Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
FatPom

SRAM etap (again)

Recommended Posts

I have the unenviable position of not being able to do much but stare at my bike and click various 'buy' items on the net right now.

 

I'm not totally in love with how my bike looks and I've chased some cable rattles down over the months, mostly fixed but not quite. I was pondering a move to electronic and rang my old (not very local) LBS today to enquire about EPS upgrade (I run 2015 Chorus).

 

Surprisingly they said that they don't really recommend EPS any more. This in itself is not surprising as many shops simply are clueless about Campag but this particular shop probably sells more high end bikes shod with Campag, mechanical and EPS than any other shop in the country, located in a seriously cashed up area ( Hampton Wick nr London), so i was really surprised. They said they've had too many return issues and lose money on just about every set due to workshop/ warranty admin time.

 

That aside, they were in high praise of Di2 (both levels) and said they rarely get a return. But I can't shake this feeling if (big if) I went 'leccy' then the clean looking lines of Etap really appeal.

 

Main drawbacks for me though:

 

I'd need a complete group set £2059, eek!

 

Would need to wait until Feb, no big deal as I won't be riding until Jan at the earliest and then it wouldnt be on my summer bike.

 

First generation guinea pig.

 

SRAM don't have a great track record lately.

 

Roxii just sent me a lovely Campag jacket :shy:

 

I don't think I'd seriously consider it but the floor is yours......

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buy di2

 

 

Please lock thread mods and ban FP if he creates another thread about campag and how subconsciously he admits it is no longer gold standard.... He is still in denial by thinking everyone must be wrong.

 

Signed Steno: owner of di2, sram and campag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buy di2

 

 

Please lock thread mods and ban FP if he creates another thread about campag and how subconsciously he admits it is no longer gold standard.... He is still in denial by thinking everyone must be wrong.

 

Signed Steno: owner of di2, sram and campag

 

 

Mechanical, there is no contest for me, Campag is and always will be my go to choice. If I stay mechanical there is no discussion from my end. But this about uncharted territory for me, the fishing mfr with wires or the wireless failed hydraulic fellas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you go mechanical...

 

Ok... I will help with the answer you already know:

 

Don't get first gen anything group set wise - I learnt this with di2 and sram red. I suspect you will learn this with eTap.

 

Di2 is now proven and unbelievably good. Ult in my opinion is just as good as DA - I have had both.

 

Only issue I have had is the battery failing. New battery and all good again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Steno. I was a very early adopter of Campag 11sp years ago and an early adopter of 4 arm spider Campag but it's definitely not something i do usually .

 

Stuffing all the crap into the seat post and working out where to put the junction box and battery would take some working out. Heard good things about the brakes on DA.

 

I'm wasn't surprised to hear a shop trashing EPS but I was very very surprised to hear that particular shop recommending Di2 over EPS. I doubt there is a higher end shop doing as much volume as these guys, so it was a message worth listening to.

 

I could probably live with Ult D12, couldn't live with that crank though and wouldn't suit the colour of my bike but that's easy fixed. Merlin knocking out some deals at the moment.

 

Did think about eTap but reckon I'd miss the ability to dump multiple gears, which I think Di2 can be programmed to do? and there's the whole guinea pig thing.

Edited by FatPom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultegra levers and mechs. Da brakes and cranks. I can't pick the difference between electronic ultegra and dira ace but I can in the brakes and cranks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take that ugly front derailleur and cabling and deposit in bin. Replace front chain ring with narrow/wide variant.

 

Your bike is now cleaner, lighter and better looking than anything with di2 out there.

 

Now you only need the rear derailleur etc.. yes, that's right, not only are you super cool but it's cheaper too.

 

1x or die.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a review on EPS V2 which deems it comparable to Di2.

 

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/06/campagnolo-record-eps-v2-0-review/

 

As always, it comes down to aesthetics so go with what looks better and is within your budget.

 

I personally like the simplicity of Shimano and the ability to source parts anywhere and anytime if required.

 

The Campy (Record) stuff looks slightly better with the carbon touches but not enough to make me want to spend an extra $1.5K on top of what Dura Ace would cost.

 

Having said that the Athena EPS is pretty reasonably priced and somewhat comparable to Ultegra Di2 so that's a reasonable option as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also a lot of the bad wrap given to EPS is because of the (internal) battery charging which requires you to drill a hole on your frame!!!

Looks like V3 will eliminate that issue but release date is still unknown.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait till version 2 off the Etap.

 

Iron out the problems.

 

Just curious, what problems do you assume there will be?

 

SRAM had been working on eTap for years before we all even knew about it, and the best pros in the business have been riding it all year to multiple world titles. Pretty sure whatever problems there would have been would be sorted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Serious question: Who are the best pros in the world who have ridden it to multiple world titles?

 

I have a fear due to the dodgy hydros and dodgy front derail of previous first gen release.

Edited by Steno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah right!! Just because it's been reported to be used by pros it doesn't mean it will work for the masses. In fact that is when the true test happens, a large number of people in uncontrolled environments as opposed to have a full time mechanic setting it all up for you and making sure nothing goes wrong, and when it does, that we don't hear about it.

 

I'd never buy eTap gen 1 - there are at least 4 points of failure in the wireless setup - rear and front derailleur, L/R shifters, battery. Then you need software and hardware to work together along with wireless signal transmission, there's a lot happening there and it is probably the reason you haven't seen this released to the public yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SRAM lost me. First was the ratchet in the brifter sheared which from the internet is a reasonably common design fault. It was after 4 years which is out of the 2 year warranty period, but it happens so frequently I would suggest that its a design fault. SRAM said not our problem. I've never had Shimano or Campag fail. So that is $3 or $4 hundred for new levers every 4 years you should budget for that. Then I took the chainrings off and the metal making up the bolt holes of the chain spider was cracked.Once again, I've never had that fail in Campag or Shimano. So either the quality or design is not up to the other 2 and its not much cheaper either

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Serious question: Who are the best pros in the world who have ridden it to multiple world titles?

 

I have a fear due to the dodgy hydros and dodgy front derail of previous first gen release.

 

Jan Frodeno raced on it this year 5 times and won 5 times, including 70.3 & 140.6 World titles.

 

Sebastian Kienle, Luke McKenzie & Mirinda Carfrae (& others) all raced Kona and a multitude of other races on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as opposed to have a full time mechanic setting it all up for you and making sure nothing goes wrong, and when it does, that we don't hear about it.

 

 

...I don't know what planet you're on, no pro triathlete ever has had a full-time mechanic.

 

I understand the technology has yet to be proven in a broader audience other than SRAM sponsored athletes & teams. But because it has not been made available yet, this is the only gauge we have to go by, which is why I made the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

...I don't know what planet you're on, no pro triathlete ever has had a full-time mechanic.

 

I understand the technology has yet to be proven in a broader audience other than SRAM sponsored athletes & teams. But because it has not been made available yet, this is the only gauge we have to go by, which is why I made the point.

Yeah fair point and to be honest I'd love to be proven wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take that ugly front derailleur and cabling and deposit in bin. Replace front chain ring with narrow/wide variant.

 

Your bike is now cleaner, lighter and better looking than anything with di2 out there.

 

Now you only need the rear derailleur etc.. yes, that's right, not only are you super cool but it's cheaper too.

 

1x or die.

 

I just got my 1x groupo but don't have it built on my IA yet. Out of interest, what size chain ring & cassette are you using, and generally speaking what kind of rides are you doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just curious, what problems do you assume there will be?

 

SRAM had been working on eTap for years before we all even knew about it, and the best pros in the business have been riding it all year to multiple world titles. Pretty sure whatever problems there would have been would be sorted.

Noosa Tri, demo @ Etap booth was disappointing. Took the battery of and couldn't click it back in. The Chain fell of twice whilst front chainring shifting when he was talking about it. And there wasn't any load on it apart from hand peddling.

 

I'm pretty sure that every Triathlete on Etap at the moment is on single front chainring. Mustn't be very good on Chain ring shifting!?!

 

Also, they win on SRAM Mech to.

 

Top 3 In 2014 WC were on SRAM

 

Im guessing there working on DI3 as well...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry had my head in roadie space for world champs as pretty sure that is the setup FP would be looking at...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And welcome to Trannies Josh.

 

Yes, welcome aboard mate.

 

Hope the stubby holder got put to good use on the weekend. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And welcome to Trannies Josh.

 

Yeehaa. Forum-play keeps the mind sharp; always questioning and always speculating. At the least, it reminds me that I can always spend more time training haha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'm pretty sure that every Triathlete on Etap at the moment is on single front chainring. Mustn't be very good on Chain ring shifting!?!

 

 

 

Untrue. eTap is not yet compatible with 1x.

 

I can't say anything for the Noosa tri expo as I didn't go inside. What I can say is that from when I played with eTap for the first time 18months ago, the ease of the battery removal/replacement was a definite +.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yes, welcome aboard mate.

 

Hope the stubby holder got put to good use on the weekend. :lol:

 

Thanks Roxii. I threw the tinnies down too fast to even need a stubby holder. Next time definitely!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thanks Roxii. I threw the tinnies down too fast to even need a stubby holder. Next time definitely!

 

:lol: I saw a video of you skulling a beer mid run, well done, so you can run AND drink quicker than most.

 

Hey feel free to put some more of your sponsors logos and stuff on your posts if you like, if it works for you and them, Foxy is on here and does this with his.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also a lot of the bad wrap given to EPS is because of the (internal) battery charging which requires you to drill a hole on your frame!!!

Looks like V3 will eliminate that issue but release date is still unknown.

I wouldn't actually need to do that Rog. My bike has the external battery mount holes on the underside of the down tube, so I could utilise one of those for the charging port just like the guy in your link did. Great link btw as I hadn't thought of that!

 

 

 

Sorry had my head in roadie space for world champs as pretty sure that is the setup FP would be looking at...

Sorry for the confusion, yes looking at a road set up, a Bianchi Infinito CV running 2015 Chorus mech right now. Edited by FatPom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SRAM is crap

End of thread

 

Di2 is amazing and just works , if you set it up with a little thought you can pretty much elimate any wires exposed

There are frames and bars that u can buy now that will have internal spots for junction box and wires

 

Wireless is just not needed, why would u risk buying a first gen product that is on a high risk platform from a company that has a shocking record and producing anything decent

 

Just go di2

Cheers

Ivp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Wireless is just not needed, why would u risk buying a first gen product

 

 

It would be interesting to read back on people's attitudes when Di2 was released in 2009, maybe there was a similar poisonous apathy towards innovation. Something like...

 

"Why do we need electronic when mechanical works" or "Di2 is going to fail, wait until 2nd gen".

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep and I purchased di2 in 2009 - I would wait for second gen.

 

2nd gen is much nicer - internal battery, 2 core wires that can go in frame and don't have shitty connections, easier to size cables and individual to replace and generally better aesthetics. I would wait if I had my time again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SRAM is crap

End of thread

Di2 is amazing and just works , if you set it up with a little thought you can pretty much elimate any wires exposed

There are frames and bars that u can buy now that will have internal spots for junction box and wires

Wireless is just not needed, why would u risk buying a first gen product that is on a high risk platform from a company that has a shocking record and producing anything decent

Just go di2

Cheers

Ivp

Seems to me everything you don't ride is crap.

 

There were a fair few Di2 failures causing havoc in the rain at Cairns a couple of years back. If you look hard enough you can find fault with anything, early adopters always take a risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems to me everything you don't ride is crap.

There were a fair few Di2 failures causing havoc in the rain at Cairns a couple of years back. If you look hard enough you can find fault with anything, early adopters always take a risk.

Yep

Your right that's why I don't ride it

Seems to make sense to me :-)

 

But it doesn't mean I havnt tryed it

My XX1 I run on my fatbike has been faultless but is very noisy even with a shimano chain ,and it chews the crap out of the front single chain ring

 

It's got Nuffin on my new 11speed DA xtr on my new dually . This is an amazing groupo

 

The dramas with di2 at cairns and other places in the rain , have all come from faulty installs due to the cable joins/plugs not being covered with the srink wrap as supposed to be done or not at all

 

Cheers

Ivp

 

Ps your right about anyone is taking a risk with any new product but SRAMs record is pretty average with most things from mtb brakes to top end road group sets so why would the OP risk the mega $$$$$$ right now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to read back on people's attitudes when Di2 was released in 2009, maybe there was a similar poisonous apathy towards innovation. Something like...

 

"Why do we need electronic when mechanical works" or "Di2 is going to fail, wait until 2nd gen".

That's was me

I said exactly that and admit it to everyone that's thinking about going electronic , but once i I tryed it , that was it

I bought a TT groupo for Rosie as it much safer for her to be changing gears on the hoods when she first got a TT bike

I plugged it all in and the next day bought anther groupo for my TT

It just works and , works so well

Cheers

Ivp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ohhh to have money just lying around.

I got both TT set ups in 10 speed Di 2 for under $1k each

Pretty good value as I sold the crap SRAM red groupo of Rosie's bike got $700 and my dura ace for $800 so not much for change over :-)

Cheers

Ivp

 

Edit to add

We both now run 11 speed di2

Edited by ironpo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got both TT set ups in 10 speed Di 2 for under $1k each

Pretty good value as I sold the crap SRAM red groupo of Rosie's bike got $700 and my dura ace for $800 so not much for change over :-)

Cheers

Ivp

 

Edit to add

We both now run 11 speed di2

Tell me, are your bike times better on DI2 then Mech?

 

:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tell me, are your bike times better on DI2 then Mech?

:P

Yep

Seriously

Rosie would have crashed on her TT with out the buttons on the hoods , so that's gotta be faster

You change gears more as its so easy fast and faultless

So that's gotta be faster , or better for your legs

 

During ultra man I literally spent multiple times of over ten minutes or more standing out of the saddle up the hills due to fatigue and the Ffnn hills , so being able to change gears while out of the saddle is irreplaceable for me as that's the way I ride

So that's gotta be faster

:-)

Cheers

Ivp

Edited by ironpo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally in the mechanical battle I prefer Srams yaw fd for racing crits on the roadie & the return to centre shifters for hand position on my TT. Doesn't mean 6800/9000 is junk, just means I don't like trimming a derailleur anymore & prefer to rest my hands on top of the shifters.

 

Obviously the two versions of Di2 dominate that market now but in 6 months time that might not be the case. Now that all the big brands are going all out on aero roadies not having to hide cables is a massive plus.

 

& last week IP you were bagging the Shiv compared to your BMC, but perhaps the vertical dropouts, non integrated brakes & greater tyre clearance on a Shiv may have avoided your wheel scrubbing last Saturday & saved you some time in the long run.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

& last week IP you were bagging the Shiv compared to your BMC, but perhaps the vertical dropouts, non integrated brakes & greater tyre clearance on a Shiv may have avoided your wheel scrubbing last Saturday & saved you some time in the long run.

I'm really not sure what your agro is towards me so I'll leave this the last post from me in this thread

The tyre rub had nothing to do with the BMC

It was due to the GP 4000 getting a serious bulge in the tyre due to the heat on day 1 so it rubbed on the frame

Nuffin to do with the frame or the little tiwanians that made it

 

I also rode past a couple of people riding shivs probably , while the tyre was rubbing but I'm pretty sure the reason I was passing these people also had Nuffin to do with my BMC

Cheers

Ivp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep

Your right that's why I don't ride it

Seems to make sense to me :-)

 

But it doesn't mean I havnt tryed it

My XX1 I run on my fatbike has been faultless but is very noisy even with a shimano chain ,and it chews the crap out of the front single chain ring

 

It's got Nuffin on my new 11speed DA xtr on my new dually . This is an amazing groupo

 

The dramas with di2 at cairns and other places in the rain , have all come from faulty installs due to the cable joins/plugs not being covered with the srink wrap as supposed to be done or not at all

 

Cheers

Ivp

 

Ps your right about anyone is taking a risk with any new product but SRAMs record is pretty average with most things from mtb brakes to top end road group sets so why would the OP risk the mega $$$$$$ right now

I'm betting your XX1 is noisy generally in the 10 tooth. This is normal because of how inefficient (do some research the 10 tooth cogs are really inefficient) the 10 tooth is. The generally accepted tuning for XX1 one is not to tune for the 10, but the rest of the cluster and the system runs great. You just have to put up with some noise in the 10. I'm a Shimano guy, but have run XX1 since it came out and to be honest until the new di2 XTR Shimano just haven't been up to speed in the mountain bike world for running gear. I would like to run di2 XTR 1 x with a SRAM cassette but I bet the noise will still be there in the 10.

 

Brakes on the other hand SRAM have just NEVER had it right, even the new SRAM guide doesn't measure up to Shimano.

 

generally Shimano are a much more finished product.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marketing started so looks like we are about to get hit with stock.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...