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New Rules for NSW cyclists

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Get off bike, walk over and press button to cross main road, walk across main road when lights go green, get back on bike. You'd also be safely behind those 4-5 cars that got through.

 

Exactly, and this is precisely what I tell my 12 y/o son when we go on rides. I make him get off and walk across the road.

 

Mind you, I've never really struck the problem of not triggering pressure pads - I've been known to do a little bunny hop when I get to them and they always seem to work.

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Exactly, and this is precisely what I tell my 12 y/o son when we go on rides. I make him get off and walk across the road.

 

Mind you, I've never really struck the problem of not triggering pressure pads - I've been known to do a little bunny hop when I get to them and they always seem to work.

Interesting that that works, as they aren't pressure pads. They are inductive loops. They work due to an object nearby changing the inductance of the loop.

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Interesting that that works, as they aren't pressure pads. They are inductive loops. They work due to an object nearby changing the inductance of the loop.

 

Maybe it's a placebo but I never have issues not triggering them (or perhaps I'm just highly charged or it's my old metal bike). Given that, I don't see why there would be any reason a cyclist wouldn't trigger it.

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Maybe it's a placebo but I never have issues not triggering them (or perhaps I'm just highly charged or it's my old metal bike). Given that, I don't see why there would be any reason a cyclist wouldn't trigger it.

 

They are definitely not pressure activated. There are various types of induction loops fitted that are trigger by moving metal and there is a variable sensitivity of each design and within each design. Many don't trigger with modern bikes, it's quite a common problem. It may be that on your local routes it's not something you experience, but I know I have at various intersections. I try to report it as sometimes they can adjust the sensitivity.

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If you have metal wheels & can see the cuts in the surface where they laid the coil, position your bike so both wheels are on the coil. That's probably the best way, but on routes where there are a lot of trucks, they wind the sensitivity down on turning lanes so that trucks in the other lanes don't trigger them, so some will always be a problem, especially if you have carbon everything.

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Get off bike, walk over and press button to cross main road, walk across main road when lights go green, get back on bike. You'd also be safely behind those 4-5 cars that got through.

 

Walking not an option for me I'm afraid. And this has happened to me before in many places. I generally check for approaching cars that might trigger it, or if they are scarce I'll ride up to the ped xing button and push it. There are some locations where I simply cannot get to the ped xing buttton though, so the options are limited, especially if you are hoping to turn right on a multilane road. Then you are screwed.

 

The worst was Bestic St when you are in the right hand turn lane. There is no ped crosssing travelling in the same direction on the left side (and is 3 lanes to the left of where you are waiting). I worked out the scenarios. It wasn't possible for me to to cross the intersection legally without waiting for a vehicle to trigger the lights. So shock horror - you use common sense to cross when it's safe to do so. And hope some semi hidden copper isn't sitting waiting to trap you.

 

There was another culprit in Redfern, except this one there was a ped xing button that was reachable on the bike by riding on to pavement (illegally of course), another on City rd near the university (another turn right with no where to go scenario). And others. Some I noticed would be fine, then one day for some reason they aren't. Over time you learn to avoid many with choice of route, but often time of day and day of week traffic flows mean these are still the sensible choice for basic safety.

 

In any case, there are sensible scenarios where a cyclist should be permitted, after stopping, to proceed through a red (e.g. left turn). What that means is the rider has effected a safe turn, they are clear of the intersection and any cars that may have been waiting behind a slow to start cyclist no longer experience the hold up. It sensible, safe and improves traffic flow. It's why such cycling red light laws exist in places like Paris and several US states.

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especially if you have carbon everything.

 

Pfft, I have carbon nothing

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Maybe it's a placebo but I never have issues not triggering them (or perhaps I'm just highly charged or it's my old metal bike). Given that, I don't see why there would be any reason a cyclist wouldn't trigger it.

Induction loops work on electromagnetic principles and thence are triggered by the presence of metals (the presence of metal esp iron reduces the inductance via eddy loops, hence you get detected) - but the issue is, you can only have them detect a certain minimum mass. Bicycles are close to that minimum if they are steel (and even then, most of the time they just aren't large enough to be seen if you arent directly over a loop) there's no way a carbon bike can be picked up. You are especially SOL with carbon wheels, there just not enough steel anywhere to work with the induction loops.

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Induction loops work on electromagnetic principles and thence are triggered by the presence of metals (the presence of metal esp iron reduces the inductance via eddy loops, hence you get detected) - but the issue is, you can only have them detect a certain minimum mass. Bicycles are close to that minimum if they are steel (and even then, most of the time they just aren't large enough to be seen if you arent directly over a loop) there's no way a carbon bike can be picked up. You are especially SOL with carbon wheels, there just not enough steel anywhere to work with the induction loops.

 

A small magnet mounted under the BB will trigger the induction loop. But not an attractive option for some cyclists.

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all of these rules 'for our safety' have made the past few weeks feel undeniably less safe to be riding on the roads. I can't remember a time where I felt so much tension and hatred out there. I've been spat on, I've had cars and just this morning a motorbike swerve out of their CLEAR lane towards me intentionally, (*Gasp* Yes, within 1m!)

 

Honestly beginning to consider options for moving out of NSW and/or internationally given that I am married to a Euro - This city has become so frustrating over the past 15 years and I don't see any common sense prevailing any time soon

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but the issue is, you can only have them detect a certain minimum mass.

 

Are you calling me fat?

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Having an interest in electronics, and cycling, I've been thinking about easy ways to trigger the lights but haven't found any on my routes that my bike (and it is carbon) doesn't trigger. Does anybody know of any in the NW area of Brisbane that don't trigger that I can experiment on?

Thanks

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Having an interest in electronics, and cycling, I've been thinking about easy ways to trigger the lights but haven't found any on my routes that my bike (and it is carbon) doesn't trigger. Does anybody know of any in the NW area of Brisbane that don't trigger that I can experiment on?

Thanks

 

If you come up with something try and get it written into the legislation - you'll make a killing ;)

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Just get off and walk.

 

Well, atleast I suppose Duncan Gay has achieved what he set out to.

 

Where I live, I have limited options in terms of accessing roads due to local road network and terrain (hills, dead-end streets, one way streets and lot of waterways, plus a highway I want to avoid).... so to get from home there are only a couple of routes I can take to get to cycle routes.

 

There are probably 6-8 areas within 2km of my house where I would technically have to break the law to pass through - bike lanes that end abruptly and become a footpath, a cycle path that finishes at the vehicular exit to a carpark where you have to pass through this carpark to get to the cycle lane on the otherside, a small steep section of highway on a blind corner with no shoulder (so I usually jump onto the footpath as its safer and gets my out of the way of fast moving traffic), a pedestrian/bike crossing that has an off-road shared path on one side but only a pedestrian footpath on the other etc.....

 

As well as the lights I mentioned that didn't trigger for old mate yesterday (having said that, I pass through these lights a couple of times a week and I've always managed to trigger them .... but they have recently done road-resurfacing work so could they have stuffed them up? made them deeper or something ...)

 

I usually do a mixture of using the footpath, riding up the footpath to hit the pedestrian button, and I mostly go in the carpark the wrong way via the one way traffic lane.

 

All these things seem a bit risky now - not risky because they feel unsafe, but risky because of increased fines .... so to stick to the letter of the law for the first 2kms of every ride I have to accept either getting off my bike half a dozen times so as not to break the law...or putting myself in very dangerous situations.

 

Is that really what we've got to?

 

I guess the new laws are reducing the chances of me being knocked off my bike, when I'll be spending so much time walking alongside it ....

Edited by TryTriB4Forty

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A small magnet mounted under the BB will trigger the induction loop. But not an attractive option for some cyclists.

 

Still need to place the bike in the right position for it to work though, so might need a bit of moving the bike forwards / backwards / sideways.

 

Some intersections have the same problems for motorbikes, I used to commute past one intersection where giving the starter motor a turn used to trigger the sequence

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Saw a photo of the 'first' guy to get booked for no helmet yesterday in Sydney. In business clothes, just picked up his bike that had been in for service, riding 1.6km back home. Bugger.

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AA7. I understand the frustration however....... If you just picked up your car and had to drive the same distance home without a seatbelt, you would expect a fine if caught. To me there is not too much difference - a safety law.

 

FM

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I just walked past a police car (in a no stopping zone @ Castlereagh and Hunter) booking a rider with no helmet that I could see. Far call on the booking, not sure it warranted parking where he did.

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all of these rules 'for our safety' have made the past few weeks feel undeniably less safe to be riding on the roads. I can't remember a time where I felt so much tension and hatred out there. I've been spat on, I've had cars and just this morning a motorbike swerve out of their CLEAR lane towards me intentionally, (*Gasp* Yes, within 1m!)

 

Honestly beginning to consider options for moving out of NSW and/or internationally given that I am married to a Euro - This city has become so frustrating over the past 15 years and I don't see any common sense prevailing any time soon

 

When I venture down there and observe cyclists, to me it looks like cycling on most roads in Sydney is like swimming a km offshore at Cottesloe within a suit made of bleeding seal carcasses.

 

Mind you, I cycled with a friend down Hoggbin Drive in Coffs peak hour once and I'm still traumatised by that episode

Edited by ComfortablyNumb
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Errrrr. ... I get all the commentary on induction loops etc but wouldn't it just be easier to move forward 3 feet then care can move up and trigger the lights.

Obviously you'd be a law breaking maniac cyclist for moving onto pedestrian crossing, but courtesy extended to drivers behind would be noticed and assist "the cause".

 

Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk

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wouldn't it just be easier to move forward 3 feet then care can move up and trigger the lights.

 

Yeah, that usually works, until you get a (rare) gun shy motorist who doesn't want to get too close.

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Errrrr. ... I get all the commentary on induction loops etc but wouldn't it just be easier to move forward 3 feet then care can move up and trigger the lights.

Obviously you'd be a law breaking maniac cyclist for moving onto pedestrian crossing, but courtesy extended to drivers behind would be noticed and assist "the cause".

Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk

I wonder how many car drivers would realise that though? (That the bike isnt triggering the lights). Unless ur a bike rider that has had that experience, id say probably not

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I wonder how many car drivers would realise that though? (That the bike isnt triggering the lights). Unless ur a bike rider that has had that experience, id say probably not

The car drivers that want us off the road appear to know everything, so you assume they know. :lol:

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Have any of the haters set up a lobby group re banning bells and reflectors ? Whilst those are old laws, if the jacks are going to enforce them in burbs, probably should get them removed.

 

TriNSW ? Cycling NSW ? Bicycle NSW ? Anyone of those peak groups doing anything to change the law as opposed to complaining over the equity of penalties.

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Errrrr. ... I get all the commentary on induction loops etc but wouldn't it just be easier to move forward 3 feet then care can move up and trigger the lights.

Obviously you'd be a law breaking maniac cyclist for moving onto pedestrian crossing, but courtesy extended to drivers behind would be noticed and assist "the cause".

 

Sent from my GT-I9507 using Tapatalk

 

 

A lot of junctions in the UK have 'bike boxes' at the front (and to the side), gives the bikes a head start and allows cars to right to the line. Seems to work ok.

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A lot of junctions in the UK have 'bike boxes' at the front (and to the side), gives the bikes a head start and allows cars to right to the line. Seems to work ok.

Yes, a lot of intersections in NSW with a red light, it is legal to turn left once stopped at the red. Woronora Rd and the Princes Highway at Engadine is one such example. Some of the most progressive laws in the world, I think cities like Paris have recently followed what has been in place in NSW for years.

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Yes, a lot of intersections in NSW with a red light, it is legal to turn left once stopped at the red. Woronora Rd and the Princes Highway at Engadine is one such example. Some of the most progressive laws in the world, I think cities like Paris have recently followed what has been in place in NSW for years.

 

:lol:

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Yes, a lot of intersections in NSW with a red light, it is legal to turn left once stopped at the red. Woronora Rd and the Princes Highway at Engadine is one such example. Some of the most progressive laws in the world, I think cities like Paris have recently followed what has been in place in NSW for years.

Gottem in SA and Vic too. Farm towns to big cities.

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Have any of the haters set up a lobby group re banning bells and reflectors ? Whilst those are old laws, if the jacks are going to enforce them in burbs, probably should get them removed.

 

TriNSW ? Cycling NSW ? Bicycle NSW ? Anyone of those peak groups doing anything to change the law as opposed to complaining over the equity of penalties.

 

CNSW agreed to the legislation. It was an appalling sell out decision and I made my displeasure known to them. I cannot believe the Board approved it. BNSW were involved in discussions with the government in the lead up as well but they clearly missed something along the way and have seemingly been actively lobbying against much of it ever since it was announced. I've no idea about TriNSW

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Errrrr. ... I get all the commentary on induction loops etc but wouldn't it just be easier to move forward 3 feet then care can move up and trigger the lights.

 

I used to do this often, but my experience was many drivers were reluctant to creep forward, even when motioned to do so. On roads I used to regularly ride, I'd say there were about a dozen to 15 sets of lights that would never trigger. I'd report them but it never seemed to make much difference.

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On roads I used to regularly ride, I'd say there were about a dozen to 15 sets of lights that would never trigger. I'd report them but it never seemed to make much difference.

I can't even comprehend that. I used to do a regular 100km ride finishing in the CBD. There was not a single light on that route that didn't trigger. Somebody brought 1 to my attention on this forum that was on my route, but a turn lane I didn't use, I reported it and it was fixed a week later. Maybe it's the area you ride?

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AA7. I understand the frustration however....... If you just picked up your car and had to drive the same distance home without a seatbelt, you would expect a fine if caught. To me there is not too much difference - a safety law.

 

FM

I wasn't complaining, just noting the story I saw.

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Still need to place the bike in the right position for it to work though, so might need a bit of moving the bike forwards / backwards / sideways.

 

Some intersections have the same problems for motorbikes, I used to commute past one intersection where giving the starter motor a turn used to trigger the sequence

Yeah. Quite often my Postie bike doesn't set off the lights and I get honked at. I just sit at the lights until a car triggers the other side. It is scary how angry drivers get because the postie is not setting off the lights. I try to avoid those intersections now. Look for smaller roads with no traffic lights. Not always an option though.

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CNSW agreed to the legislation. It was an appalling sell out decision and I made my displeasure known to them. I cannot believe the Board approved it. BNSW were involved in discussions with the government in the lead up as well but they clearly missed something along the way and have seemingly been actively lobbying against much of it ever since it was announced. I've no idea about TriNSW

 

I'm convinced the boards of the "peak" cycling groups don't actually ride bikes, or at least not on the roads most cyclists actually are on. Especially after finding out said groups approved the present M2 cycling diversion.... which by any measure has roads in it no sane cyclist would want to use. They could not possibly be active riders.

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I can't even comprehend that. I used to do a regular 100km ride finishing in the CBD. There was not a single light on that route that didn't trigger. Somebody brought 1 to my attention on this forum that was on my route, but a turn lane I didn't use, I reported it and it was fixed a week later. Maybe it's the area you ride?

 

Well I'm not riding any more at present, so that was my experience from some years ago, perhaps they are better now. My point was that it is and can be a real issue in some places.

 

The roads here have simply become too hostile. For me at least. It got to the point that not a ride would go by without my life being threatened at least once by the deliberate or inadvertent action of a motor vehicle driver, despite seeking out the best routes and time of day to avoid such situations as much as possible. Ironically it was my choice of using a bikeway than the normal road route that resulted in my accident and leg amputation in 2007. I think it was only the absolutely burning desire to not let that stop me from riding/racing that saw me through to end of season 2010/11.

 

Call it cumulative trauma fatigue. I hit a breaking point after then when my strong desire to ride/train a lot and be fit and race no longer outweighed the crap we put up with in this environment. And what makes it worse is that when you are not fit, it gets more dangerous.

 

The only occasional ride I do now is in the safe haven of Centennial Park, which has been the location of a multiple police blitzes of late, because you know cyclists are a massive threat to society in there, those guys without bells on their bikes who dare ride on the road, they need to be dealt with. The city has lost the plot.

 

I'm moving away from Sydney and won't have traffic lights or many angry idiots to deal with where I'm going.

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I'm convinced the boards of the "peak" cycling groups don't actually ride bikes, or at least not on the roads most cyclists actually are on. Especially after finding out said groups approved the present M2 cycling diversion.... which by any measure has roads in it no sane cyclist would want to use. They could not possibly be active riders.

I'm guessing your referring to the temporary detour route that was required due to all the road works being done to widen the M2 a couple of years ago?

 

The cycle groups complained that it would take them additional time to ride (rather ironic that argument). Complaints of dangerous conditions etc.

 

I rode that route plenty of times and like any bike path, road crossing, narrow portion etc. you ride to conditions. When that was done it was not dangerous at all (but it did take longer than straight down the M2). If you want to ride a footpath at 30-40km/h, well........ you know what's going to happen!

 

Again that was a temporary mountain made from a temporary mole hill.

 

To have stayed on the M2 whilst that work was being done would have been a complete death trap.

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I'm guessing your referring to the temporary detour route that was required due to all the road works being done to widen the M2 a couple of years ago?

 

The cycle groups complained that it would take them additional time to ride (rather ironic that argument). Complaints of dangerous conditions etc.

 

I rode that route plenty of times and like any bike path, road crossing, narrow portion etc. you ride to conditions. When that was done it was not dangerous at all (but it did take longer than straight down the M2). If you want to ride a footpath at 30-40km/h, well........ you know what's going to happen!

 

Again that was a temporary mountain made from a temporary mole hill.

 

To have stayed on the M2 whilst that work was being done would have been a complete death trap.

 

No, it is the current diversion that has just started between Pennant Hills Road and Windsor Road. That funnels bikes onto North Rocks Road, where you have to swing in and out of parked cars and risk being doored at high speed unless you are fast enough to hold your own in 60kph traffic. The longer distance is not a problem. The issue is the utter stupidity of a alt route that will get someone hurt or killed - clearly no one who rides tested this route.

 

It's unsafe and badly thought out - when the so called "dangerous" rejected by cycling lobbyist route has been discovered to actually be considerably safer, albeit with a 22% short climb. Some work on Renown would have made for a very good alt to the M2 with no issues of getting your face smashed in by a door or trying to cut in and out of faster traffic. I've also found three other routes - longer but also considerably safer to say the least.

 

If I dont feel like tackling Renown, I have enough legit concerns about the official route that I deliberately detour ANOTHER 3km to avoid it.

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No, it is the current diversion that has just started between Pennant Hills Road and Windsor Road. That funnels bikes onto North Rocks Road,

Haven't seen that detour. Doesn't sound to hot.

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I just tried to put a bell on Mrs T's roadie. The handlebars are too thick for the bracket to fit. If asked, she's just going to say 'ding ding' very loudly....or I'll break out the gaffa tape or something.

 

However her MTB now has a beaut old bell taken off our daughters old bike :sleepy:

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I just tried to put a bell on Mrs T's roadie. The handlebars are too thick for the bracket to fit. If asked, she's just going to say 'ding ding' very loudly....or I'll break out the gaffa tape or something.

Â

However her MTB now has a beaut old bell taken off our daughters old bike :sleepy:

Mount it under the seat.

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Hey Dunc,

 

Nice to know that you are being seen as the stupid turd you are in other parts of the world

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/australia-newzealand/article4702991.ece?shareToken=1298fee7486458ef42efe861bdd2e234

Only a little bit of journalistic licence with the truth. :)

Edited by Ex-Hasbeen

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Having an interest in electronics, and cycling, I've been thinking about easy ways to trigger the lights but haven't found any on my routes that my bike (and it is carbon) doesn't trigger. Does anybody know of any in the NW area of Brisbane that don't trigger that I can experiment on?

Thanks

Couldn't get the lights to change in the turning lane from south pine road into Griffith street at Everton Park. Had to get off and walk through two pedestrian crossings to start riding again

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Ummm. Why is it in the cycle lane ... ??

(Am I being too old and cranky again?? )

Edited by Mjainoz

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Except any cyclist would have to move into the traffic lane to avoid the sign.

 

Some arent so smart eh?

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I've not riden at home since the laws came in. When I do, I'll need to comply whether I like it or not.

 

Here in the UAE, the extent of cycling tracks has continued to increase and given the speed at which people drive on the road, more people are using them.

 

When I say cycling tracks, I mean proper tracks. They are generally used by serious cyclists who no longer want to take the chance riding on the road and can do safe, beneficial sessions on the track.

 

There is Al Qudra in Dubai and Al Wathba here in Abu Dhabi. Al Wathba has an 8k, 16k, 20k, 22k and 30k loop. All with 2 lanes around 3m wide, lines marked and with the 8k and 16k fully lit. Coffee and bike shops and toilet block with hot showers.

 

Initially I was hesitant as my mindset was " why drive 45 mins to ride?" After using the facilities a few times my attitude has changed. Sessions are stress free and no worrying about cars with drivers texting, trucks and buses running you down. No stopping at lights.

Drive out, ride, shower and coffee, drive home....simple.

 

My point...well, Australia is a big country. I'm sure there is enough space within an hours drive from most major cities where governments could build something similar for cyclists to use. Even if you had to pay $10.

Am I dreaming or are there just no votes in it?

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