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Peter

Trump is the President

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17 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

I don't see the relevance of the border wall to Hillary destroying evidence?

Of course you don't.

 

20 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

to blame Comey

 

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1 minute ago, Bored@work said:

Of course you don't.

 

 

Sorry, I thought we were discussing the timing of Comey's pre-election updates re: Hillary's emails

In response to your question, yes, Trump is blaming the Democrats for shutting down the government.  Probably because their actions have led to the shutting down of the government

Not blaming them prior to the shutdown was a mistake

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16 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Sorry, I thought we were discussing the timing of Comey's pre-election updates re: Hillary's emails

In response to your question, yes, Trump is blaming the Democrats for shutting down the government.  Probably because their actions have led to the shutting down of the government

Not blaming them prior to the shutdown was a mistake

Looks like voting trump In was a mistake 

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23 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Probably because their actions have led to the shutting down of the government

Not blaming them prior to the shutdown was a mistake

The dems agreed to $25B on border security fir broad measures and the GOP has spent $2B. The wall is just trump trying to make up a boogie man to rile up right wing folks and get votes.

Illegal immigration has been declining and most come via planes, cars etc.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/28/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/%3famp=1

trump is just a simple fool who managed to survive this far by GOP owning all of the numbers. He will now be schooled in politics by people who have been doing it for decades.

the boogie man play won’t work any longer, see recent mid terms for what the people think of it.....biggest loss since 1974.

Edited by Nath.
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The dems don't have to agree to do anything.  He will have to get them on side to get anything done.  If he doesn't like that , then he should have made sure the Republicans held their majority.  I think I used to hear comments that Obama "got nothing done".  Maybelline now Trump will find out how hard it is to get things done when you don't hold all three houses.

Is there some reason he couldn't get the money approved before Xmas, when the Republicans held all the houses?  Or did they need more than 50.1% of the vote?  That's something I didn't understand.

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They need 60 votes so at least 9 or 10 Democrats. 

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By the way if trump loses this battle for funding he’s done, and it’s not looking very good for him at the moment. 

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11 minutes ago, Rog said:

By the way if trump loses this battle for funding he’s done, and it’s not looking very good for him at the moment. 

People have been saying “he’s done” since he started campaigning. He’s like a cockroach or a cane toad though. 

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The people saying he is done now are the ones who elected him. They are basically hanging on to the wall promise as his main campaign promise. He is not going to survive a defeat on that front. 

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6 hours ago, Rog said:

By the way anyone interested in politics should check out Slowburn https://castro.fm/podcast/d764b38e-65d0-4e8d-a865-1d261e5bf353

Thanks I'll give it a listen. I'm interested in politics but find it frustrating trying to  sort out all the lies and BS. 

It would be interesting to visit Florida, Texas etc to see what the ppl are saying about Trump right now. 

I know you are living in NY but they have always been very Anti Trump.

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31 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Thanks I'll give it a listen. I'm interested in politics but find it frustrating trying to  sort out all the lies and BS. 

The trick is to read articles from both CNN and Fox on any particular topic.  The things they agree on are facts, everything else is opinion

Same applies here with NewsCorp and ABC/Fairfax/Guardian

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Trump said Mexico would pay for it 55 seconds into this speech.  

So the Democrats would be so dumb to give him one cent of the 5 billion he is demanding.  

 

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Could he actually get the shits over this and quit being the president?

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2 hours ago, Peter said:

Could he actually get the shits over this and quit being the president?

Then he doesn’t have the protection he has at the moment, from the investigations and impending charges from the 17 investigations into his corruption and illegal behaviours.....he is delaying the inevitable and impending doom.

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1 hour ago, Nath. said:

Then he doesn’t have the protection he has at the moment, from the investigations and impending charges from the 17 investigations into his corruption and illegal behaviours.....he is delaying the inevitable and impending doom.

Couldn’t pence just pardon him?

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Not for state charges, can’t pardon them.....and pence will end up implicated. He was miraculously picked to be VP on urging from Paul Manafort. He wasn’t in the top 10 to be picked and then Manafort made up a bogus mechanical issue on trumps plane one day when they were going somewhere, so he could bring pence to meet trump and convince trump to pick him.

Pence is also “under investigation for lying to the FBI over Mike Flynn, conspiracy to obstruct justice over Flynn’s ties to Turkey and Russia, violating the Logan Act, and other serious unnamed offenses that sources refused to specify.”

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14 hours ago, Peter said:

Trump said Mexico would pay for it 55 seconds into this speech.  

So the Democrats would be so dumb to give him one cent of the 5 billion he is demanding.  

 

In a normal presidency, I'd have said they'd have probably meet half way or something to get things going.  This ain't no normal presidency!  I don't think they'll bend.  And they've got all his own words he's spoken in the past to haunt him with, "I'll make Mexico pay for it", and "I'll be proud to shut down the govt.  I won't blame the democrats".  It was funny when I went to a site the other day and the page was closed with a note on the front, then I realised it was a us govt agency.

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Security people at airports not getting paid so hundreds of them calling in sick to work other jobs.

If Trump is so worried about security of Americans let’s see how that works out.

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8 minutes ago, Nath. said:

Security people at airports not getting paid so hundreds of them calling in sick to work other jobs.

If Trump is so worried about security of Americans let’s see how that works out.

Won't they get paid in lieu though when everything gets back on track? 

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5 billion to build a wall seems cheap? Hell our labor party spent 1 billion on a tunnel that never even started...

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1 hour ago, more said:

Won't they get paid in lieu though when everything gets back on track? 

Does their bank / landlord/ grocery store / chemist / supermarket /etc,  accept the excuse that they will get paid one day, when trump decides he will accept the deal given to him?

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1 hour ago, Nath. said:

Does their bank / landlord/ grocery store / chemist / supermarket /etc,  accept the excuse that they will get paid one day, when trump decides he will accept the deal given to him?

Yeah sorry what I meant is are they expected to work despite not being paid, or will they be paid in lieu regardless of whether they work or not? Surely they can't be expected to work and not get paid regardless of when ever pay day will be?

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Just back from the states, my understanding from news reports was that in past shutdowns they got back pay if an employee, however there are many engaged as contractors who don’t get back pay when the shutdown ends.

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39 minutes ago, more said:

Yeah sorry what I meant is are they expected to work despite not being paid, or will they be paid in lieu regardless of whether they work or not? Surely they can't be expected to work and not get paid regardless of when ever pay day will be?

Essential services have to work and won’t be paid until it’s over, non essential are closed down, what a debacle.

the thing is, they house approved a plan overnight and sent it to the senate. This is the same plan that the house, the senate & trump agreed to previously. On that occasion when trump watched Fox News and they were carrying on a bout it he pulled the rug out. 

Now it’s stuck with him not agreeing and accepting it so Mitch McConnell in the senate won’t approve. This will pressure McConnell in the longer term as it goes on because already 7 GOP Senators have aggreed to it as they are up for re-election in 2020. And there are many more GOP Senators up for re-election and they don’t want this stain on their record. So it will be approved by the majority and good to go....except for trump.

Edited by Nath.

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31 minutes ago, Nath. said:

Essential services have to work and won’t be paid until it’s over, non essential are closed down, what a debacle.

the thing is, they house approved a plan overnight and sent it to the senate. This is the same plan that the house, the senate & trump agreed to previously. On that occasion when trump watched Fox News and they were carrying on a bout it he pulled the rug out. 

Now it’s stuck with him not agreeing and accepting it so Mitch McConnell in the senate won’t approve. This will pressure McConnell in the longer term as it goes on because already 7 GOP Senators have aggreed to it as they are up for re-election in 2020. And there are many more GOP Senators up for re-election and they don’t want this stain on their record. So it will be approved by the majority and good to go....except for trump.

Wtf Trump has been saying this could go for months, how in the hell do they expect them to go months without pay?

What a joke of a country

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Heard a snippet of trump agin in the radio this morning. 

I stand by what I said earlier, for me it’s not about political sides or policies it’s just freaking scary that a guy who walks and talks like a intellectually stunted teenager has become the “most powerful man on the planet”.

he is making George W look like a Nobel winning scientist. 

Its plain freaking scary. More worrying is if this is now where to next. 

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2 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

So do the politicians themselves get paid through this?

I read they're about to get a pay rise. 

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Something like 10k.  I didn't think it was all of them, sound like maybe Trump and a heap of his top shelf.

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On 05/01/2019 at 8:08 PM, more said:

Usa

What a joke of a country

It’s awesome and shit.  

Hard to believe. 

11pm at night walking from the staple centre to my hotel, was honestly scared I wouldn’t make it back. And I used to go to king cross at 2am several time a week in the 90s.  

Then in Maui the most amazing beautiful location I’ve even been too. 

Both usa. 

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15 hours ago, Peter said:

It’s awesome and shit.  

Hard to believe. 

11pm at night walking from the staple centre to my hotel, was honestly scared I wouldn’t make it back. And I used to go to king cross at 2am several time a week in the 90s.  

Then in Maui the most amazing beautiful location I’ve even been too. 

Both usa. 

Philadelphia did the Rocky tour and explored the inner city. A few blocks over we drove into the neighbourhood known as Killadelphia, it was like a war zone.

Same city.

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So we are only 1 week into 2019 and check this out for the US....but trump is worried about Mexicans coming across the border harming US cutizens. Geez those Mexicans must do some damage that is not reported anywhere!

 

6D2C6A05-8731-4FFE-8465-BA3AF551D752.png

Edited by Nath.

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How do you know some of the crimes weren't commited by Mexicans?

After binge watching a heap of narcos, real narcos of mexico, reading up on the drug cartels, watching Sicario etc I can kind of understand why they want to protect the border-there are a hell of a lot of very very very very bad people involved in the drug trade in Mexico and close to the border 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/6929615/child-hitman-nicknamed-wolf-boy-reveals-how-he-tortured-drug-cartel-rivals-by-cooking-them-alive/amp/

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2557171/amp/Mexican-drug-cartel-hitman-says-committed-800-murders-stopped-keeping-track.html

 

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Yes you are correct, there are some bad buggers in Mexico. Just like all countries and all races.

i was trying to use trumps view that the Mexicans are causing so much damage in his eyes, but he doesn’t want to know about how much carnage guns cause in the US as they do note millions to him & the GOP. Not to mention they laundered Russian money to give to the GOP for the 2016 election.

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1 minute ago, Nath. said:

Yes you are correct, there are some bad buggers in Mexico. Just like all countries and all races.

 

I'll have to pull you up there-the level of murder and violent crime is far far far worse in many parts of Mexico than most other places due to the nature of the drug trade. You cant dismiss it as 'there are bad people everywhere'. You would not last a week in Juarez without getting killed.

For me I think the argument is very similar to our stopping the boats saga. There were so many people and children dying in boats and whilst the Libs were seen as cruel and heartless by turning them away since they did this the amount of deaths is pretty much zero.

Same with Mexico, the drug cartels asside the amount of rape, death, extortion and other bad things that happen to people trying to get across the border is horrific. Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind..

 

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8 minutes ago, Bored@work said:

Mexico is an awesome holiday destination.

Yep I've been to Cabo and Cancoon....but step outside those places and your chances of the sh!t hitting the fan increase exponentially. 

That being said Los Cabos does have the highest murder rate in the world...lol actually Mexico has 5 of the top 10 highest murder rate cities int he world! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

 

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So I don't like Trump. I think he is devoid of morals and obsessed with himself and has a very casual relationship with the truth. 

But I find this shutdown very interesting. The Wall was one of the key election promises that got him elected. To continue to deny him that wall could be very interesting. The kind of issue that gets people re-elected. 

He looks to be digging in, and if so the tide may turn on the democrats as if they are the "responsible reasonable people" how will they be able to continue to explain crippling the government over a lousy $5 billion. That's big money for Australian state government. Peanuts in the US Federal Government. 

It is also hard to say you want to keep the borders strong (which they do) while at the same time arguing to not build the wall because it is ineffective and immoral. It surely can't be both. Immoral sounds like a working wall.

No one expects Trump to be "reasonable" certainly not his supporters or his enemies. What's he got to lose? 

 

Edited by dazaau

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But you forgot one thing - his promise was that Mexico was going to pay for it, not America!

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All I know is if we shared a border with a country that had the amount of murderers and bad people that Mexico does Id want everything possible done to keep them out.

Try reading up on what happens to many girls that try to get across the border-they get approached by guys in Mexico saying they can smuggle them across for a fee and set them up with a job. They then take them, get them across the border (rapping them along the way in many cases) and then force them into prostitution to repay their debts (which never end) or threaten to turn them over to the immigration department, or threaten to kill their family back home etc...they get forced and stuck in a life of prostitution and violence

Just absolute scum of the scum... :(  protect the border and at least these ar$eholes would be out of work.

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7 minutes ago, goughy said:

But you forgot one thing - his promise was that Mexico was going to pay for it, not America!

Ha - true. But playing semantics with Trump is useless. Details don't stick to him. No one really believed the Mexicans would pay for a wall did they? 😂 

Thinking of the Americans I know they would love a big fat wall I'm sure! 

 

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33 minutes ago, more said:

 

For me I think the argument is very similar to our stopping the boats saga. There were so many people and children dying in boats and whilst the Libs were seen as cruel and heartless by turning them away since they did this the amount of deaths is pretty much zero

 

I have to ask, how do you know it's zero?  Sure, it may be zero in our waters!  But are there any statistics on how many boats themselves are being turned back?  Or are very few boats leaving Indonesian waters for our shores now?

Personally (since we seem to have no evidence or statistics) I don't think people smugglers care one iota whether asylum seekers make it here as long as they pay, so if boats sink in Aussie waters or Indonesian waters after being turned back makes no difference to them.

I read this morning that last year 161000 family units made it across the southern border into the Us last year, and 60000 lone children (twice the number of the year before).  Sure America is bigger than Aus, but makes our "problem" seem small by comparison.  Same as it is compared to so many European countries.  In a way we are blessed by not having a physical border to another country.  It also allows our governments to sell the "invasion" type line.....

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2 minutes ago, goughy said:

 

Personally (since we seem to have no evidence or statistics) I don't think people smugglers care one iota whether asylum seekers make it here as long as they pay, so if boats sink in Aussie waters or Indonesian waters after being turned back makes no difference to them.

The point is no one wants to hand their life worth to someone for 0 chance of making it to Aus. No boats because there is no demand. It's not the people smugglers that need to care to stop the boats.

But this is about a $5.6 billion wall, few things are as effective as an ocean. 

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John Howard was absolutely correct when he said "we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come"

And Trump is absolutely correct when he says essentially the same thing 

The left call both Hitler though, because they think enforced sovereignty equals nationalism, and nationalists are nazis

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So the “humanitarian crisis” at the border will be solved by a wall that will cost way more than the 5 billion he is asking for, AND many years to build.

PLLLLLLLEASE!

One thing to make clear here is that both democrats and republicans agree on the need to secure borders. And for the most part both sides also agree that a WALL is not the solution to it. 

This is no longer an immigration but a credibility issue for Trump and he knows the stakes are very high, particularly with his base. Anything but a win here will make him look weak and I think it’s very likely that he will call a national emergency as he will not get what he’s asked for through Congress. 

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4 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

John Howard was absolutely correct when he said "we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come" 

 

How is he "correct" Iron? Your statement doesn't even make sense, what's correct about it? Thousands have arrived against the government's wishes since Howard said this in 2001

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