USA shootings and gun laws

[Ex-Hasbeen 6,899]

1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

I would have thought that "how could three lives have been saved" would be a pretty good question...

How could four have been saved?????

[Peter 3,028]

Parkie I don't know why you bother.  He is a total ****wit.  Put the dickhead on block.  

This is all I see now.  I do know that he is still being a total ****wit, I just don't need to read it.

 

[IronJimbo 866]

3 hours ago, Parkside said:

So it's a yes from you then? You advocate teachers being armed to engage active shooters? State your position in as many words as you like if you can't be succinct.

For the record I say "NO"

 

As I said before, I am supportive of teachers being armed if they choose to be and are proficient 

That's because an armed teacher is far more likely to be able to stop a shooter than an unarmed teacher 

[IronJimbo 866]

3 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

How could four have been saved?????

By the shooter's father not being criminally negligent, as I said

[Parkside 1,052]

An armed teachers’ gun can be used to kill many more innocent people than an unarmed teachers’ whiteboard eraser. More guns = more gun deaths would seem to be the statistic that jumps out at anybody not drinking NRA koolaid. 

From what I’ve read the “John Q Public marksman taking down active mass shooter” theory is a furphy. 

I’m just not clear where it stops. Arm the teachers, nurses, doctors, movie ushers, bus drivers, heck let’s arm the entire public service. No nut bars in any of those profession. Dagnabit, forgot the postal workers, load them up as well. America will never be a safer place not to visit.

[roxii 6,042]

Its the "old lady who swallowed a fly" theory Parky. 

I didn't get to the end of that book but I'm sure it ends well.   

[IronJimbo 866]

7 hours ago, Parkside said:

An armed teachers’ gun can be used to kill many more innocent people than an unarmed teachers’ whiteboard eraser. More guns = more gun deaths would seem to be the statistic that jumps out at anybody not drinking NRA koolaid. 

From what I’ve read the “John Q Public marksman taking down active mass shooter” theory is a furphy. 

I’m just not clear where it stops. Arm the teachers, nurses, doctors, movie ushers, bus drivers, heck let’s arm the entire public service. No nut bars in any of those profession. Dagnabit, forgot the postal workers, load them up as well. America will never be a safer place not to visit.

I don't think a teacher throwing a whiteboard eraser would stop a shooter as effectively as a teacher with a handgun parky.  It would be marginally more effective than an unarmed teacher though,  I'll give you that

There have been several recent examples of citizens stopping shooters, but if you have evidence that these situations are 'furphies' I'd be curious to see it

[roxii 6,042]

4 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

I don't think a teacher throwing a whiteboard eraser would stop a shooter as effectively as a teacher with a handgun parky.

You obviously never went to a Marist Brothers School    

[IronJimbo 866]

In other news, nine people are dead after a nutjob ran over them with a van in Toronto a coiole of days ago.   Imagine my surprise that it wasn't as interesting as the waffle house despite more than twice as many people being killed

Should we ban all vans or just automatic ones?

Does the Canadian Automobile Association have blood on its hands?

[monkie 1,082]

17 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

Indeed

It's not hard to imagine at least two of the four victims being saved if he had also been armed

Lol. Do you know if this guy can even shoot?

[IronJimbo 866]

22 minutes ago, monkie said:

Lol. Do you know if this guy can even shoot?

No

But feel free to pretend that gun owners have no idea how to use guns if you think it supports whatever point you're trying to make

[asmithaxe 17]

52 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

In other news, nine people are dead after a nutjob ran over them with a van in Toronto a coiole of days ago.   Imagine my surprise that it wasn't as interesting as the waffle house despite more than twice as many people being killed

Should we ban all vans or just automatic ones?

Does the Canadian Automobile Association have blood on its hands?

You are disgusting.

[IronJimbo 866]

6 minutes ago, asmithaxe said:

You are disgusting.

You appear to want to disagree, but are unable to formulate an argument

[roxii 6,042]

39 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

No

But feel free to pretend that gun owners have no idea how to use guns if you think it supports whatever point you're trying to make

Yes lets play pretendies

2 accidental shootings at US schools, one by armed teacher, the other by resource officer

http://abcnews.go.com/US/accidental-shootings-us-schools-armed-teacher-resource-officer/story?id=53737703

 

and

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

These deaths consisted of 11,208 homicides, 21,175 suicides, 505 deaths due to accidental or negligent discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms use with "undetermined intent". Of the 2,596,993 total deaths in the US in 2013, 1.3% were related to firearms.

 

[Peter 3,028]

1 hour ago, asmithaxe said:

You are disgusting.

No he isn't.  He has a mental illness. I'm not joking.  I honestly think he needs professional help.

[IronJimbo 866]

47 minutes ago, roxii said:

Yes lets play pretendies

2 accidental shootings at US schools, one by armed teacher, the other by resource officer

http://abcnews.go.com/US/accidental-shootings-us-schools-armed-teacher-resource-officer/story?id=53737703

 

and

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

These deaths consisted of 11,208 homicides, 21,175 suicides, 505 deaths due to accidental or negligent discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms use with "undetermined intent". Of the 2,596,993 total deaths in the US in 2013, 1.3% were related to firearms.

 

I did note proficiency as a condition Roxii

How many of those 1.5% of gun deaths happened in schools?  Just the two?

Edited April 27, 2018 by IronJimbo

[roxii 6,042]

I don t know mate, just 2 seconds on google. 

About the same amount of time it takes to unload a semi automatic into a bunch of kids. 

[IronJimbo 866]

Of course in an ideal world countermeasures like this wouldn't be necessary.  I'm still yet to hear a realistic alternative suggestion though

[roxii 6,042]

They have gone beyond a simple quick fix, but adding more guns to the mix is just heading in the wrong direction.

The old saying is "where there is a will there is a way"  and thats what it needs, the will of the people,  which I dont think is possible under the current political climate as the people are too divided about too many things. 

[Ex-Hasbeen 6,899]

46 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

I did note proficiency as a condition Roxii

 

The teacher that accidentally shot & injured 3 students was giving them a gun safety class. He serves as a reserve police officer with the local force. Let's hope in future they use "proficiency" as one of their conditions when they select people to teach gun safety, or enforce the law?

Edited April 27, 2018 by Ex-Hasbeen

[Cottoneyes 1,256]

I finally figured out who Iron Jimbo is

[IronJimbo 866]

3 hours ago, roxii said:

They have gone beyond a simple quick fix, but adding more guns to the mix is just heading in the wrong direction.

The old saying is "where there is a will there is a way"  and thats what it needs, the will of the people,  which I dont think is possible under the current political climate as the people are too divided about too many things. 

Politics certainly does get in the way, that's for sure

 

 

[IronJimbo 866]

3 hours ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

The teacher that accidentally shot & injured 3 students was giving them a gun safety class. He serves as a reserve police officer with the local force. Let's hope in future they use "proficiency" as one of their conditions when they select people to teach gun safety, or enforce the law?

Do you think this sort of situation would be the norm or the exception?

[IronJimbo 866]

3 hours ago, Cottoneyes said:

I finally figured out who Iron Jimbo is

I'm not sure which of my posts you're trying to refute, but I find your choice of argument neither honest nor convincing

[Ex-Hasbeen 6,899]

47 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Do you think this sort of situation would be the norm or the exception?

Does it really matter? Wouldn't it be better not to have to teach gun safety in schools?

[IronJimbo 866]

5 minutes ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

Does it really matter? Wouldn't it be better not to have to teach gun safety in schools?

Of course it would be.  That goes without saying

But you can't just snap your fingers and make three hundred million guns disappear

[Bored@work 3,353]

I think it's time to lock this thread

 

[Ex-Hasbeen 6,899]

 

1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

Of course it would be.  That goes without saying

But you can't just snap your fingers and make three hundred million guns disappear

No, but how about you only have 290M next year, rather than 310M.

[IronJimbo 866]

1 hour ago, Ex-Hasbeen said:

 

No, but how about you only have 290M next year, rather than 310M.

Cool.  So utopia is only 30 years away

Whose guns are you going to take away first?

[roxii 6,042]

33 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Cool.  So utopia is only 30 years away

Or a return to the Wild West, take your pick. 

[ComfortablyNumb 764]

34 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Cool.  So utopia is only 30 years away

Whose guns are you going to take away first?

Piece of piss that one Jimbo.  All the civilians with military-grade guns.  Gun death-rate halved instantly.

 

[IronJimbo 866]

1 hour ago, ComfortablyNumb said:

Piece of piss that one Jimbo.  All the civilians with military-grade guns.  Gun death-rate halved instantly.

 

I think you might need to reconsider where you get your stats from

[FatPom 4,535]

2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

Cool.  So utopia is only 30 years away

Whose guns are you going to take away first?

That's like saying that you'll only start running when you do a sub 3hr marathon.

What you really need is the decision to get off the sofa in the first place and that starts with one step.

[monkie 1,082]

17 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

No

But feel free to pretend that gun owners have no idea how to use guns if you think it supports whatever point you're trying to make

Was he even a gun owner? I haven't seen any report that he was... And from the stats I would suggest the number of accidental deaths from guns in the US indicates that at least a large proportion of them have no idea how to either keep them safe or use them.

You appear to be deploying an interesting technique here, throwing out ad hominem attacks in defence of your fabricated hypothesis and then demanding a high standard of rhetoric and statistics from anybody who suggests you might be wrong. Interesting but everybody has seen through it I believe.

For the record I am not anti-gun per se. I lived in the countryside in the UK and loads of people had shotguns and rifles, nobody ever got shot though because the weapons were limited and strictly controlled.