoundingly yes. He spoke of ideals of fairness and equity and democracy which transcend Republican and Democratic values, as these were the ideals that Lewis stood for. And yes, he certainly also spoke of the current threats to those ideals in today's America.

"I know this is a celebration of John's life. There are some who might say we shouldn't dwell on such things. But that's why I'm talking about it. John Lewis devoted his time on this Earth fighting the very attacks on democracy and what's best in America that we are seeing circulate right now."

Obama's eulogy shared and celebrated Lewis' life and passion and legacy. Maybe even with a little of the "good trouble, necessary trouble" that Lewis encouraged.

It's a shame that some can only dismiss the acknowledgement of such virtues as politicising.

 

Oh, so he was referring to the peaceful mob at the historic St John's church which had been peacefully set on fire...

And why the reference to Wallace (incidentally, a fellow Democrat) if not as a comparison to Trump?  

And the ideals and virtues you refer to are the exact same ones as those that Trump spoke of at Mt Rushmore, which are apparently 'same old, same old'  The same ideals and virtues that formed the basis of MLK's dreams (who was also noted and praised by Trump) 

The fact remains that the struggles of 50 years ago and longer were against Democrats. And the only dream of MLK's that hasn't come to fruition is the inability of Democrats (including St Barack) to see past skin colour  

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